Question 2023 upgrade...

[BoomerD]

Because of all the problems I've been having with my current PC, i7-9700K/32gb Corsair DDR4/EVGA 3070 GPU, Seasonic Focus 750 PSU, I'm looking to MAYBE upgrade later this month.

I will re-use one of my 2 cases, either an IBuyPower POS mid-tower case, or an ancient Coolermaster HAF 932 which will require new case fans and the addition of a USB 3. front panel. The Coolermaster, being a MUCH larger case will give me much more room for expansion, would allow me to use a Noctua air cooler, but if I go with an AIO, then I'm limited to a 240mm unit same as the IPB case.

So...I just added the Corsair RAM a month ago, I could go with a 12th gen Intel CPU and keep that, but if I go with a 13th gen, then I might have to buy DDR5. (but depending on the motherboard, I MIGHT have to do with a 12th gen CPU.)

Recommendations for CPU/Motherboard? I'd prefer to stay with the "flagship" model of whichever generation I get. No I5 or I7 models unless the performance is so much better than the I9 variant.

I DO NOT need storage...I have a couple of good (1TB WD Black and 2 TB Seagate) spinner HDD's, 2 240GB SSD's, a 1TB NVMe and a 2TB NVMe.

I know we have lots of AMD supporters here, but my VERY LIMITED experience with AMD/ATi has been...disappointing to say the least. (most of those were FAR from being flagship models of CPU or GPU with the exception of the X850XT PE GPU I bought some 15 years ago.) As such, I'd prefer only Intel processor recommendations.

Thanks.

EDIT: This will be used for gaming, (mostly older FPS shooters) surfing and watching videos. No video encoding, no graphics work other than games. No CAD or anything similar.

EDIT.2
Turns out, both Z690 and Z790 boards are available in DDR4 and DDR5.

Now then, I'vever built with MSI. I seem to remember that about 20 years ago they were considered bottom tier. Don't know if that's changed. I've pretty much only ever used ASUS in my builds, but have been looking at Gigabyte as well...HOWEVER, the "exploding PSU" debacle from this past year has me second guessing that.

 

[BoomerD]

I haven't touched any of the settings AFAIK.
Must be MSI's doing.
I'll have to have a look in the BIOS to see if I accident accidentally turned something on.

EDIT: Looks like I had turned on "game boost" for the CPU in the BIOS. Not even sure what that does...but it sounds like some form of overclocking to me...so I turned it off for now.

 

[igor_kavinski]

EDIT: Looks like I had turned on "game boost" for the CPU in the BIOS. Not even sure what that does...but it sounds like some form of overclocking to me...so I turned it off for now.

How do the temps/voltage look like now?

 

[BoomerD]

How do the temps/voltage look like now?

Surprisingly, idle temps still bump into the 50's pretty regularly. I'll have to go back into the BIOS to check voltages.

Hmm...MSI Center shows this:

 

[igor_kavinski]

Surprisingly, idle temps still bump into the 50's pretty regularly. I'll have to go back into the BIOS to check voltages.

Are you using the LGA1700 contact frame?

 

[Tech Junky]

idle temps still bump into the 50's pretty regularly

What did you use for the cooler and paste? Double check the tension on the screws and make sure they're all tight.

Using these in a 12700K at idle is putting me in the mid 20's for temps at idle and might boost to about 50-55C under full stress.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09FDXJV3M

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BL3SCWH

Core 0: +25.0°C (high = +95.0°C, crit = +115.0°C)
Core 4: +23.0°C (high = +95.0°C, crit = +115.0°C)
Core 8: +25.0°C (high = +95.0°C, crit = +115.0°C)
Core 12: +22.0°C (high = +95.0°C, crit = +115.0°C)
Core 16: +24.0°C (high = +95.0°C, crit = +115.0°C)
Core 20: +23.0°C (high = +95.0°C, crit = +115.0°C)
Core 24: +23.0°C (high = +95.0°C, crit = +115.0°C)
Core 28: +24.0°C (high = +95.0°C, crit = +115.0°C)
Core 36: +24.0°C (high = +95.0°C, crit = +115.0°C)
Core 37: +24.0°C (high = +95.0°C, crit = +115.0°C)
Core 38: +24.0°C (high = +95.0°C, crit = +115.0°C)
Core 39: +24.0°C (high = +95.0°C, crit = +115.0°C)

 

[igor_kavinski]

What did you use for the cooler and paste? Double check the tension on the screws and make sure they're all tight.

Using these in a 12700K at idle is putting me in the mid 20's for temps at idle and might boost to about 50-55C under full stress.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09FDXJV3M

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BL3SCWH

Yeah those temps sound totally normal.

Also, BoomerD, did you latch the CPU properly into the socket? When I did it, it required a worrying amount of force. I was afraid that something may be wrong with the mobo's socket or its latch. But thankfully, it booted on the first try.

 

[BoomerD]

Are you using the LGA1700 contact frame?

Yep

 

[Tech Junky]

@igor_kavinski

I agree the latching on ADL / RPL is nothing like it was in the past. These things really clamp down to the socket. I guess the MOBO OEMs decided to apply more pressure than they did in the past.

I know when I was playing around with my 8700K and moving the cooler around I missed tightening the screws to it completely and came up with high temps which were resolved by tightening the screws.

As to the whole contact frame option vs OEM latching.... there might not be enough contact between the CPU / cooler if the edges of the CPU aren't above the frame to make sufficient contact with the cooler. The other issue might be too much paste which will cause more resistance in thermal transfer. This is another reason I switched to pads instead of messing around with paste.

 

[BoomerD]

What did you use for the cooler and paste? Double check the tension on the screws and make sure they're all tight.

Using these in a 12700K at idle is putting me in the mid 20's for temps at idle and might boost to about 50-55C under full stress.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09FDXJV3M

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BL3SCWH

Cooler is the Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer II 280mm with the goop Arctic provided.

Yeah those temps sound totally normal.

Also, BoomerD, did you latch the CPU properly into the socket? When I did it, it required a worrying amount of force. I was afraid that something may be wrong with the mobo's socket or its latch. But thankfully, it booted on the first try.

Yes. I was surprised how easy it was to seat the CPU. Once it was in place, I removed the crappy ILM and replaced it with the contact frame.

 

[igor_kavinski]

As to the whole contact frame option vs OEM latching.... there might not be enough contact between the CPU / cooler if the edges of the CPU aren't above the frame to make sufficient contact with the cooler. The other issue might be too much paste which will cause more resistance in thermal transfer. This is another reason I switched to pads instead of messing around with paste.

Quite possible.

BoomerD, could you use some small LED on one side of the CPU and cover it so the light doesn't spill? Then place a piece of paper on the opposite side and see if there is light leaking onto the paper. If there is, there's an air gap.

 

[Tech Junky]

Cooler is the Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer II 280mm with the goop Arctic provided.

Might want to make sure both the CPU / Cooler plate are actually level. Some mention using a metal ruler but, anything that's flat should suffice in figuring out if either is warped in any way. There's always a chance something didn't get milled correctly.

 

[igor_kavinski]

How do your temps look running CBR23 multicore?

Thermalright LGA1700-BCF Contact Frame Review : Can it tame Raptor Lake’s heat?

Impressive temperature reduction for those impacted by CPU bending

www.tomshardware.com

Before securing the screws, rotate them backward in the thread until you hear a click, and then secure the screw. This will ensure the socket and screw are properly secured.

Dunno what that means. Did you do that?

 

[BoomerD]

View attachment 75092

How do your temps look running CBR23 multicore?

Thermalright LGA1700-BCF Contact Frame Review : Can it tame Raptor Lake’s heat?

Impressive temperature reduction for those impacted by CPU bending

www.tomshardware.com

Dunno what that means. Did you do that?

Yep, I did that. Helps prevent cross-threading. I followed this method:

 

[BoomerD]

Quite possible.

BoomerD, could you use some small LED on one side of the CPU and cover it so the light doesn't spill? Then place a piece of paper on the opposite side and see if there is light leaking onto the paper. If there is, there's an air gap.

Might want to make sure both the CPU / Cooler plate are actually level. Some mention using a metal ruler but, anything that's flat should suffice in figuring out if either is warped in any way. There's always a chance something didn't get milled correctly.

Both would require me to pull the motherboard from the case...I REALLY don't want to have to do that if possible.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Both would require me to pull the motherboard from the case...I REALLY don't want to have to do that if possible.

Dunno but I smell an installation booboo. You forgot something.

 

[BoomerD]

Dunno but I smell an installation booboo. You forgot something.

Maybe...not sure what I could have forgotten. The pump base for the cooler was a TIGHT fit. The board isn't on AC's list of boards that it has issues with.
Only one MSI board on the list, and it's the Z790 Edge.

ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 280 - User Manual

Get your ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 280 user manual. Detailed explanation with coloured schematics, photos, animations and videos.

support.arctic.de

Here's the Cinebench results:

Cores 0-5 got into the mid-to-upper 80's throughout the test. Only core 5 hit 90...it maxed at 92. (made me nervous as hell, but never got above that.) Within seconds, the CPU cooled right back to the 30's again.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Cores 0-5 got into the mid-to-upper 80's throughout the test. Only core 5 hit 90...it maxed at 92. (made me nervous as hell, but never got above that.) Within seconds, the CPU cooled right back to the 30's again.

Seems acceptable for now but you might run into throttling if you do something strenuous with the cores during summer.

 

[BoomerD]

Seems acceptable for now but you might run into throttling if you do something strenuous with the cores during summer.

I might order a better TIM. The cooler came with AC's MX-5, but they're about to release a "new and improved" MX-6 version. In the past, I either used Noctua's NT-H1 or one of the Arctic Silver products. (going WAAAAAY back)
Noctua has a "new and improved" NT-H2 product that's supposed to be better...and, of course, there's Thermal Grizzly's Kryonaut.
Recommendations?
FWIW, I put the Noctua TIM on my i5-760 when I built it in 2011...I haven't changed it yet...and the CPU still runs cool.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Recommendations?

I'm just gonna use the graphite pad and that HUGE cooler I linked to before that AT reviewed when I get around to building my 12700K+Z790 (not sure when. want to get a cheap, big and not heavy case. that combination probably doesn't exist in cases).

 

[BoomerD]

Doing a bit of reading, it turns out that if I check "water cooling" in the MSI BIOS, it sets "4096 watts" as the max power to the CPU.

I changed it to "boxed cooler" which is 181 watts. I'll see if that helps anything...or hurts.

 

[Tech Junky]

TIM

only if you want disappointment and waste money.

It never fails to amaze me how many people waste money on paste. It's all the same junk and dries out over time and needs more of it later on. It's messy and generally just another failure point. The pads are the same price and deliver consistent performance. 1-2 degrees cooler for a paste that you have to mess with again in the short term is just a PITA.

I've run the pads in 2 server setups and 2 laptop setups and have less issues with them than any paste. I've tested a handful of pastes tryin to bring one laptop under control and they all lasted about 6-12 months except one that failed within 3-4 days and shot temps up over 100C.

 

[In2Photos]

Doing a bit of reading, it turns out that if I check "water cooling" in the MSI BIOS, it sets "4096 watts" as the max power to the CPU.

I changed it to "boxed cooler" which is 181 watts. I'll see if that helps anything...or hurts.

Holy crap! Pretty sure it would let out the magic smoke way before you get to 4096! I still think it's voltage related.

 

[In2Photos]

only if you want disappointment and waste money.

It never fails to amaze me how many people waste money on paste. It's all the same junk and dries out over time and needs more of it later on. It's messy and generally just another failure point. The pads are the same price and deliver consistent performance. 1-2 degrees cooler for a paste that you have to mess with again in the short term is just a PITA.

I've run the pads in 2 server setups and 2 laptop setups and have less issues with them than any paste. I've tested a handful of pastes tryin to bring one laptop under control and they all lasted about 6-12 months except one that failed within 3-4 days and shot temps up over 100C.

Paste is a right-of-passage. You've never really built a computer until you have used paste. 😂

 

[BoomerD]

only if you want disappointment and waste money.

It never fails to amaze me how many people waste money on paste. It's all the same junk and dries out over time and needs more of it later on. It's messy and generally just another failure point. The pads are the same price and deliver consistent performance. 1-2 degrees cooler for a paste that you have to mess with again in the short term is just a PITA.

I've run the pads in 2 server setups and 2 laptop setups and have less issues with them than any paste. I've tested a handful of pastes tryin to bring one laptop under control and they all lasted about 6-12 months except one that failed within 3-4 days and shot temps up over 100C.

I'm not against the pads. I'm willing to give them a try. What brand? Not sure what size for the i5-13600K.

 

[Tech Junky]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BL3SCWH

These 40x40 pads cover the lga1700 perfectly.