Question 2023 upgrade...

BoomerD

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Because of all the problems I've been having with my current PC, i7-9700K/32gb Corsair DDR4/EVGA 3070 GPU, Seasonic Focus 750 PSU, I'm looking to MAYBE upgrade later this month.

I will re-use one of my 2 cases, either an IBuyPower POS mid-tower case, or an ancient Coolermaster HAF 932 which will require new case fans and the addition of a USB 3. front panel. The Coolermaster, being a MUCH larger case will give me much more room for expansion, would allow me to use a Noctua air cooler, but if I go with an AIO, then I'm limited to a 240mm unit same as the IPB case.

So...I just added the Corsair RAM a month ago, I could go with a 12th gen Intel CPU and keep that, but if I go with a 13th gen, then I might have to buy DDR5. (but depending on the motherboard, I MIGHT have to do with a 12th gen CPU.)

Recommendations for CPU/Motherboard? I'd prefer to stay with the "flagship" model of whichever generation I get. No I5 or I7 models unless the performance is so much better than the I9 variant.

I DO NOT need storage...I have a couple of good (1TB WD Black and 2 TB Seagate) spinner HDD's, 2 240GB SSD's, a 1TB NVMe and a 2TB NVMe.

I know we have lots of AMD supporters here, but my VERY LIMITED experience with AMD/ATi has been...disappointing to say the least. (most of those were FAR from being flagship models of CPU or GPU with the exception of the X850XT PE GPU I bought some 15 years ago.) As such, I'd prefer only Intel processor recommendations.

Thanks.

EDIT: This will be used for gaming, (mostly older FPS shooters) surfing and watching videos. No video encoding, no graphics work other than games. No CAD or anything similar.

EDIT.2
Turns out, both Z690 and Z790 boards are available in DDR4 and DDR5.

Now then, I'vever built with MSI. I seem to remember that about 20 years ago they were considered bottom tier. Don't know if that's changed. I've pretty much only ever used ASUS in my builds, but have been looking at Gigabyte as well...HOWEVER, the "exploding PSU" debacle from this past year has me second guessing that.
 
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Tech Junky

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13th gen, then I will have to buy DDR5.
Nope, DDR4 still works.

If you're going I9 then just get a D4 board for it. There's not much different between z790/690 other than some niche changes same goes for the CPU. It really doesn't make a difference for long term upgrade options since the boards change again next fall for MTL/ARL.

Save yourself some cash and go ADL.
 

VirtualLarry

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BoomerD

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I keep watching Newegg and Amazon for a decent CPU/Mobo combo sale. Haven't seen one in a while.

(anyone remember Fry's and the horrid ECS board combos from 15-20 years ago?)

I really don't keep up on this stuff like most of you do, so pardon my stupid questions...like:

is the I9-12900 KS worth the extra cost over the I9-12900K? Is that maybe just a binned variant of the K version?
Looks like the only REAL difference is about 300 mhz faster and 25 watts more power draw. Otherwise, same basic architecture. (core count, etc)
I'm surprised that the i5-13600K rates so close to the top. Something to consider.
 
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Tech Junky

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Usually not going to be compelling with current gen hardware. When things age out a bit and they try to clear inventory is when you will see this.

Just get the CPU and MOBO at their best price individually. Don't game the system for trying to wait for sales as you'll spend more anyway.

I built my ADL box prior to BF and still managed to spend over $100 less than waiting for the "sale" prices.
 

BoomerD

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Usually not going to be compelling with current gen hardware. When things age out a bit and they try to clear inventory is when you will see this.

Just get the CPU and MOBO at their best price individually. Don't game the system for trying to wait for sales as you'll spend more anyway.

I built my ADL box prior to BF and still managed to spend over $100 less than waiting for the "sale" prices.
yeah...see my "procrastination" thread in OT...
 

In2Photos

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Mar 21, 2007
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Because of all the problems I've been having with my current PC, i7-9700K/32gb Corsair DDR4/EVGA 3070 GPU, Seasonic Focus 750 PSU, I'm looking to MAYBE upgrade later this month.

I will re-use one of my 2 cases, either an IBuyPower POS mid-tower case, or an ancient Coolermaster HAF 932 which will require new case fans and the addition of a USB 3. front panel. The Coolermaster, being a MUCH larger case will give me much more room for expansion, would allow me to use a Noctua air cooler, but if I go with an AIO, then I'm limited to a 240mm unit same as the IPB case.

So...I just added the Corsair RAM a month ago, I could go with a 12th gen Intel CPU and keep that, but if I go with a 13th gen, then I will have to buy DDR5. (which, depending on the motherboard, I MIGHT have to do with a 12th gen CPU.)

Recommendations for CPU/Motherboard? I'd prefer to stay with the "flagship" model of whichever generation I get. No I5 or I7 models unless the performance is so much better than the I9 variant.

I DO NOT need storage...I have a couple of good (1TB WD Black and 2 TB Seagate) spinner HDD's, 2 240GB SSD's, a 1TB NVMe and a 2TB NVMe.

I know we have lots of AMD supporters here, but my VERY L IMITED experience with AMD/ATi has been...disappointing to say the least. (most of those were FAR from being flagship models of CPU or GPU with the exception of the X850XT PE GPU I bought some 15 years ago.) As such, I'd prefer only Intel processor recommendations.

Thanks.

EDIT: This will be used for gaming, (mostly older FPS shooters) surfing and watching videos. No video encoding, no graphics work other than games. No CAD or anything similar.
Going with a flagship product to play older FPS games seems like overkill. Most of those games can run on even the most modest of hardware (I know, I'm using an i7-920 and GTX 1060). The 13600K or 13700K paired with your existing DDR4 would be plenty for your needs.
 

BoomerD

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Going with a flagship product to play older FPS games seems like overkill. Most of those games can run on even the most modest of hardware (I know, I'm using an i7-920 and GTX 1060). The 13600K or 13700K paired with your existing DDR4 would be plenty for your needs.
Yeah, I know. I'm actually happy with the I7-9700K I currently have, but I suspect most of the issues I'm having are caused by my ASRock motherboard. I've been searching for a better z390 board, but new ones are scarce from reputable US sellers. I can find low end boards, boards made for mining, plenty of used and/or refurbished ones...but qhen I DO find a higher end board...the seller wants $700 or more. For that much, I'll just build new and part this one out.
 

Tech Junky

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It's an odd market and legacy parts are getting expensive rather than going down. A new build makes more sense and selling the old one to make up for the difference helps.
 

BoomerD

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It's an odd market and legacy parts are getting expensive rather than going down. A new build makes more sense and selling the old one to make up for the difference helps.
yep...a z390 taichi popped up in the FS forum a while back...I missed it. :(
 

igor_kavinski

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In2Photos

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Yeah, I know. I'm actually happy with the I7-9700K I currently have, but I suspect most of the issues I'm having are caused by my ASRock motherboard. I've been searching for a better z390 board, but new ones are scarce from reputable US sellers. I can find low end boards, boards made for mining, plenty of used and/or refurbished ones...but qhen I DO find a higher end board...the seller wants $700 or more. For that much, I'll just build new and part this one out.
What kind of problems are you having? Assuming you are on the latest BIOS version?
 

BoomerD

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What kind of problems are you having? Assuming you are on the latest BIOS version?
All sorts of weirdness, from the audio output not working right, (control center will repeatedly flash "what did you plug in? Center channel? Subwoofer, etc" to disconnecting the front panel headphone/microphone jacks, drives dropping out, just...weirdness...and, yes. BIOS is as updated as possible. It's an IBuyPower OEM ASRock Phantom Gaming 4 z390.
 
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igor_kavinski

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All sorts of weirdness, from the audio output not working right, (control center will repeatedly flash "what did you plug in? Center channel? Subwoofer, etc" to disconnecting the front panel headphone/microphone jacks, drives dropping out, just...weirdness...and, yes.
Could be premature failure of some mobo components. Happens. My previous Gigabyte Z77 mobo's audio output refused to work in stereo mode. I must have used it in mono mode for 5 years or more. Only because I was mostly doing console gaming during that period.
 

BoomerD

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Could be premature failure of some mobo components. Happens. My previous Gigabyte Z77 mobo's audio output refused to work in stereo mode. I must have used it in mono mode for 5 years or more. Only because I was mostly doing console gaming during that period.
Yeah. Being an OEM board, it came with a 1 year warranty. That expired almost 3 years ago. (bought the system in 4/2019) I'm not POSITIVE the board is dying, but the symptoms point to that being the source of the problems.

I started an "ISO of a Z390 board" thread in the FS forum. Replacing the board with a GOOD one might solve the problems...and be a helluva lot cheaper than buying a new CPU/motherboard/RAM.
 
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BoomerD

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So...based on many of the comments here along with a few video reviews from some of the "better" on-line sources...I've been concentrating on the i5-13600K.

Added to and upgrading my existing system, (new CPU/mobo/cpu cooler) the various PSU calculators are telling me this will draw nearly 700 watts. :eek: Apparently the i5-13600K is a power-hungry little beast. I already have an EVGA RTX3070 in the system, 2 NVMe drives, 1 SSD, 1 spinner HDD, a coolermaster AIO cooler, and a couple of case fans. How the heck is this upgraded build supposed to draw THAT MUCH power? I presume those numbers are based on overclocking...which I don't do.
 

igor_kavinski

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How the heck is this upgraded build supposed to draw THAT MUCH power?
Gaming isn't likely to fully load all the cores to 100%. Only way you may hit 700W or above is with Cinebench or video encoding. Or maybe if you ran Furmark with Prime95 in the background. I'm still running my 3090 with a generic 650W PSU. Your Seasonic PSU should be fine.
 

In2Photos

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PSU calculations tend to be conservative to allow for transient spikes. It's a lot easier for a PSU to provide a constant output than it is to alternate from low output to high output. If you are certain that you will keep things stock or even undervolted you can usually get away with something smaller.
 
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BoomerD

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Gaming isn't likely to fully load all the cores to 100%. Only way you may hit 700W or above is with Cinebench or video encoding. Or maybe if you ran Furmark with Prime95 in the background. I'm still running my 3090 with a generic 650W PSU. Your Seasonic PSU should be fine.
I know EVGA recommends a PSU of 650 watts or higher for the RTX3070 I have. Does that mean my system will likely ever actually draw that much? Nope. I'd be surprised if it ever actually drew 400 watts.

PSU calculations tend to be conservative to allow for transient spikes. It's a lot easier for a PSU to provide a constant output than it is to alternate from low output to high output. If you are certain that you will keep things stock or even undervolted you can usually get away with something smaller.
Yeah, and they oversize calculations to allow room for overclocking...I've NEVER "undervolted." Screwing with overclocking or undervolting has never been my thing. I'd MUCH rather just buy a CPU/GPU that will accomplish what I want/need, right out of the box.
 

BoomerD

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So...CPU cooling and case questions...

I have 2 cases I can use for this:

1st is a CoolerMaster HAF932 from 2011. Obviously it's a much larger case, leaving me room for one of the larger air coolers, like a Noctua. (It currently has an old Noctua NH U12P SE2 from an old 1155 I5-760 build.(not efficient enough for the I5-13600K according to Noctua)
CoolerMaster says I can fit a 360mm radiator in the top, but I think the 3rd fan will be somewhat restricted by the top cover on the case. (It has some slots for air flow, but not a lot)

https://coolermaster.egnyte.com/dl/r0qoNNGGy5 pg 10

Using the HAF case would allow me more options for HDD's (storage) and optical drive(s).

2nd case is an IBuyPower mid-tower case. I will be limited to a 240mm top-mounted AIO cooler. Case isn't wide (deep) enough for any air cooler taller than about 150mm. The ONLY thing this case has going for it is a USB3 front panel...and, (if you're into it...I'm mixed) it has some LEDS and a full glass side panel.(the CM HAF has a partial glass side panel and a 230mm fan that I may replace with 4 120mm fans) Otherwise, the IBP case has 1-120mm fan in the front, 1-120mm (I think) fan in the rear of the case, where the CM HAF has 3-230mm fans and 1 140mm fan in the rear. (Those 230mm fans are failing...they're old and there are no CM replacements...there MIGHT be a few 200mm fans that will fit, but I'm not positive. Also, 1 of the 230mm fans will be removed if I use an AIO.

So...Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer is my preference for the AIO. Will the 240 be enough? (No way to fit a 280) The Noctua NH-D15 is rated (by Noctua) as the best cooler for the I5-13600k followed by the NH-U12A. (183/169) I can fit either in the CM HAF case, as long as the fans don't interfere with the RAM. (that issue gives a nudge to the AIO coolers...no RAM interference)
 

Tech Junky

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You likely won't need an AIO as most of the hype regarding ADL/RPL was just that. I used a SE-226-XT and even under full stress it keeps the temps in check using a graphite pad between the CPU / cooler.

Now, if you're planning on gaming and have a GPU that puts out a lot of heat into the case because it has a crappy cooling design then it might be an option to go AIO but, if you put a water block on the GPU it would accomplish the same thing by diverting the GPU heat out the radiator.

More fans means less work for the cooler. I put 3x 140's on the front, 2 x 140's on top, and 120 in the back + 2 120's on the cooler and that keeps it at ambient room temp 24/7 unless it's working on transcoding or I put it into stress mode to show temps under load in a screen grab.

There's no need to spend more than $50 on a cooler though unless you find it's not up to the task once it's all put together.

As to the drive count it only really matters if you're planning on putting in several drives for Raid or bulk storage. Most cases handle a primary / secondary without any issue. Space become an issue usually after 2 x 3.5 depending on the case.
 
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BoomerD

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After looking carefully at the IBP case, I don't think it will have enough clearance for the Arctic Freezer Liquid Cooling II 240mm. Not enough room between the top of the case and top of the motherboard. It MIGHT work...but the fans/radiator are 2-1/2" (approx) in height and the top of the board is only about 1" from the top of the case. The single fan (120mm) AIO cooler in there now struggles with the i7-9700k at stock speeds...no way it would handle one of the more power hungry newer processors.
 

Tech Junky

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So put the rad on the outside and tie it to the inside with the fan screws. Or use a different cooler or case. PCPartPicker takes the guess work out of this stuff.
 

BoomerD

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So put the rad on the outside and tie it to the inside with the fan screws. Or use a different cooler or case. PCPartPicker takes the guess work out of this stuff.
On the outside? Sounds...ghetto as hell to me. I'm TRYING to reuse one of my two existing cases to save money...but it MIGHT not work. A different case WOULD give me more options for radiator size...280 or even 420mm...but those also run up my budget.
 

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