$35,000 Tesla Model III Is Coming In 2017

[Kaido]

See, there's your problem.... You got the wrong motor for your Mustang! The 5 liter V8 on the GT just laughs at hills. Maybe you'll get a little extra engine growl if you're climbing a steep one, but if you're losing any speed at all you're just doing it wrong

Yeah, there is a huge difference between the Ecoboost & the V8...people are always surprised when I do a pull in the 4-cylinder, but at the end of the day, it's still a 4-cylinder lol.

PS - I feel your pain with the snow now, hahaha. I've never had a car's front-end fishtail before

 

[Kaido]

I agree. Driving is a pretty serious thing. We're in cars weighing about two tons or more traveling at high speeds; it's no joke.

I made a post on Reddit that pretty much covered the idea of a "Tesla Purchasing Postmortem". In other words, now that you've purchased, received, and used your car for a while, if you had the chance to go back and change things, is there anything that you regret getting... or regret not getting? In my case, I would drop EAP in a heartbeat. Consequently, I would also not get FSD since EAP is required. The biggest reason why I got FSD is due to the absolutely huge mark-up on the feature if you purchase it post-delivery where EAP goes from $5000 to $6000 (+20%) and FSD goes from $3000 to $5000 (+%66). As a bit of a rant, I don't think there should be an increase in cost for a feature that literally does nothing. I could see them institute the price increase about a month prior to introducing the first FSD feature, but that's about it. Anyway, going back to the "postmortem", I've wondered if my initial configuration that I talked about on here (Performance with no packages) would've made me happier... or maybe if RWD with no features would've been the best option.

So I finally got a chance to test-drive a Performance AWD Model 3. Two thoughts:

1. It's ridiculously fast (0 to 60 in 3.3 seconds). Feels like you're cruising like you're in Flight of the Navigator or something. Not as blisteringly fast as Ludicrous mode on the S or X (I did 2.9 previously on the P100D X & it's amazing how much of a difference 0.4 seconds makes lol), but still really, really, ridiculously fast.

2. However...it's killed my dream to get the Performance version. That's the one I was planning on in the future, but now that I've tested-driven both, I (unfortunately) see no reason to get the Performance edition. The regular model is already crazy fast, and combined with the instant torque, I don't see where you'd really be enjoying the $11,000 upgrade long-term. I mean, sure, if money were no object, then it's a no-brainer, but for the extra cost vs. what you actually get, at least from my perception, I was pretty happy with the regular model.

So TL;DR, I'd say don't feel bad at all about not getting the Performance version. It's faster, sure, but your model is already ridiculous. Just speaking subjectively, from having driven all of the models & variations at this point (S/X/3, RWD/AWD, regular/performance), the stock model is totally bananas. I could see upgrading if you drive like a maniac or wanted the Track mode or whatever, but while the performance difference is there & is noticeable, it is also oddly marginal. Hard to explain if you haven't driven both yourself...

I also made the mistake of letting my wife test-drive the X. We're saving up for a house this year & after the test-drive she said the plan now is "smaller house, plus an X" LOL. I'm gonna have to get an extra job (or two) now

btw, do you still feel like EAP was a waste of money? Because that'd absolutely be my primary reason for getting it...soooooo nice on the highway. I drive all over the state to various customers for work, so the majority of my time is on the highway, and a lot of it is just sitting in traffic.

Regarding FSD, "Tesla warns ‘self-driving package’ buyers that activation is ‘very far away’ due to regulations". I have mixed feelings about that. First, if I ever do get a 3, I'll wait until HW3 is available. Second, I'd still rather pay for FSD up-front, not just because it saves a grand or two or whatever the incentive is, but also because it's easier to shell out that cost as part of a payment plan rolled into your car loan instead of cough up thousands in a single hit down the road. Again, this depends on your personal budget, but I think for most people, rolling it into your car payment is easier on the finances. Third, I'm really curious about the timeline & implementation of FSD, in reality. Like, I had tried auto parallel-parking before on the 3 & tried auto, uh, regular parking on my last test-drive, where it pulls into a space. It works spot-on, but it's fairly slow (faster than other automated solutions I've used, by far, but still way slower than what I could do myself), but I kind of feel like it was as fast as it could go without making your neck snap around from jerking the car around. So there's that to consider. And I would how it would really, truly handle complex situations like hand signals, two-lane roundabouts, etc., both from a software perspective & from not having a LIDAR type of system. One thing I'm especially curious about is if they'll be using their neural net to learn how you drive & merge those driving patterns into Autopilot for FSD. Based on the performance of the perpendicular parking mode, I'm wondering if it'd be smooth & quick in the city & backstreets, so as not to annoy the people behind you, or if it'd be kind of tentative & overly-cautious. I guess we'll see, in time!

Oh and also, didn't realize there's no heated steering wheel in ANY of the Model 3 configurations. That's a super bummer for me because I've had that in my last two cars; my hands get really cold & I'd rather have that feature than heated seats, lol.

 

[bigi]

^Thanks for your thoughts. I'd get one now, but holding on to Model Y. Performance is for bragging rights only. The torque of 'regular' EV motor is a bless, so 'normal' Model 3 would do.

 

[Kaido]

^Thanks for your thoughts. I'd get one now, but holding on to Model Y. Performance is for bragging rights only. The torque of 'regular' EV motor is a bless, so 'normal' Model 3 would do.

Honestly, that's probably what I'll end up doing. FSD on an AWD Model Y would be my ideal setup. I mean, an X would be my ideal setup, but $108k as configured is halfway to a decent house here, haha!

 

[Aikouka]

So TL;DR, I'd say don't feel bad at all about not getting the Performance version. It's faster, sure, but your model is already ridiculous. Just speaking subjectively, from having driven all of the models & variations at this point (S/X/3, RWD/AWD, regular/performance), the stock model is totally bananas. I could see upgrading if you drive like a maniac or wanted the Track mode or whatever, but while the performance difference is there & is noticeable, it is also oddly marginal. Hard to explain if you haven't driven both yourself...

btw, do you still feel like EAP was a waste of money? Because that'd absolutely be my primary reason for getting it...soooooo nice on the highway. I drive all over the state to various customers for work, so the majority of my time is on the highway, and a lot of it is just sitting in traffic.

Oh and also, didn't realize there's no heated steering wheel in ANY of the Model 3 configurations. That's a super bummer for me because I've had that in my last two cars; my hands get really cold & I'd rather have that feature than heated seats, lol.

I think my bummer about not getting the Performance is due to my disappointment with the technical features of the car. If I was going to spend extra, I feel like the performance features would work better all around. Although, I do agree that they'd likely not be terribly useful in most situations. Oh, and keep in mind that they did just bake the Performance Upgrade Package into the cost of the Performance Model 3. However, I would suggest getting AWD... and that's even before they gimped the RWD model with the lower range. I have a very slight hill at the end of my road, but while it may be very short... it's a fairly decent incline. Even though people laud how good the RWD is in regard to its traction, I can feel the tires slip on the RWD model if the road is damp. (It doesn't even need to be raining at the time.) The AWD model wouldn't have this issue.

And unfortunately, I am still unhappy with the technical features. Traffic-Assisted Cruise Control is still bad and has the same serious bug even after months. I wouldn't mind nearly as much if I could use either assisted or normal cruise control, but as noted, that isn't an option. AutoPark is so finicky that you'll be lucky to ever get it to activate in perpendicular spots (parallel usually works a bit better). AutoPilot still drives way too close to the outside in turns even when there's no need to do so.

But wait... there's more:

• Automatic Wipers are worse on the Tesla than they are on any other car that I've tried. They use cameras instead of IR, and they react to nothing. They often turn on when in my garage.
• I don't know if I didn't put the seats back correctly, but it sounds like there's very little sound isolation between the trunk and the cabin.
• USB playback on the radio is the worst implementation that I've ever seen, and that's not an exaggeration. It literally has to scan the entire drive every time you start the car, doesn't support playlists, and has no ability to just play all the songs. I decided to try it after having a lot of issues with the streaming service, but I just went back to streaming.
• There are times when the LTE just refuses to connect and you have no streaming or maps. There was one point where it did this and after it finally came back (it took about 5 minutes), the whole system froze when selecting streaming. Keep in mind that when the system freezes, anything not on a mechanical switch is inaccessible.
• The car seems to be rather inefficient at managing its cellular radio and such as using TeslaFi without sleep enabled drains the battery at least 7-10 miles per day.
• Why not enable sleep? Then the mobile app can literally take 1-2 MINUTES to connect to the car... if it doesn't just fail.
• The new keyfob that was released doesn't support using the car via proximity like your phone, it has to be treated like the card.

There's probably more that I'm forgetting. I really just need to make a comprehensive list at some point of all the faults that I've found so far. I do know what you mean about the lack of a steering wheel heater being a pain, but it isn't as bad due to being able to position the vents right at the steering wheel. Plus, since I no longer put the car to sleep, it's pretty easy to connect and warm it up before I even go outside.

I also made the mistake of letting my wife test-drive the X. We're saving up for a house this year & after the test-drive she said the plan now is "smaller house, plus an X" LOL. I'm gonna have to get an extra job (or two) now

They did just announce a software-limited "smaller" battery variant of the S and X.

Second, I'd still rather pay for FSD up-front, not just because it saves a grand or two or whatever the incentive is, but also because it's easier to shell out that cost as part of a payment plan rolled into your car loan instead of cough up thousands in a single hit down the road.

I thought they removed FSD as an option?

EDIT:

One thing that could be good or bad depending on your disposition and how busy you are is... you do tend to get a bit of attention with the car. Once people that I know find out that I have one (I don't usually bring it up), they'll usually just ask me about it. It's not just an electric car; to them, "it's a Tesla". Although, I think they're surprised when they ask if they can see it, and I say, "Sure, you can drive it if you want... just uh... don't ruin it!."

 

[Kaido]

I think my bummer about not getting the Performance is due to my disappointment with the technical features of the car. If I was going to spend extra, I feel like the performance features would work better all around. Although, I do agree that they'd likely not be terribly useful in most situations. Oh, and keep in mind that they did just bake the Performance Upgrade Package into the cost of the Performance Model 3. However, I would suggest getting AWD... and that's even before they gimped the RWD model with the lower range. I have a very slight hill at the end of my road, but while it may be very short... it's a fairly decent incline. Even though people laud how good the RWD is in regard to its traction, I can feel the tires slip on the RWD model if the road is damp. (It doesn't even need to be raining at the time.) The AWD model wouldn't have this issue.

And unfortunately, I am still unhappy with the technical features. Traffic-Assisted Cruise Control is still bad and has the same serious bug even after months. I wouldn't mind nearly as much if I could use either assisted or normal cruise control, but as noted, that isn't an option. AutoPark is so finicky that you'll be lucky to ever get it to activate in perpendicular spots (parallel usually works a bit better). AutoPilot still drives way too close to the outside in turns even when there's no need to do so.

But wait... there's more:

• Automatic Wipers are worse on the Tesla than they are on any other car that I've tried. They use cameras instead of IR, and they react to nothing. They often turn on when in my garage.
• I don't know if I didn't put the seats back correctly, but it sounds like there's very little sound isolation between the trunk and the cabin.
• USB playback on the radio is the worst implementation that I've ever seen, and that's not an exaggeration. It literally has to scan the entire drive every time you start the car, doesn't support playlists, and has no ability to just play all the songs. I decided to try it after having a lot of issues with the streaming service, but I just went back to streaming.
• There are times when the LTE just refuses to connect and you have no streaming or maps. There was one point where it did this and after it finally came back (it took about 5 minutes), the whole system froze when selecting streaming. Keep in mind that when the system freezes, anything not on a mechanical switch is inaccessible.
• The car seems to be rather inefficient at managing its cellular radio and such as using TeslaFi without sleep enabled drains the battery at least 7-10 miles per day.
• Why not enable sleep? Then the mobile app can literally take 1-2 MINUTES to connect to the car... if it doesn't just fail.
• The new keyfob that was released doesn't support using the car via proximity like your phone, it has to be treated like the card.

There's probably more that I'm forgetting. I really just need to make a comprehensive list at some point of all the faults that I've found so far. I do know what you mean about the lack of a steering wheel heater being a pain, but it isn't as bad due to being able to position the vents right at the steering wheel. Plus, since I no longer put the car to sleep, it's pretty easy to connect and warm it up before I even go outside.



They did just announce a software-limited "smaller" battery variant of the S and X.



I thought they removed FSD as an option?

EDIT:

One thing that could be good or bad depending on your disposition and how busy you are is... you do tend to get a bit of attention with the car. Once people that I know find out that I have one (I don't usually bring it up), they'll usually just ask me about it. It's not just an electric car; to them, "it's a Tesla". Although, I think they're surprised when they ask if they can see it, and I say, "Sure, you can drive it if you want... just uh... don't ruin it!."

Dang, sounds like a lot of features are kind of half-baked!

I suspect rolling out full-self driving is going to take a LOT longer than Elon thinks it's going to. I also think they should have been focused on developing LIDAR more. They have a new, smaller version of LIDAR that can pick up crap on the road, for example, even in different conditions. I know Musk has faith, but based on the current sensor & camera suite, even with Hardware 3, I'm really curious about how they're going to achieve FSD.

Side note, FSD is available as an off-menu item, if you request it. Still available at a discount, they just don't advertise it, as they're trying to calibrate people's expectations.

I mean, Nissan ProPilot II is pretty good, like on the new Leaf. My wife's car has Eyesight 2.0 or whatever, which is TACC + active lane-keep assist (which is the ping-pong one, not the active-centering assist). It seems like, in practice, and aside from the blinker-to-automatically-switch-lanes feature in the Tesla's, those dumber versions vs. EAP kind of overlap at the present time.

Speaking of auto-wipers, iirc somewhere in this sub-forum said that when Honda first came out with rain-sensing wipers, it'd get all goofed up when they want through the car wash & turn on because it thought it was raining, haha!

Yeah, no one wants to talk to you about your Leaf or your Bolt, but heck, a Tesla? Haha! I've experienced a bit of the same with my Mustang. I mean, Mustangs are pretty common cars, but I have a unique color (has a tinted clearcoat which does a cool color-shift effect IRL), and I actually get a lot of compliments from women about it, not guys, surprisingly - "I loooooooove the color of your car!". If only I had been this popular in high school, lol.

I don't know why they don't allow Apple CarPlay (or Android Auto) on their interface. I LOVE CarPlay. My car has it & when I visit my mom & borrow her car, her car has it, and I don't even have to pair up my phone - I just plug the cable in & my entire, familiar, easy-to-use interface pops right up! My wife's car does NOT have it & it annoys me, lol.

Honestly I feel like the Subaru AWD system has an edge over the Tesla. I skidded around a bit when I was goosing it around corners going too fast on the test drive with the Performance AWD model. Then again, aside from some winter donuts & drifting in my wife's Forester, I guess I've never really gunned it around corners, so maybe that's not a fair comparison, lol.

So do you think you'll be keeping it long-term? Do you like it overall, despite the flaws, or are they super annoying? I couldn't get over my Renegade's problems...it would have been easier to live with something like engine problems than all of the nutty little annoying non-stop problems that happened on a near-daily basis.

 

[rstrohkirch]

However, I would suggest getting AWD... and that's even before they gimped the RWD model with the lower range. I have a very slight hill at the end of my road, but while it may be very short... it's a fairly decent incline. Even though people laud how good the RWD is in regard to its traction, I can feel the tires slip on the RWD model if the road is damp. (It doesn't even need to be raining at the time.) The AWD model wouldn't have this issue.

While I do agree on AWD over RWD in a sedan like this, this particular example sounds more like a tire problem. Looking up the stock tires and the sport wheel without the performance package has a shitty tire. The aero wheel has an OK tire. You get the exact same problem in trucks when the OEM tires are poor performers.

Dang, sounds like a lot of features are kind of half-baked!
Honestly I feel like the Subaru AWD system has an edge over the Tesla. I skidded around a bit when I was goosing it around corners going too fast on the test drive with the Performance AWD model. Then again, aside from some winter donuts & drifting in my wife's Forester, I guess I've never really gunned it around corners, so maybe that's not a fair comparison, lol.

The vehicle you tested has over twice the horsepower and torque of the Forester your comparing it to. It also has smaller tires than a vehicle in it's performance bracket should have. It's only sitting on 235 width tires. A vehicle with almost 500hp should really be using wider tires.

 

[Kaido]

The vehicle you tested has over twice the horsepower and torque of the Forester your comparing it to. It also has smaller tires than a vehicle in it's performance bracket should have. It's only sitting on 235 width tires. A vehicle with almost 500hp should really be using wider tires.

Yeaaaaaah....170hp/174 lb-ft on the Forester vs. 450hp/471 lb-ft on the Model 3 Performance version, lol.

I've driven the X a couple times now & boy does that feel solid! That has either 255 or 265 options, I think (plus more weight...over 5,000 pounds!). Plus 588hp/920 lb-ft, lol.

 

[Aikouka]

While I do agree on AWD over RWD in a sedan like this, this particular example sounds more like a tire problem. Looking up the stock tires and the sport wheel without the performance package has a shitty tire. The aero wheel has an OK tire. You get the exact same problem in trucks when the OEM tires are poor performers.

I'd normally consider the tire too, but the thing is... this isn't my first time with that particular model of tire. My Ford Fusion (FWD) and Ford Taurus (AWD) both had issues with their original Continental tires slipping in that same spot. Although, the Fusion was definitely a lot worse than the Taurus was, which isn't a huge surprise. (The Taurus also has a weight advantage.) However, after running over a carriage bolt, I ended up replacing some tires with the Michelin Primacy MXM4, and I never had a problem in that same spot -- even while it was raining. That's part of the reason why I wanted to go with the 18" wheels as I already knew that tire, and the 19s use Continental tires, which I have not had a good experience with . Albeit, I've never used their DWS line, which is usually given good praise for its inclement weather capability.

Anyway, long story short, that's why I'm not focusing on the tires much. It's not too surprising that the front wheels would have a little bit of a grip problem in an RWD car, but of course, people talked a lot about the car even doing well in the snow with some snow tires. (That latter bit probably matters quite a lot there.)

Yeaaaaaah....170hp/174 lb-ft on the Forester vs. 450hp/471 lb-ft on the Model 3 Performance version, lol.

I've driven the X a couple times now & boy does that feel solid! That has either 255 or 265 options, I think (plus more weight...over 5,000 pounds!). Plus 588hp/920 lb-ft, lol.

One interesting thing to consider is a route that my friend took. The reason why he went with the X is that its weight puts it into a class of vehicle that's allowed for a business tax exemption. He does some freelance work, and as long as the taxes for the business are substantial enough, the price of the car can be used against that in increments. The other Tesla cars do not weigh enough to do this.

But you know one odd issue that I have with the X? I've got an overall wide frame, and if I sit in the middle row, my arm is usually squished up against the door. Oh, and if you decide to get the back row, keep in mind that it's pretty much useless for passengers apart from small children. It's WAY too cramped for an adult back there... and that comes from watching some try to use it. It makes matters worse that Tesla uses hard backs on the seats, which means if your knees are hitting the seat back, there's no give.

 

[Kaido]

Polestar 2 electric revealed:

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/02/27/polestar-2-fastback-ev-revealed-geneva-h388v9kj/

* $63k launch price
* 0 to 60 in "under 5 seconds" (408 horsepower & 487 lb-ft torque)
* 275-mile range
* AWD

For reference, the Model 3 Performance edition:

* $65.9k with Enhanced Autopilot
* 0 to 60 in 3.3 seconds
* 310-mile range
* AWD

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would want the Polestar, other than because you "like the design":

* No self-driving
* Less range
* Less performance
* No high-speed Supercharger network available across the country
* Tesla's vegan leather seats are ridiculously comfortable

I love Volvos, and think the Polestar 2 looks cool, but aside from wanting the name or that specific design, you're losing out on so much if you buy a Volvo EV...

 

[rstrohkirch]

I can see the self driving and charging network as being a big issue for some people. The performance and range not so much. This vehicle will have a 0-60 of 4 seconds easy. The similar sized s60 is doing under 4.5 with their slower hybrid engine. The range difference isn't large enough to cause issues with most people. The interior in the Volvo is going to be a set up over the 3. The seats Volvo puts in with their luxury package that have heat/cool/massage are fantastic. Then there is, as you mentioned, the exterior of the vehicle which plays a bigger part then almost anything to a lot of people.

 

[Kaido]

I can see the self driving and charging network as being a big issue for some people. The performance and range not so much. This vehicle will have a 0-60 of 4 seconds easy. The similar sized s60 is doing under 4.5 with their slower hybrid engine. The range difference isn't large enough to cause issues with most people. The interior in the Volvo is going to be a set up over the 3. The seats Volvo puts in with their luxury package that have heat/cool/massage are fantastic. Then there is, as you mentioned, the exterior of the vehicle which plays a bigger part then almost anything to a lot of people.

Yeah, Volvo's have always had fantastic interiors...although I think the 3's seats are the most comfortable I've ever sat in. I dunno how that vegan leather works, but it's ridiculously nice lol. Massage seats sound pretty awesome, however...

 

[Kaido]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericxlmu/2014/07/15/chinas-qihoo-hacks-a-tesla-model-s/

nice, but I probably wont get the 1st year one. i'll wait till 2018/2019.

or wait till 2nd gen in 2020?

The $35,000 Model 3 is now available:

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/02/28/tesla-announces-35-000-model-3-plans-to-close-most-physical-st/

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-35k-model-3-standard-range-new-interior-options/

Configurator:

https://3.tesla.com/model3/design?#battery

* $35,000
* 220-mile range
* 0 to 60 in 5.6 seconds

Also:

* Enhanced Autopilot is now $3,000
* Full self-driving is now $5,000 (available later this year)

 

[Kaido]

Couple other changes:

1. Long-range RWD is now 325 miles
2. Performance AWD is now 0 to 60 in 3.2 seconds

A fully-loaded Model 3 is now $69.5k:

* Performance AWD
* Red-multi-coat ($2,500)
* Performance upgrade
* White interior ($1,000)
* Autopilot ($3,000)
* Full-self driving ($5,000)

$70k seems fairly reasonable for an EV with full self-driving, a 0 to 60 time of 3.2 seconds (superclass-class acceleration), and a range of 310 miles.

 

[teejee]

Polestar 2 electric revealed:

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/02/27/polestar-2-fastback-ev-revealed-geneva-h388v9kj/

* $63k launch price
* 0 to 60 in "under 5 seconds" (408 horsepower & 487 lb-ft torque)
* 275-mile range
* AWD

For reference, the Model 3 Performance edition:

* $65.9k with Enhanced Autopilot
* 0 to 60 in 3.3 seconds
* 310-mile range
* AWD

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would want the Polestar, other than because you "like the design":

* No self-driving
* Less range
* Less performance
* No high-speed Supercharger network available across the country
* Tesla's vegan leather seats are ridiculously comfortable

I love Volvos, and think the Polestar 2 looks cool, but aside from wanting the name or that specific design, you're losing out on so much if you buy a Volvo EV...

There is no self-driving in Tesla, just enhanced auto-pilot that is a SAE level 2 function. This means the Tesla system is allowed to fail whenever it likes without any responsibility on Tesla.

Polestar will at least have Volvos Pilot Assist as standard. That is a less advanced system from technical point of view compared to Tesla but in my opinion is better since it doesn't give a false view of the capabilities. Volvos system (especially latest 2018 iteration) is a great support on highways and in queues.
Teslas system on the other hands is a pretty scary system since it gives the feeling of being a autonomous driving car but in reality it isn't even close.

I've actually evaluated both system latest this week (Tesla model S and XC40).

 

[Kaido]

There is no self-driving in Tesla, just enhanced auto-pilot that is a SAE level 2 function. This means the Tesla system is allowed to fail whenever it likes without any responsibility on Tesla.

Polestar will at least have Volvos Pilot Assist as standard. That is a less advanced system from technical point of view compared to Tesla but in my opinion is better since it doesn't give a false view of the capabilities. Volvos system (especially latest 2018 iteration) is a great support on highways and in queues.
Teslas system on the other hands is a pretty scary system since it gives the feeling of being a autonomous driving car but in reality it isn't even close.

I've actually evaluated both system latest this week (Tesla model S and XC40).

How did you like the XC40? Love the design!

 

[Kaido]

On a tangent:

 

[teejee]

How did you like the XC40? Love the design!

I like it but I'm not a SUV-person really. I have just ordered a new V60 personally.
XC40 is great if you like the size and type of car. It is less of a drivers car compared to for example BMW X3, but it has great comfort and the interior is terrific.

 

[rstrohkirch]

Funny you should say that. The x3 m40i and xc60/90 are on my short list. Have to make a decision later this year. I do like the v90 but no factory installed tow hitch is annoying. I don't like doing aftermarket options.

 

[KentState]

Funny you should say that. The x3 m40i and xc60/90 are on my short list. Have to make a decision later this year. I do like the v90 but no factory installed tow hitch is annoying. I don't like doing aftermarket options.

I went with an M40i last year. Love the car.

 

[rstrohkirch]

Nice =]

I'll probably do another round of test drives in the summer and dump the fpace by fall. I get this feeling it'll probably be the 40i but we'll see.

 

[KentState]

Nice =]

I'll probably do another round of test drives in the summer and dump the fpace by fall. I get this feeling it'll probably be the 40i but we'll see.

Feel free to reach out before you buy. I'll do my best Doug DeMuro impression and tell you about all the quirks and features or any warranty issues.

 

[manly]

The $35,000 Model 3 is now available:

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/02/28/tesla-announces-35-000-model-3-plans-to-close-most-physical-st/

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-35k-model-3-standard-range-new-interior-options/

Configurator:

https://3.tesla.com/model3/design?#battery

* $35,000
* 220-mile range
* 0 to 60 in 5.6 seconds

Also:

* Enhanced Autopilot is now $3,000
* Full self-driving is now $5,000 (available later this year)

I'm a Tesla bear but I think "Standard Range Plus" is the one to get (for those of us on a budget). Autopilot is more or less a no-brainer IMO, and I suspect that for $5k (or $7k later), I would never pay for FSD since I don't expect level 5 automation to arrive for at least five years.

I'm very early in the process, and cross shopping against a few ICE vehicles (no test drives as of yet). For me, the two biggest concerns (there could be more) are:

1. Build quality/QC
2. Getting HW3 included (although probably a moot point without FSD)

The latest news is puzzling. I've said for a while that the likely end game for Tesla is to be purchased by Toyota (or perhaps GM) when the next recession hits. There have been whispers that the TM3 demand curve crashed in January, but China/EU were supposed to at least keep high-margin sales going for this and next quarter.

So opening up the floodgates now with the $35k model is troubling. I think it was back in November that Elon suggested the cost of production is several thousand dollars higher than the $35k sale price. Let's say three months after that comment, they can now break even on the $35k base model. That doesn't really seem like a rational decision to me. They are basically shutting down retail, discounting their entire line-up, and slashing some jobs. Yes, all those moves helps improve net profit margins but what good will selling tens (or hundreds) of thousands of vehicles in 2019 at 0 net profit do for the company?

Sure, generating free cash flow is nice, they have to keep the production lines running and if they attach EAP to a majority of sales, at least that is essentially pure profit. Perhaps desperate times calls for desperate measures.

 

[Kaido]

Feel free to reach out before you buy. I'll do my best Doug DeMuro impression and tell you about all the quirks and features or any warranty issues.

Obligatory Doug DeMuro's the type of guy to join a forum & offer assistance to someone looking to buy

 

[Kaido]

I'm a Tesla bear but I think "Standard Range Plus" is the one to get (for those of us on a budget). Autopilot is more or less a no-brainer IMO, and I suspect that for $5k (or $7k later), I would never pay for FSD since I don't expect level 5 automation to arrive for at least five years.

I'm very early in the process, and cross shopping against a few ICE vehicles (no test drives as of yet). For me, the two biggest concerns (there could be more) are:

1. Build quality/QC
2. Getting HW3 included (although probably a moot point without FSD)

The latest news is puzzling. I've said for a while that the likely end game for Tesla is to be purchased by Toyota (or perhaps GM) when the next recession hits. There have been whispers that the TM3 demand curve crashed in January, but China/EU were supposed to at least keep high-margin sales going for this and next quarter.

So opening up the floodgates now with the $35k model is troubling. I think it was back in November that Elon suggested the cost of production is several thousand dollars higher than the $35k sale price. Let's say three months after that comment, they can now break even on the $35k base model. That doesn't really seem like a rational decision to me. They are basically shutting down retail, discounting their entire line-up, and slashing some jobs. Yes, all those moves helps improve net profit margins but what good will selling tens (or hundreds) of thousands of vehicles in 2019 at 0 net profit do for the company?

Sure, generating free cash flow is nice, they have to keep the production lines running and if they attach EAP to a majority of sales, at least that is essentially pure profit. Perhaps desperate times calls for desperate measures.

I'm trying to figure out if the Amazon direct-sales model is going to work. They have test-drive events every few months in my area (my state is one of the few where you can't buy a Tesla yet, you have to buy it out-of-state) & I finally convinced my wife to go to one, which ended up changing her mind about the car - about Tesla, about autopilot, about electric vehicles. I've been a Tesla fan for years, but she, as a non-nerd, didn't "get it" until she got a hands-on driving experience & was able to ask the Tesla employee a bunch of questions. So I definitely think there is some value for non-enthusiasts in terms of getting some hands-on time with the car & being able to ask a knowledge person questions to get a better idea about the vehicle & get more comfortable with it.

I think Tesla will always have a market for people who are excited about new things & actively research their options, but I remember reading some dealership history & learning about how car-buying is a fairly emotional decision, not so much a logical one. Right now, Tesla does zero advertising & will now have zero dealerships, so I'm interested to see how that is going to work out for them long-term.

The availability of a $35k base-model car is pretty appealing, but $35k is still out of reach for a huge amount of people. Not only that, but self-driving is, imo, the main seller of the car...there's plenty of other electric vehicles on the road, but none that offer quite what Tesla has (side note, they just passed 10 billion miles driven on Autopilot & fed into their neural-net AI system), but in order to get that, you have to spend an additional $8,000, bringing the price up to $43k for the car.

I think that a $25k electric car with FSD would be a pretty appealing price-point, but that's years away (as is actual, hands-off FSD). A lot of people I talk to are interested in electric and are very interested in self-driving, but even the $35k base price is a showstopper for a lot of people right off the bat. I think they'll definitely gain some traction later this year as they release the babysitting-required version of FSD, but until the price comes down, I don't think it will really be a mass-market vehicle.

I'm really interested in the Model Y...definitely hoping to see an official announcement later this month! I figure it will probably be two years until they start making the Y (although the latest "reports" say that it will start production in 2020 & will be built on the 3's frame instead of an entirely new platform), then maybe another two years before they get all the kinks worked out (the recent Consumer Reports article detailed QC issues & bugs on the 3 - cracked rear windshields in the cold, screens freezing, body panel gaps, paint issues, and so on).

I just bought a stick-shift Ecoboost Mustang last year, which I plan on both keeping forever & also having it be my last ICE vehicle, especially as they don't make many cars with manual transmissions anymore (the upcoming 700+ HP Mustang GT500 is automatic-only, because human reaction time is now the slowest part of the driventrain, lol). My plan is to finish paying it off over the next four years & then pick up an AWD Y with HW3 & FSD. Hopefully by then it will be a fairly bug-free machine & hopefully have real self-driving available. That would be a killer combo for me...stick-shift ICE for summer & AWD FSD for winter & trips! #Team2023 lol