$35,000 Tesla Model III Is Coming In 2017

[bigi]

noob here, if you're charging your vehicle unattended, whats stopping the next guy from driving up and removing the plug from your car and plugging it into his, especially if you're at one of the paying charge stations?

Tesla cars lock the plug.

 

[KentState]

Tesla cars lock the plug.

I thought it also had a data connection since it requires a license to use?

 

[KentState]

Unless the Y is a complete dud, I think I will put a deposit down ASAP to get in line. The lease on my BMW will be up in early '21 and this seems like a good replacement and hopefully in the same price range. The idea of something between a 3 and X is very appealing.

 

[Aikouka]

Tesla cars lock the plug.

But doesn't that only work for Tesla chargers? With a J1772 charger, which is common for the free chargers that you encounter, I have to use the adapter, which is what actually goes into the car. Theoretically, nothing stops someone from removing the J1772 charger from the adapter. At least the ones that I've seen use a pretty simple clip mechanism.

 

[Zorba]

There is no self-driving in Tesla, just enhanced auto-pilot that is a SAE level 2 function. This means the Tesla system is allowed to fail whenever it likes without any responsibility on Tesla.

Polestar will at least have Volvos Pilot Assist as standard. That is a less advanced system from technical point of view compared to Tesla but in my opinion is better since it doesn't give a false view of the capabilities. Volvos system (especially latest 2018 iteration) is a great support on highways and in queues.
Teslas system on the other hands is a pretty scary system since it gives the feeling of being a autonomous driving car but in reality it isn't even close.

I've actually evaluated both system latest this week (Tesla model S and XC40).

I rented a XC60 for a week in Orlando. I liked the car, but found the interface pretty annoying. So I didn't really try anything out. I was at Disney so I didn't really focus on messing with it much either. I only used cruise once and though adaptive cruise control was on, until I got very close to the car in front of me, and decided it wasn't.

About 10-15 years ago the FAA started to get concerned that small planes were getting so many new electronics that people could no longer switch from plane to plane safely without having to learn the new avionics. I think we are starting to get to that point with some cars.

 

[Kaido]

Unless the Y is a complete dud, I think I will put a deposit down ASAP to get in line. The lease on my BMW will be up in early '21 and this seems like a good replacement and hopefully in the same price range. The idea of something between a 3 and X is very appealing.

$2,500 deposit, take delivery in Fall 2020 for everything but the standard-range model:

https://www.tesla.com/modely/design#battery

 

[teejee]

I rented a XC60 for a week in Orlando. I liked the car, but found the interface pretty annoying. So I didn't really try anything out. I was at Disney so I didn't really focus on messing with it much either. I only used cruise once and though adaptive cruise control was on, until I got very close to the car in front of me, and decided it wasn't.

About 10-15 years ago the FAA started to get concerned that small planes were getting so many new electronics that people could no longer switch from plane to plane safely without having to learn the new avionics. I think we are starting to get to that point with some cars.

I definately agree that it takes some time to get used to the more advanced features in a modern car. Adaptive cruise control is something I really like myself but there is a lot of things a driver should know about such function. And how many drivers read the manual...?

 

[KentState]

$2,500 deposit, take delivery in Fall 2020 for everything but the standard-range model:

https://www.tesla.com/modely/design#battery

Ordered the Performance model, grey, black interior, auto pilot and full self driving. Should hopefully land just before my lease is up.

 

[ultimatebob]

Ordered the Performance model, grey, black interior, auto pilot and full self driving. Should hopefully land just before my lease is up.

Ooh, can we place bets on its delivery date? I'm going for March 2021.

 

[Kaido]

Ordered the Performance model, grey, black interior, auto pilot and full self driving. Should hopefully land just before my lease is up.

I'll probably go either blue or gray on mine & then do Autoflex Express (latest-gen peelable paint) for a light PPF & color change. I'm usually not a fan of crazy colors or color-shift paints, but I think the new ZGA Hypershift Pearl would make the Y look super incredible with all of the curves:

 

[Aikouka]

Tesla worked on my car this morning. They ended up having to replace some sort of steering wheel module that was causing my turn signal problems. Apparently, this issue was a known problem as the guy told me that the part he was going to put in was a newer revision. I can report that my turn signal does, in fact, turn off normally now. The only bad thing is that one bug was that turning off a persistent signal required me to push the stick up and not always in the opposite direction. Now, as you'd expect, I have to push it in the opposite direction to turn it off, and I keep messing it up with right-hand turns.

The person also took a look at the logs and saw that there were entries for calibration on the day when my features finally came back. He did note that the car will normally warn you about it, but that those sort of things can change from firmware to firmware.

 

[Kaido]

The only bad thing is that one bug was that turning off a persistent signal required me to push the stick up and not always in the opposite direction. Now, as you'd expect, I have to push it in the opposite direction to turn it off, and I keep messing it up with right-hand turns.

I hope they make that optional in a future software update, that's really annoying!

My buddy ended up springing for Autopilot, as there's a price hike coming Monday. So he's getting a black "Standard Plus" Model 3 with Autopilot & the 19" rims. 0 to 60 in 5.3 seconds, pretty nice for a base-ish car!

 

[Kaido]

I have 4 items on my Model 3 wishlist:

1. Hardware #3 (the new chip for FSD)

2. Heated steering wheel (seriously, not available on ANY of the 3 models?!)

3. Air suspension

4. Ludicrous mode

Maybe the Y will have that stuff...

 

[Aikouka]

I hope they make that optional in a future software update, that's really annoying!

My buddy ended up springing for Autopilot, as there's a price hike coming Monday. So he's getting a black "Standard Plus" Model 3 with Autopilot & the 19" rims. 0 to 60 in 5.3 seconds, pretty nice for a base-ish car!

Hm, actually, it looks like you can press it in any direction and it turns off.

Yeah, that's always the awkward part of buying a Tesla. Part of the reason why I paid for FSD is that at purchasing, it cost me $3k, but if I wanted to buy it later, it would've cost me $5k -- an increase of $2k or 66%. (Enhanced AutoPilot was $5k to $6k, or only a 20% increase.) Although, amusingly enough, in what most will learn is typical awkward, Tesla fashion, if I would've waited for this weird, price change, I could've actually paid only $2k for it! That's the thing about Tesla. There's really no such thing as model years, and they'll just change stuff on a whim, which is unlike most automakers that wait about five years per upgrade (the typical car loan length). This means that you can't really guarantee that you're buying what'll be the best for a certain, usually guessable number of years.

On that note, I'd like to see more of the Model Y's interior to see if Tesla made any changes that could eventually come down to the Model 3. Although, after a bit of perusing, it looks like the interior -- with the exception of the third row -- is pretty much the same.

EDIT:

I have 4 items on my Model 3 wishlist:

1. Hardware #3 (the new chip for FSD)

2. Heated steering wheel (seriously, not available on ANY of the 3 models?!)

3. Air suspension

4. Ludicrous mode

Maybe the Y will have that stuff...

Well, if you have FSD, you'll get #1 for free... when it's available. #2 does kind of baffle me. It's one of the things that I'm hoping they bring to the 3 in a refresh; however, you can set the air to blow on the steering wheel. Unlike ICE-powered vehicles, there is no waiting for the engine to warm up to warm up the heater core. So, it does work fairly well at keeping your hands warm. Although, the car can get warm in the sun, and so when it's a little cool out but sunny, your car may then choose to blow cool air right onto your hands because the cabin is too warm.

You'll likely never see #3 because it's too pricey for the Model 3. I barely even see used Model S cars with that option. As for #4, honestly... it's kind of a useless mode. This is just my opinion, but I bet you Model S owners would rather trade Ludicrous Mode for Track Mode, which only the Model 3 has. The thing about Ludicrous Mode is that it requires your batteries at a certain temperature to even use it, and it puts extra strain on the entire electrical and drive systems.

 

[JEDI]

no magnetic shocks?
ie: sensors see a pothole ahead, keeps tire from dropping thus you just glide over the pothole

 

[NutBucket]

Magnetic ride control is a bigger deal than air suspension. GM is smart to offer it in so many vehicles.

 

[manly]

I hope they make that optional in a future software update, that's really annoying!

My buddy ended up springing for Autopilot, as there's a price hike coming Monday. So he's getting a black "Standard Plus" Model 3 with Autopilot & the 19" rims. 0 to 60 in 5.3 seconds, pretty nice for a base-ish car!

That's the config to get if you don't need greater range or AWD. They just dropped the mid-range config yesterday!

Autopilot is very confusing. It appears they dropped it to $3k, but it's no longer "Extended." Some of the EAP features were shifted to FSD (which got a big price hike). Somebody at Tesla thought this makes "logical" sense, but Elon last week tweeted that it was a botched pricing move that will be reverted. But what does that mean for someone who bought non-Extended Autopilot?

 

[JEDI]

That's the config to get if you don't need greater range or AWD. They just dropped the mid-range config yesterday!

can you change it yourself from greater range, awd, or mid range configs?
or Tesla has to do it each time?

 

[Aikouka]

That's the config to get if you don't need greater range or AWD. They just dropped the mid-range config yesterday!

Autopilot is very confusing. It appears they dropped it to $3k, but it's no longer "Extended." Some of the EAP features were shifted to FSD (which got a big price hike). Somebody at Tesla thought this makes "logical" sense, but Elon last week tweeted that it was a botched pricing move that will be reverted. But what does that mean for someone who bought non-Extended Autopilot?

They likely moved items from Enhanced AutoPilot to Full-Self Driving to make it so FSD wasn't simply buying into vaporware. When I bought FSD, it was literally just buying into a promise of future features; however, if someone buys into it now, they actually get something... and the future promise of features.

As for the pricing snafu, I'm pretty sure he was talking about the heavily discounted prices for existing users. For example, when I ordered FSD, it was $3000 pre-delivery and $5000 post-delivery. After the feature shuffle, Tesla was only charging existing owners $2000 post-delivery. If I recall, that was changed today.

 

[manly]

They likely moved items from Enhanced AutoPilot to Full-Self Driving to make it so FSD wasn't simply buying into vaporware. When I bought FSD, it was literally just buying into a promise of future features; however, if someone buys into it now, they actually get something... and the future promise of features.

As for the pricing snafu, I'm pretty sure he was talking about the heavily discounted prices for existing users. For example, when I ordered FSD, it was $3000 pre-delivery and $5000 post-delivery. After the feature shuffle, Tesla was only charging existing owners $2000 post-delivery. If I recall, that was changed today.

Ahh OK so that was announced here:
https://www.tesla.com/blog/upgrading-autopilot-and-full-self-driving-capability

The root problem is they shifted features around, effecting price changes. It's hard to know the true motivation but it seems logical the top reasons are to make FSD seem more compelling by end of 2019 (as opposed to vaporware), and perhaps to increase the current sales (attachment rate) of Autopilot. However reasonable that may seem, it violates the KISS principle. Now there's confusion due to different combinations of prices, and of features.

According to Wikipedia, Extended doesn't mean anything, it just refers to Autopilot HW2.

Supposedly they are ready to roll out Navigate on Autopilot and Enhanced Summon:
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-nav...nfirmation-enhanced-summon-release-elon-musk/

But who gets it exactly? If you have EAP from before 3/1, you should get both these features?
But on 3/1 or later ordered vehicles, you must have AP+FSD?

 

[Aikouka]

The root problem is they shifted features around, effecting price changes. It's hard to know the true motivation but it seems logical the top reasons are to make FSD seem more compelling by end of 2019 (as opposed to vaporware), and perhaps to increase the current sales (attachment rate) of Autopilot. However reasonable that may seem, it violates the KISS principle. Now there's confusion due to different combinations of prices, and of features.

All I can say is... welcome to Tesla. Tesla can be one of the most confusing and/or frustrating companies to follow in regard to their cars due to not following a "standard" upgrade cadence and having fairly fluid pricing. A lot of this is due to them entering an entrenched market and especially how they plan to do so while ignoring some common conventions of car sales such as dealerships. Of course, the growing pains of trying to create efficient manufacturing facilities for multiple cars doesn't help much.

According to Wikipedia, Extended doesn't mean anything, it just refers to Autopilot HW2.

Don't forget that there's also a HW2.5!

Supposedly they are ready to roll out Navigate on Autopilot and Enhanced Summon:
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-nav...nfirmation-enhanced-summon-release-elon-musk/

But who gets it exactly? If you have EAP from before 3/1, you should get both these features?
But on 3/1 or later ordered vehicles, you must have AP+FSD?

I believe your assertion is correct. I have Navigate on Autopilot and Summon as part of Enhanced Autopilot, which is the original $5000 package. So, I should not require FSD to get the upgrades. (Although, I have FSD anyway.) Both of these features have been moved to Full Self Driving, so you would need AP+FSD with the new feature packaging to get them.

 

[Kaido]

All I can say is... welcome to Tesla. Tesla can be one of the most confusing and/or frustrating companies to follow in regard to their cars due to not following a "standard" upgrade cadence and having fairly fluid pricing. A lot of this is due to them entering an entrenched market and especially how they plan to do so while ignoring some common conventions of car sales such as dealerships. Of course, the growing pains of trying to create efficient manufacturing facilities for multiple cars doesn't help much.

I think they're going to go through 2 more phases:

1. Selling cars with or without FSD
2. Selling cars only with FSD

Options will get streamlined & pricing will come down, in due time. Right now, they need money & are are still developing everything. Here's how I see it going down:

1. Model S & X refresh (longer range, maybe new interior to match the 3)
2. Semi-truck release (2020)
3. Roadster 2.0 release (2020)
4. Model Y release (2020)
5. Truck release
6. Hopefully an official RV platform based on the Semi-truck
7. Model X refresh, turning it into what the Model Y was supposed to be - get rid of the Falcon doors & bigger than the 3 platform
8. Hands-free FSD

The Model Y wasn't supposed to be "shoehorned" into the Model 3 platform, and was supposed to ditch that platform for a variety of reasons:

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/tesla-model-y-sort

What we do know, and what Musk confirmed, is that the Model Y won’t be derived from the Model 3 platform, but instead get its own unique architecture. “I think actually, we made a mistake in trying to derive the Model X from the Model S platform,” Musk said. “It would have been better to design an SUV the way an SUV should be designed.

“Design a sedan the way a sedan should be designed. Otherwise you’re just trying to shoehorn in something that doesn’t make sense,” he added.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/2/1...elon-musk-production-manufacturing-revolution

Previously, Musk said he planned to ditch the 12-volt battery architecture used in Tesla’s other vehicles, which could dramatically reduce the length of electric wiring needed and simplify the production process. Less wiring means more automation in the production process, and Musk has said he plans to introduce more robots into Tesla’s production line.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-y-ditch-12-volt-battery-95-less-wiring-model-3/

“The Model Y will be on a different platform than the Model 3. Musk said that the car will be quite different, inside, in part because Tesla is learning how to make cars more efficiently. “The wiring harness on Model S is about 3 kilometers in length,” he said. “The wire harness on Model 3 is 1.5 kilometers in length. The wiring harness on Model Y will be 100 meters. And that’s a redundant wiring harness.”

I'm guessing not much of that is actually going to make it into the Model Y, as we already now it's based on the Model 3 & is basically just a Model 3 "hatchback". So my guess is that the X's redesign will cover what the Y was supposed to be, as well as subtracting the wing-doors from the current X. So I think we'll get an interior update, along with a longer range first, and then get a full redesign down the road.

 

[Kaido]

Ahh OK so that was announced here:
https://www.tesla.com/blog/upgrading-autopilot-and-full-self-driving-capability

The root problem is they shifted features around, effecting price changes. It's hard to know the true motivation but it seems logical the top reasons are to make FSD seem more compelling by end of 2019 (as opposed to vaporware), and perhaps to increase the current sales (attachment rate) of Autopilot. However reasonable that may seem, it violates the KISS principle. Now there's confusion due to different combinations of prices, and of features.

According to Wikipedia, Extended doesn't mean anything, it just refers to Autopilot HW2.

Supposedly they are ready to roll out Navigate on Autopilot and Enhanced Summon:
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-nav...nfirmation-enhanced-summon-release-elon-musk/

But who gets it exactly? If you have EAP from before 3/1, you should get both these features?
But on 3/1 or later ordered vehicles, you must have AP+FSD?

Yeah, my buddy ended up springing for Autopilot on his Model 3 Standard "Plus" order, but was disappointed to learn that the auto-lane-change feature is only for FSD. He doesn't want to spring for FSD because he's planning on trading it in for a Y in a year or two.

 

[manly]

can you change it yourself from greater range, awd, or mid range configs?
or Tesla has to do it each time?

Not sure what you're asking. Tesla's ordering is fairly straightforward; there are relatively few options to choose from. But you cannot mix and match single options a la carte (say you wanted just premium audio). IIRC there used to be millions of combinations of Model S possible in their online configurator. To make manufacturing more efficient, they have never given that many combinations with the Model 3. And they removed some combinations from Model S a year or two ago.

This is all logical, but it used to be possible for a BMW enthusiast to custom build his car to order with many discrete options, many of which are quite lucrative for BMW to upsell. You can still option their cars, but they now bundle a lot of options together in very expensive packages. Less consumer choice, but higher overall price. Most car buyers aren't even aware, and they just buy whatever happens to be on a dealer's lot in their local market.

A lot of jaws have dropped with the new 3 series (G20) configurator. The compact sports sedan is an extremely crowded segment (which arguably includes the mid-size TM3), and BMW may be pricing themselves to fail. This is after they've made some value-subtracted moves in recent years such as making their leases less attractive, and reducing included maintenance.

Yeah, my buddy ended up springing for Autopilot on his Model 3 Standard "Plus" order, but was disappointed to learn that the auto-lane-change feature is only for FSD. He doesn't want to spring for FSD because he's planning on trading it in for a Y in a year or two.

That really bites. I'm not in the market for a Tesla anytime soon, but I've played with the TM3 configurator. At first I thought "great!" Autopilot is cheaper, and I would never buy FSD because level 4/5 automation is nowhere near ready, and many experts don't think you can even do it without LIDAR.

 

[Aikouka]

Not sure what you're asking.

I believe he's asking if you can change your order to different variants after you order. The answer to that is yes, until Tesla locks you in. After that, you have to call them up, and you can incur a fee if you change it. Typically, you're locked in once Tesla has started building your car or they've found you an existing, pre-built one that matches your specs.

That really bites. I'm not in the market for a Tesla anytime soon, but I've played with the TM3 configurator. At first I thought "great!" Autopilot is cheaper, and I would never buy FSD because level 4/5 automation is nowhere near ready, and many experts don't think you can even do it without LIDAR.

Theoretically, I don't see why you can't. Ultimately, that would require a neural network that's trained in how to drive off photography alone, which really isn't much different than how we learned to drive. It'd be sort of like how we were all somewhat bad at determining distance in the beginning -- and some still are -- but we got better over time because we learned how to perceive distance and maybe various caveats to that.

Now, it's worth noting that Tesla does include radars throughout the car. So, it doesn't have to really guess distances using photography, but it does have to use the cameras to understand vehicle positioning. It's like that issue that I pointed out with how my car can get confused on a turn and think a vehicle is in front of it even though it's in another lane.