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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
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The political nonsense has been ongoing for years, since at least the Twitter purchase. People like myself and @Brainonska511 will never consider a Tesla auto as long as Elon has any skin in the game. He could quit as CEO tonight and I wouldn't care, because he still has many billions in stock.*

The P/E ratio is currently 170, and their short term prospects for auto sales recovery look dismal. Unless Elon pulls a rabbit out of a hat, I don't see their story getting any better. But that's the conundrum for Elon. He has to continue playing his AI/robots hype game to keep the stock pumped up. If he quits, the game is over. Investors have done very well over the past decade, so they apparently have no choice but to embrace the RDF. The smart ones could take the profits and run, but index funds have no choice.

You're right that he needs to disengage from public politics and slap fights with DJT, but that's not going to fix Tesla's real business issues.

* The reality for some of us is that Elon has been a shitty human being for far too long for any type of mea culpa to have any effect. But Americans like redemption stories too, so maybe others are more malleable. I'm not saying that PR doesn't work. I'm saying that Elon has offended the hell out of progressives, the CORE Tesla buyers, that it's hard to spin your way back from that.
 
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Kaido

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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manly said:
will never consider a Tesla auto as long as Elon has any skin in the game. He could quit as CEO tonight and I wouldn't care, because he still has many billions in stock.
Click to expand...

I don't foresee that ever happening:

1. Money is a form of power & no one wants to give up power
2. Elon is great at hyping the stock, even post-salute
3. The board gets rich as a result, so no incentive to change

I see two motivational drivers for his political forays:

1. Keep the EV credits rolling in cash
2. Keep companies like BYD OUT!

However, I see more non-Tesla EV's now than I do Tesla's on the road. Both consumer choice & styling matter. The competition is serious now:

1752024798680.png
 
Last edited:
Kaido

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,937
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manly said:
it's hard to spin your way back from that.
Click to expand...

Not just that, but the far right political group are more known for coal-rolling ICE trucks than plugsharing. Starting the American party may be a way to attract his exact target demographic. Right now he's aiming for the "pro-gun, pro-Bitcoin" crowd:

www.foxnews.com

Elon Musk indicates his new political party will be pro-gun, pro-bitcoin: 'The Second Amendment is sacred'

Elon Musk is launching the a new political party called the America Party, and has indicated that it will be pro-Second Amendment and pro-bitcoin
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

As far as EV news goes, Stellantis has announced NACS adoption & iirc was the last of the 7 IONNA charging group's members to adopt it, so Musk is keen to keep his charging network profitable & keep those rebates rolling in for ALL EV makers, as any modern EV sale will soon include NACS, which is all net-positive for Tesla. Plus Tesla's Superchargers cost like 1/5 of the competition to deploy:

electrek.co

Tesla's Supercharger cost revealed to be just one-fifth of the competition in losing home state bid

New documents show that Tesla has a major cost advantage when deploying fast-charging stations as its Superchargers cost just one-fifth...
electrek.co electrek.co

As far as long-term public behavior goes, I've worked for a number of corporations & this is no surprise to me at a management level; the current administration & social media networks are simply more open about it. I have no expectations for politicians or ultra-wealthy capitalists to behave in a relatable or rational manner. But to me, it's all surface-level reaction stuff, like the Chick-fil-a boycott...once you dig under the surface a bit, it ALL looks bad!

www.phillymag.com

Boycotting Chick-fil-A? Here Are 243 Other Companies You Might Want to Avoid

Some prominent Philly companies — as well as familiar national brands like Armani, H&M, Kate Spade, Bed Bath & Beyond, and Outback Steakhouse — don’t get high LGBTQ marks in a just-released report.
www.phillymag.com www.phillymag.com

I'm all for protesting, as it's the American way, but personally, I'm more interested in the news side of things than the political side of it. I don't want to give billionaire politicians any of more of MY time or energy outside of what I'm personally interested in. My discussions aren't for political judgements, as it's all a giant zoo to me, but rather, auditing the technology, which is going to advance one way or another!

Same with my views on the Cybertruck: thought it was pretty ugly at first, warmed up to it & pre-ordered a couple as a functional EV-vs-price ride, then it got released at triple the price with parts literally falling off & missing key advertised features (lightbar, ATV, ramp, big battery, etc.), and then became a politically-divisive symbol. Do I still like it as a weird vehicle with really neat technology features? Absolutely! But unfortunately, that ship has sailed haha.

VERY curious about what they will do with the Cybertruck line & existing inventory. Musk is the richest guy in the world for a reason, so I'm sure he'll figure something out. But Trump is also the leader of the free world for a reason & I don't think a financially-savvy person going against a politically-savvy person is going to work out in Musk's favor long-term, unless he plans to swing the American party back to Trump as a long-term plan, as the democrats don't seem to have a real plan gong forward.

But, that's getting off into the political nonsense side of things. Same stuff, different day, things are just more public these days. As a large American manufacturer & EV leader, I want to see Tesla survive & thrive (preferably minus the politically-divisive leadership). From a marketing perspective, Musk could literally turn things around in one day, but instead has double-downed on politics again, which didn't work out so well last time & has already tanked his company nearly 10% (again).

But, I get it. Current politics are affecting the bottom line. The EV tax credit ends this year:

www.marketplace.org

After nearly two decades, tax credits for electric vehicles will end on Sept. 30

But used EVs coming off of leases will continue to come onto the used car market.
www.marketplace.org www.marketplace.org

As a result, everyone is doing 0% interest to try to do a final push:

electrek.co

All the EVs you can buy with 0% financing in July, 2025

If you're ready to pull the trigger on a new EV, you're in luck! There are plenty of great options with 0% interest financing to choose from!
electrek.co electrek.co

And maybe the Slate will really be $20k!

1752027621600.png
 
Fenixgoon

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
33,125
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this just in, free charging at work is awesome and gas stations are now for suckers (yes that's obligatory hyperbole, but it is a sweet perk).

on the topic of charging though, what does everyone use for their home chargers? there seems to be a myriad of models where none of them are truly "bad". the biggest contention seems to be whether to use a 240V plug or to have the charger hardwired to the panel.
 
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Kaido

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,937
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Fenixgoon said:
this just in, free charging at work is awesome and gas stations are now for suckers (yes that's obligatory hyperbole, but it is a sweet perk).

on the topic of charging though, what does everyone use for their home chargers? there seems to be a myriad of models where none of them are truly "bad". the biggest contention seems to be whether to use a 240V plug or to have the charger hardwired to the panel.
Click to expand...

The Emporia is pretty popular:

 
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Fenixgoon

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
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Q

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
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Kaido said:
4. Tesla needs to admit defeat on the camera-only FSD narrative & adopt LIDAR. imo this & AI would allow them to own the ride-sharing market because of vertical integration:
Click to expand...
They kind of f'ed themselves on this. They have been selling FSD for years. Abandoning all those cars will leave them open to lawsuits.
 
Ken g6

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
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M

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,163
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Kaido said:
Not just that, but the far right political group are more known for coal-rolling ICE trucks than plugsharing. Starting the American party may be a way to attract his exact target demographic. Right now he's aiming for the "pro-gun, pro-Bitcoin" crowd:
Click to expand...
Hate to keep beating a dead horse, since we'll just have to "agree to disagree." But what the heck are you talking about?
How does a "guns & Bitcoin" party juice Tesla sales?* That's an even more absurd suggestion than Elon's problems are easily solvable with a sincere apology.

The core Tesla customer was upper- middle class, living in a HCoL area in a blue state. His "American" Party isn't bringing very many of them back into the fold.

* A while back, there was one Wall Street analyst who suggested Elon could eventually replace some of their core customers with new red state customers. Haha funniest shit I read that day.


Kaido said:
OTA updates sometimes brick Mach-E's:
Click to expand...
That's the ultimate Blue Screen of Death.
 
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Kaido

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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manly said:
Hate to keep beating a dead horse, since we'll just have to "agree to disagree." But what the heck are you talking about?
How does a "guns & Bitcoin" party juice Tesla sales?* That's an even more absurd suggestion than Elon's problems are easily solvable with a sincere apology.
Click to expand...

No worries! Again, two separate discussions: news & politics. I'm interested in EV's & Tesla; Musk is relevant to that discussion as far as his positive technological contributions go & how his behavior affects Tesla, as I'd really like to see them succeed! As for his politics, well, he's the world's richest capitalist. I don't expect any of his moves to be in line with anything other than wealth growth. From what I can see:

1. The eco-friendly, well-off liberal crowd was his initial target market.

2. He saw an opportunity in Trump to influence policies that would improve his companies & switch to the conservative side, which backfired. Global sales are down 13% with less than 6,500 Cybertrucks sold.

3. Right now, the democrats don't have much of a contender & he's already alienated liberals anyway. Dissatisfaction with Trump is growing. From what I can gather, he sees an opportunity to poach the remaining market by appealing to a subset of republicans who might actually care: (which, as far as I can tell, is his exact remaining target market, because I think every conservative who wanted a Cybertruck probably got one at this point lol)

a. Pro-gun ("45% of Republicans and GOP-leaning independents report owning a gun, compared to 20% of Democrats and Democratic-leaning individuals")

b. Pro-Bitcoin ("41% of Republicans own cryptocurrencies, which is higher than the 32% of Democrats who do.")

I see this playing out two ways:

1. Billionaire who can't be president fosters the new party & wins, enabling better control over related green policy changes for subsidies etc.

2. Or he takes that niche political market & then offers it to Trump as a peace offering, outsizing whatever opposition the democrats try to offer, in order to win back political favor

He has a lot to contend with

1. Burned his original target audience bridge

2. Burned his Trump bridge

3. EV credits leaving this year

4. Government charging station project cancelled

5. Solar too: (re: Tesla solar) "The One Big Beautiful Bill Act effectively ends renewable energy tax credits after 2026 if projects have not started construction. Wind and solar projects whose construction starts after that must be placed in service by the end of 2027. Under previous law, project developers would have been able to claim a 30% tax credit through 2032."

6. Tariffs galore

7. Crazy EV competition (even from Kia) & BYD is eating Tesla's lunch worldwide

8. The Cybertruck is now dead weight

9. The Cybertaxi has to function without LIDAR

Simple marketplace fix? Say sorry (for the market, which has its own strange set of financial reactions separate from individual judgements), focus on the cars, release cool new stuff, move on. Tesla's lowest stock price this year was ~$220 & is already back up nearly $100 a share after leaving DOGE. I don't disagree with the protesting at all; imo, it was effective in prodding him to leave office. The whole thing is weird overall because I couldn't tell you a single name of any other car company CEO lol.
 
Brainonska511

Brainonska511

Lifer
Dec 10, 2005
28,087
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Fenixgoon said:
on the topic of charging though, what does everyone use for their home chargers? there seems to be a myriad of models where none of them are truly "bad". the biggest contention seems to be whether to use a 240V plug or to have the charger hardwired to the panel.
Click to expand...
You should look at TechnologyConnections on YouTube - he had some thoughts about home chargers and what you might want to look for.
 
Brainonska511

Brainonska511

Lifer
Dec 10, 2005
28,087
12,711
136
Kaido

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,937
6,881
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Brainonska511 said:
Great - binding, individual arbitration. I'm sure everyone is going to be busting down the door for that experience to hold Tesla accountable for their false advertising.
Click to expand...

I've learned the hard way to only buy:

1. What currently exists today (as an available feature)
2. What actually works
3. NOT first-generation

Vaporware & teething issues are Not For Me™.
 
Brovane

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,242
2,477
136
Fenixgoon said:
this just in, free charging at work is awesome and gas stations are now for suckers (yes that's obligatory hyperbole, but it is a sweet perk).

on the topic of charging though, what does everyone use for their home chargers? there seems to be a myriad of models where none of them are truly "bad". the biggest contention seems to be whether to use a 240V plug or to have the charger hardwired to the panel.
Click to expand...

Hard wired you don't need a GFCI breaker. There is kind of a conflict between the electrical code and EVSE chargers for this. By Code if you install a outlet like a 14-50 it should be on a GFCI 50A breaker. However there is already built in GFCI protection inside of most EVSE's that can cause a conflict between the charger and the GFCI breaker.

I have two Chargers at home.

A 60A Hardwired Tesla Universal Wall Charger. This charger is great at it's price point because you can either charge NACS vehicles or J1772(Built-in Adapter) so you basically have the best of both worlds.

I also have a 14-50 outlet with a 40A Juice Box charger. This charger was great until Enel-X bought them and ruined the software that was used on them and then went bankrupt as a final FU.

The Emporia EV charger can be a interesting selection especially if you pair it with a Emporia Energy Monitor. With this combo and if you have solar installed you can do things like tell the charger to charge a EV with excess solar. However you need the Energy Monitor installed and tracking your solar production. It uses CT clamps that go around individual wires at your breaker panel.
 
Brovane

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,242
2,477
136
Brainonska511 said:
Great - binding, individual arbitration. I'm sure everyone is going to be busting down the door for that experience to hold Tesla accountable for their false advertising.
Click to expand...

The guy who filed was a lawyer and had all the expertise. I doubt very many people are going to go through that since most people lack the expertise without hiring outside counsel.
 
Brainonska511

Brainonska511

Lifer
Dec 10, 2005
28,087
12,711
136
Brovane said:
The guy who filed was a lawyer and had all the expertise. I doubt very many people are going to go through that since most people lack the expertise without hiring outside counsel.
Click to expand...
That's the point of my comment. Individual binding arbitration clauses are a way for companies to keep people from suing for damages.
 
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Kaido

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Amazing that we can buy anything from China EXCEPT an EV lol:

 
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