Question 2023 upgrade...

[BoomerD]

Because of all the problems I've been having with my current PC, i7-9700K/32gb Corsair DDR4/EVGA 3070 GPU, Seasonic Focus 750 PSU, I'm looking to MAYBE upgrade later this month.

I will re-use one of my 2 cases, either an IBuyPower POS mid-tower case, or an ancient Coolermaster HAF 932 which will require new case fans and the addition of a USB 3. front panel. The Coolermaster, being a MUCH larger case will give me much more room for expansion, would allow me to use a Noctua air cooler, but if I go with an AIO, then I'm limited to a 240mm unit same as the IPB case.

So...I just added the Corsair RAM a month ago, I could go with a 12th gen Intel CPU and keep that, but if I go with a 13th gen, then I might have to buy DDR5. (but depending on the motherboard, I MIGHT have to do with a 12th gen CPU.)

Recommendations for CPU/Motherboard? I'd prefer to stay with the "flagship" model of whichever generation I get. No I5 or I7 models unless the performance is so much better than the I9 variant.

I DO NOT need storage...I have a couple of good (1TB WD Black and 2 TB Seagate) spinner HDD's, 2 240GB SSD's, a 1TB NVMe and a 2TB NVMe.

I know we have lots of AMD supporters here, but my VERY LIMITED experience with AMD/ATi has been...disappointing to say the least. (most of those were FAR from being flagship models of CPU or GPU with the exception of the X850XT PE GPU I bought some 15 years ago.) As such, I'd prefer only Intel processor recommendations.

Thanks.

EDIT: This will be used for gaming, (mostly older FPS shooters) surfing and watching videos. No video encoding, no graphics work other than games. No CAD or anything similar.

EDIT.2
Turns out, both Z690 and Z790 boards are available in DDR4 and DDR5.

Now then, I'vever built with MSI. I seem to remember that about 20 years ago they were considered bottom tier. Don't know if that's changed. I've pretty much only ever used ASUS in my builds, but have been looking at Gigabyte as well...HOWEVER, the "exploding PSU" debacle from this past year has me second guessing that.

 

[Tech Junky]

ghetto

I didn't say it would be pretty

Scrimping on a proper case to match your build is part of the process. You can get a decent case that fits everything on the cheap or you can get a case that is "nice to look at" for a few bucks more.

Pick what you want to put inside the case using pcpartpicker.com and then it will narrow down your case options according to what you want to put in it. From there you pick what options you want or don't want to filter it down further.

 

[BoomerD]

OK, let me shoot a couple of builds by you folks.

Common to both will be:

EVGA RTX3070 FTW3​

WD 2TB SN770 NVMe​

HP 1TB EX950 NVMe​

WD 240GB Green SSD (to be replaced at a later date)​

Seagate 2TB HDD for storage (to be replaced with another NVMe at a later date)​

Seasonic Focus+ Gold 750 watt PSU​

CPU cooler (depending on what new case I get) will probably be an Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer II in 280mm, 360mm or 420mm. (if the 280 version would do the job, that would save quite a few $$$.)​

​

Build 1

I5-13600K​

(optional i7-12700K)​

ASUS ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming Wifi D4​

Total for the 15-13600K $628/96 (amazon)​

​

Build 2

i5-113600K​

(optional i7-12700K)​

Gigabyte Z690 AORUS Elite AX DDR4​

Total for the i5-13600K $528.97 (amazon)​

​

A couple of combo offers I'm also looking at are:

Micro Center combo i9-12900K with ASUS ROG Z690-A Wifi D4 (same board as above) $739.99 (amazon)​

Micro Center combo i7-12700K with ASUS TUG Gaming Z690-Plus Wifi D4 $549.99 (amazon)​

Newegg has a couple of combos using the ASRock Z690 Extreme WiFi 6E DDR4​

​

With an i7-12700K $450.87​

With an i9-12900K $541.93​

​

I'm skeptical about the ASRock board. I currently have an ASR Phantom Gaming 4 Z390. It's been kind of buggy right from the start, and has been getting worse...thus leading to all this research. While going that way would save a few $$$, I'm just not sure the savings is worth it.​

The i5-13600K is supposed to be (slightly) better than the i7-12700K, and comparable to the i9-12900K. (better in some tests, worse in others)​

​

Thanks.

 

[igor_kavinski]

My vote for Build 2.

If you want to avoid Gigabyte, Micro Center combo i7-12700K with ASUS TUF Gaming Z690-Plus Wifi D4 $549.99 (amazon)

But the newegg ASROCK Z690 Extreme combo with i7-12700K for $450.87 seems to be the best. You can stress test it heavily and send it back within the return period if there is an issue. My own cpu+mobo (new Z790+used 12700K. haven't gotten around to building it yet) cost me almost $600 with shipping/customs/import duties so I'm really envious of people getting this much horsepower for ~$451.

 

[igor_kavinski]

How about this? https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-strix-b550-a-gaming/p/2MG-000B-00586

Gives you an upgrade path to 5800X3D and Ryzen 5500 still gives you higher ST performance than your current CPU: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/13974005

Another option with higher performance and good mobo:

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

 

[BoomerD]

How about this? https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-strix-b550-a-gaming/p/2MG-000B-00586

Gives you an upgrade path to 5800X3D and Ryzen 5500 still gives you higher ST performance than your current CPU: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/13974005

Another option with higher performance and good mobo:

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

I'm just not...keen on AMD. I've owned two computers with AMD processors, (no idea what they were...cheapo Dell desktop for my wife, cheapo HP laotop) was never impressed with either...and owned two ATi video card, All in Wonder 2mb back in the mid 90's and an X850XT PE in the mid 00's. Neithe of those impressed me. I'll stick to Intel/nVidia.
But thanks for weighing in.

As for the ASRock combo, it LOOKS decent, but that board's power phases seems poor. While it may never be a problem fir me since I don"t generally overclock, it just seems like the board is underbuilt as compared to some of the others.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Things have changed a lot with Ryzen.

https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-ROG-Strix-Gaming-Motherboard/dp/B08F9VP2RC/

https://www.amazon.com/AMD-5700X-16-Thread-Unlocked-Processor/dp/B09VCHQHZ6/

Both from Amazon so you can return them if you dislike them. And you get a free game.

 

[BoomerD]

Decided to re-use my ancient Coolermaster HAF932 case. I already have a 1TB HP EX950 NVMe and a 2TB WD SN770 NVMe drive that I'll move over.
Ordered parts today:

i5-13600K
Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite AX DDR4
Noctua NH-D15 chromax-Black
WD Blue SATAIII SSD-1TB
Opted for a front panel USB/card reader add-on since my old Coolermaster HAF932 case doesn't have USB 3.0 nor a card reader.
Oh...and Windows 10 Home. (I so wanted to buy one of the cheap keys of the intarwebs...but I just don't trust those)
I will (hopefully) re-use the 2x16GB Corsair Vengance LPX RAM. It's NOT on the GB QVL list, but Corsair says it will work...and the model number is ALMOST identical to some that are on the list.

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-LPX/p/CMK32GX4M2D3600C18

Updates to follow as parts start trickling in.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite AX DDR4

Reviews must be good for you to choose Gigabyte

 

[BoomerD]

Reviews must be good for you to choose Gigabyte

There are reviews?

 

[igor_kavinski]

That's Gigabyte alright.

I think they make the same chicks assembling their boards in their Taiwanese HQ also write the BIOS and pay them only for the assembling.

Are you a human?

www.newegg.ca

Gigabyte Z690 AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 LGA1700 ATX Motherboard

Buy Gigabyte Z690 AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 LGA1700 ATX Motherboard featuring ATX Form Factor, Intel Z690 Chipset, LGA1700 Socket, 4 x Dual-Channel DDR4 Slots, 6 x SATA, 4 x M.2, 1 x PCIe 5.0 x16, 2 x PCIe 3.0 x16 Slots, Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax) | Bluetooth 5.2, Realtek 2.5 GbE LAN, Realtek High Definition...

www.bhphotovideo.com

 

[BoomerD]

View attachment 73708
View attachment 73709
That's Gigabyte alright.

I think they make the same chicks assembling their boards in their Taiwanese HQ also write the BIOS and pay them only for the assembling.

Are you a human?

www.newegg.ca

Gigabyte Z690 AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 LGA1700 ATX Motherboard

Buy Gigabyte Z690 AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 LGA1700 ATX Motherboard featuring ATX Form Factor, Intel Z690 Chipset, LGA1700 Socket, 4 x Dual-Channel DDR4 Slots, 6 x SATA, 4 x M.2, 1 x PCIe 5.0 x16, 2 x PCIe 3.0 x16 Slots, Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax) | Bluetooth 5.2, Realtek 2.5 GbE LAN, Realtek High Definition...

www.bhphotovideo.com

I originally wanted the ASUS ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming WiFi DDR4...but the Noctua cooler has clearance issues on that board:

Mechanically incompatible in standard orientation (blowing towards the I/O panel) due to height of the plastic cover over the VRM heatsink. Installation turned by 90° (blowing towards the top of the case) is possible.

I've never built with Gigabyte...hopefully things go smoothly. 🤞

 

[Tech Junky]

DDR4...but the Noctua cooler has clearance issues on that board:

Then you pick a different cooler.

 

[BoomerD]

View attachment 73708
View attachment 73709
That's Gigabyte alright.

I think they make the same chicks assembling their boards in their Taiwanese HQ also write the BIOS and pay them only for the assembling.

Are you a human?

www.newegg.ca

Gigabyte Z690 AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 LGA1700 ATX Motherboard

Buy Gigabyte Z690 AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 LGA1700 ATX Motherboard featuring ATX Form Factor, Intel Z690 Chipset, LGA1700 Socket, 4 x Dual-Channel DDR4 Slots, 6 x SATA, 4 x M.2, 1 x PCIe 5.0 x16, 2 x PCIe 3.0 x16 Slots, Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax) | Bluetooth 5.2, Realtek 2.5 GbE LAN, Realtek High Definition...

www.bhphotovideo.com

Then you pick a different cooler.

Fine...youse guys talked me out of it. Orders cancelled. I'll re-think this.

 

[BoomerD]

Then you pick a different cooler.

The CoolerMaster HAF 932 was built primarily as an air-cooled case...with the option to add a radiator in the top. In theory, I can put a 360mm radiator in there, but over half the 3rd fan is covered by the front top cover that houses the front IO.

unfortunately, there's only a small strip of cut-outs for vents in that section...which would restrict air flow for that 3rd fan.

I've been trying to figure out a way to mount a 280mm radiator on theree, but, being made for 120mm fans, it's gonna take some serious engineering. (or shade-tree cobbling)

I MIGHT have to resign my self to actually buying a new case.

 

[In2Photos]

I'm a big proponent for reusing items when possible, but cases like yours and mine (Cooler Master RC590) just aren't built for today's systems. If you want to use it for nostalgic reasons then go ahead. If not, buy a new case. You'll appreciate the updates.

 

[BoomerD]

I'm a big proponent for reusing items when possible, but cases like yours and mine (Cooler Master RC590) just aren't built for today's systems. If you want to use it for nostalgic reasons then go ahead. If not, buy a new case. You'll appreciate the updates.

yeah <sigh> I know...things like USB 3.0 in the front panel, actually being built for modern components. As much as I LIKE this case, for me, it's more about saving the couple hundred $$$ a good case will run. (I REALLY like the Fractal Torrent) I like some of the Lian Li cases too, but they only offer a 1 year warranty on them. WTF? At those prices?

 

[Tech Junky]

1 year warranty on them. WTF? At those prices?

I think you're stuck on the wrong things here. A case doesn't do much that would cause something to break on it. The main concern is when it's in transit to you. Sure, there's some movable parts like the switches and OEM fans that come with it but, for the most part it just sits there.

When I'm looking at warranty periods on a build it's mostly for the other parts that go inside.

PSU - should be at least 10 years
CPU - doesn't really change from one gen to the next
Fans - how a company deals with failures / replacements makes a difference

The devices used to protect your system in my eyes are more important than a case warranty. Typically if something is going to break it's either in transit or while assembling it. Peace of mind on the plastic parts is nice.

 

[BoomerD]

I think you're stuck on the wrong things here. A case doesn't do much that would cause something to break on it. The main concern is when it's in transit to you. Sure, there's some movable parts like the switches and OEM fans that come with it but, for the most part it just sits there.

When I'm looking at warranty periods on a build it's mostly for the other parts that go inside.

PSU - should be at least 10 years
CPU - doesn't really change from one gen to the next
Fans - how a company deals with failures / replacements makes a difference

The devices used to protect your system in my eyes are more important than a case warranty. Typically if something is going to break it's either in transit or while assembling it. Peace of mind on the plastic parts is nice.

To a point, I agree, but some of those Lian Li cases are...complex with lots of odd moving parts. (lancool III and some of the O11 variants come to mind)

 

[Tech Junky]

I never really looked at the warranty on cases up until this thread. It would seem that FD offers 2 years on their cases.

Warranty information

www.fractal-design.com

There's not a whole lot of discussion of cases breaking or warranties associated with replacements like there are with other build components.

 

[BoomerD]

I never really looked at the warranty on cases up until this thread. It would seem that FD offers 2 years on their cases.

Warranty information

www.fractal-design.com

There's not a whole lot of discussion of cases breaking or warranties associated with replacements like there are with other build components.

Well...unless you're lugging them to LAN parties, they really SHOULDN'T break...
Looking at a variety of cases, it seems like MOST offer 2 or 3 years. That's reasonable, IMO.

Anyway, I think I just scored an almost brand-new Be Quiet! Dark Base Pro 900 for the new build. That monster will accommodate a ton of radiator/fan options.

 

[Tech Junky]

lugging them to LAN parties,

I suspect nerds doing this sort of thing would be using more portable options than an ATX tower. Something that has a handle or fits into a bag for transport. Then again I suspect most would just use a laptop at this point. The picture that comes to mind when someone mentions a LAN party is D&D nerds in a basement in costume.

 

[BoomerD]

So, I picked up a slightly used Be Quiet Dark Base Pro 900 case yesterday for dirt cheap. ($100 + $40 in gas to go get it) I LIKE this case for a lot of reasons, but it is a bit closed off, so I'm gonna have to figure out ways to improve airflow.
Now...back to hardware...

Since the Gigabyte Aorus AX DDR4 board is apparently not great...how about some recommendations?
I'd prefer one with BIOS flashback so I can use a 13th gen processor. (no 12th gen available to get started) WiFi on board, ATX (or E-ATX), DDR4, 2 or 3 M.2 connections, no less than 6 USB-A ports on the rear IO, and 6 or more SATAIII ports on the board.

I like the ASUS ROG StrixZ690-A Gaming DDR4 board, but that's not compatible with the NOCTUA air coolers. Until I figure out the airflow issues in the top of the DBP900 case, I'm hesitant to jump into an AIO cooler.
I'll add more as it comes to me.

EDIT: So...reading the reviews on many of the major z690 and z790 boards, it seems like they ALL have 1-star reviews for stupid things...dead boards, dead RAM slots, faulty USB functionality, whatever.

 

[BoomerD]

So, I picked up a slightly used Be Quiet Dark Base Pro 900 case yesterday for dirt cheap. ($100 + $40 in gas to go get it) I LIKE this case for a lot of reasons, but it is a bit closed off, so I'm gonna have to figure out ways to improve airflow.
Now...back to hardware...

Since the Gigabyte Aorus AX DDR4 board is apparently not great...how about some recommendations?
I'd prefer one with BIOS flashback so I can use a 13th gen processor. (no 12th gen available to get started) WiFi on board, ATX (or E-ATX), DDR4, 2 or 3 M.2 connections, no less than 6 USB-A ports on the rear IO, and 6 or more SATAIII ports on the board.

I like the ASUS ROG StrixZ690-A Gaming DDR4 board, but that's not compatible with the NOCTUA air coolers. Until I figure out the airflow issues in the top of the DBP900 case, I'm hesitant to jump into an AIO cooler.
I'll add more as it comes to me.

EDIT: So...reading the reviews on many of the major z690 and z790 boards, it seems like they ALL have 1-star reviews for stupid things...dead boards, dead RAM slots, faulty USB functionality, whatever.

What the heck? I soent several hours on Tuesday night reaearching motherboards that should work with my planned setup.
ATX, Socket LGA1700, Z690 and Z790, DDR4 (and some DDR5) WiFi, and 6 SATA ports
Every one of them with at least 10 reviews had a large percentage of DOA, received broken, received with M.2 screw post not attached, or some other manufacturing defect...plus several that were sold as new, but were obviously not. (missing CPU socket cover, still covered with TIM, etc.)
I know a lot of these reported problems are likely to be from people who had no idea what they were doing and fckd up the board trying to install the CPU, but I shouldn't think that would be more than maybe 25%.
Do any of the board manufacturers even give a crap about build quality any more?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Anything wrong with these?

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

 

[In2Photos]

I would simply buy the board that has the features you want. There are going to be bad reviews for every product. And some of it may be user error. I think the latest gen stuff is just a little more finicky than previous generations. When I built my son's Ryzen 5000 system last year it was very straight forward, no issues at all. Just built my daughter a Ryzen 7000 series and had some trouble with the memory not wanting to post. After a BIOS update and some moving of the memory around on the board it finally just posted (with everything back in the original spot). I don't feel like it should have been that tough (took an extra hour or so). So I've bought an MSI B550 Tomahawk and a Gigabyte B650 Auros Elite AX. I prefer the BIOS in the MSI, but the Gigabyte gave us more bang for our buck.