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2020 report sees India, China as top powers

2020 report sees India, China as top powers

By Jonathan S. Landay
KNIGHT RIDDER NEWS SERVICE

January 14, 2005

LANGLEY, Va. ? The world of 2020 is likely to be one in which Asia is the main engine of the global economy, India and China are major powers and al-Qaeda-inspired Islamist movements have spread to Muslim communities outside the Middle East, a U.S. intelligence report said yesterday.

The United States will remain "the single most important country across all dimensions of power," but wield less authority than it does now because of the greater influence of India, China and possibly other nations such as Brazil and Indonesia.

"Although the challenges ahead will be daunting, the United States will retain enormous advantages, playing a pivotal role across the broad range of issues ? economic, technological, political and military ? that no other state will match by 2020," said the report, "Mapping the Global Future."

It was the third in a series of unclassified forecasts of global trends published by the National Intelligence Council, a group of senior intelligence analysts who report to CIA Director Porter Goss but aren't technically part of the spy agency. The earlier reports were for 2010 and 2015.

Their forecasts for 2020 were based on consultations with more than 1,000 nongovernment experts at 30 conferences on five continents over the past year.

According to the report, the main driver of world trends will be globalization, the ever-expanding international flows of goods, services, capital, people and information.

Barring wide-ranging war or a worldwide depression, the global economy is expected to be about 80 percent larger in 2020 than it was in 2000, with average per capita income roughly 50 percent more.

Yet while more people will prosper, there will still be many places that are poor and unstable, particularly in the Middle East, sub-Saharan Africa and parts of Latin America, the report said.

China and India are likely to be among the leading beneficiaries of globalization, in part because of their low-cost labor and high-technology capabilities. Many of their people, however, will remain poor.

By 2020, China's gross domestic product, the total value of goods and services, will be greater than that of any Western country except the United States, and India's GDP will have overtaken or will be about to overtake European economies.

The threat of terrorism will remain high.

"Our greatest concern is that terrorists might acquire biological agents, or less likely, a nuclear device, either of which could cause mass casualties," the report said. Terrorists will continue to rely primarily on conventional weapons, it said.

"There is a substantial risk that broad Islamic extremist movements akin to al-Qaeda will merge with local separatist movements," it continued. The spread of radical Islam beyond the Middle East will be made possible by global communications.

The report presented one scenario, dubbed "The New Caliphate," in which an obscure Islamic cleric emerges to lead a worldwide Islamic movement.

----------

Remember, we'll still be the worlds leading country in 2020, however other countries are rising fast. We must adopt to change and realize our role in the world.
 
No sh|t sherlock. The time of American hegemony is coming to a end. (When most countries are on an equal footing, population becomes a key factor. The most powerful countries will be the ones with the largest populations). The sad thing is the US should be building an international infrastructure that will mitigate the future power of such behemoths. The aburd thing is that the current administration is creating a framework where might makes right--- and we won't have the monopoly on might for much longer.
 
Economically they will have the upperhand.
That always happens in a growth cycle.

US and the rest of the 1st world have saturated their resources.
India and China will be the biggest players...and only makes sense as ~40% of the people on the planet live there...

Lifestyle changes will be needed by us and them as resources are scarce and we will all need to compete for them.
There is no way that at current pace of energy consumption and waste will china or india ever see the conditions we live in today.
Hell we might not see the conditions we live in today.

To be top powers they need to form strong relationships to make resource based countries want to deal with these consumers. Resources are the only that will make or break any country in the future.
With the US pissing off the ME i can see their support heading in the direction of the East...but it is not too late to stop this trend (although it has begun with iran...they have recently contracted out $200bil in oil to china)

Should be an interesting show. I hope that india and china are trying to improve living standards and not just use growth as a means to build weaponry and military.
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
I hope that india and china are trying to improve living standards and not just use growth as a means to build weaponry and military.

The US isn't setting a good precedent in this regard.
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Stunt
I hope that india and china are trying to improve living standards and not just use growth as a means to build weaponry and military.

The US isn't setting a good precedent in this regard.

But we have the best standard of living dont we? Top three in per capita income??

*edit*

I am responding to this specific question.
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
Economically they will have the upperhand.
That always happens in a growth cycle.

US and the rest of the 1st world have saturated their resources.
India and China will be the biggest players...and only makes sense as ~40% of the people on the planet live there...

Lifestyle changes will be needed by us and them as resources are scarce and we will all need to compete for them.
There is no way that at current pace of energy consumption and waste will china or india ever see the conditions we live in today.
Hell we might not see the conditions we live in today.

To be top powers they need to form strong relationships to make resource based countries want to deal with these consumers. Resources are the only that will make or break any country in the future.
With the US pissing off the ME i can see their support heading in the direction of the East...but it is not too late to stop this trend (although it has begun with iran...they have recently contracted out $200bil in oil to china)

Should be an interesting show. I hope that india and china are trying to improve living standards and not just use growth as a means to build weaponry and military.

I wouldn't bet on it.
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Stunt
I hope that india and china are trying to improve living standards and not just use growth as a means to build weaponry and military.

The US isn't setting a good precedent in this regard.

But we have the best standard of living dont we? Top three in per capita income??

Nevermind I misread stunt's post or it got edited.
 
I for one am glad that India is there to balance out China. Although China has moved towards economic liberalization, it is still under a politically repressive and corrupt regime. I see India, which is a Federal Republic and parliamentary democracy, as much more politically friendly towards the United States.

I suspect the next cold war may be between India and China as both sides compete for resources to feed their ever growing and demanding populations.
 
Originally posted by: Pandaren
I for one am glad that India is there to balance out China. Although China has moved towards economic liberalization, it is still under a politically repressive and corrupt regime. I see India, which is a Federal Republic and parliamentary democracy, as much more politically friendly towards the United States.

I suspect the next cold war may be between India and China as both sides compete for resources to feed their ever growing and demanding populations.
There's no way india can come out on top against china.
China is far more effective just because it is a communist regime.
It is able to divert resources directly to a mjor project with little fuss...unlike capitalist regimes where free market forces have to come into play for anyhting to get done.

Read this article...i found it very stimulating.
China...tomorrow's energy powerhouse

Not only that but China is smart...it realizes that oil is a scarce resource. They are currently mining vrey few of their own oil fields...they are buying the ME out of it first. Also, they are creating massive oil reserves. We are talking reserves that can feed all of china oil for 2 months with no imports. Not only that but they have international companies owned by the state buying up portions of such companies here in canada to develop tar sands techonology which could effectively give canada 1trillion barrels or oil and china considerable amounts as well.

Anyways i could go on forever about energy. 😛
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: Pandaren
I for one am glad that India is there to balance out China. Although China has moved towards economic liberalization, it is still under a politically repressive and corrupt regime. I see India, which is a Federal Republic and parliamentary democracy, as much more politically friendly towards the United States.

I suspect the next cold war may be between India and China as both sides compete for resources to feed their ever growing and demanding populations.
There's no way india can come out on top against china.
China is far more effective just because it is a communist regime.
It is able to divert resources directly to a mjor project with little fuss...unlike capitalist regimes where free market forces have to come into play for anyhting to get done.

Read this article...i found it very stimulating.
China...tomorrow's energy powerhouse

Not only that but China is smart...it realizes that oil is a scarce resource. They are currently mining vrey few of their own oil fields...they are buying the ME out of it first. Also, they are creating massive oil reserves. We are talking reserves that can feed all of china oil for 2 months with no imports. Not only that but they have international companies owned by the state buying up portions of such companies here in canada to develop tar sands techonology which could effectively give canada 1trillion barrels or oil and china considerable amounts as well.

Anyways i could go on forever about energy. 😛

umm no thats your opinion, many economists disagree with you and so do other people who study this. you have to look at long term.

and India is doing the same thing. they just signed a billion dollar pipeline deal that runs from Myanmar thru Bangladesh. could give you a link if you want
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: Pandaren
I for one am glad that India is there to balance out China. Although China has moved towards economic liberalization, it is still under a politically repressive and corrupt regime. I see India, which is a Federal Republic and parliamentary democracy, as much more politically friendly towards the United States.

I suspect the next cold war may be between India and China as both sides compete for resources to feed their ever growing and demanding populations.
There's no way india can come out on top against china.
China is far more effective just because it is a communist regime.
It is able to divert resources directly to a mjor project with little fuss...unlike capitalist regimes where free market forces have to come into play for anyhting to get done.

Read this article...i found it very stimulating.
China...tomorrow's energy powerhouse

Not only that but China is smart...it realizes that oil is a scarce resource. They are currently mining vrey few of their own oil fields...they are buying the ME out of it first. Also, they are creating massive oil reserves. We are talking reserves that can feed all of china oil for 2 months with no imports. Not only that but they have international companies owned by the state buying up portions of such companies here in canada to develop tar sands techonology which could effectively give canada 1trillion barrels or oil and china considerable amounts as well.

Anyways i could go on forever about energy. 😛

umm no thats your opinion, many economists disagree with you and so do other people who study this. you have to look at long term.
What are you disagreeing with?
Which 'theory' are you pointing out...all that info is paraphased facts 😛

PS read the article please...
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: Pandaren
I for one am glad that India is there to balance out China. Although China has moved towards economic liberalization, it is still under a politically repressive and corrupt regime. I see India, which is a Federal Republic and parliamentary democracy, as much more politically friendly towards the United States.

I suspect the next cold war may be between India and China as both sides compete for resources to feed their ever growing and demanding populations.
There's no way india can come out on top against china.
China is far more effective just because it is a communist regime.
It is able to divert resources directly to a mjor project with little fuss...unlike capitalist regimes where free market forces have to come into play for anyhting to get done.

Read this article...i found it very stimulating.
China...tomorrow's energy powerhouse

Not only that but China is smart...it realizes that oil is a scarce resource. They are currently mining vrey few of their own oil fields...they are buying the ME out of it first. Also, they are creating massive oil reserves. We are talking reserves that can feed all of china oil for 2 months with no imports. Not only that but they have international companies owned by the state buying up portions of such companies here in canada to develop tar sands techonology which could effectively give canada 1trillion barrels or oil and china considerable amounts as well.

Anyways i could go on forever about energy. 😛

umm no thats your opinion, many economists disagree with you and so do other people who study this. you have to look at long term.
What are you disagreeing with?
Which 'theory' are you pointing out...all that info is paraphased facts 😛

PS read the article please...

that India cant come on top of China.
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
that India cant come on top of China.

Oh economically i suppose india could come out on top...
But again the limiting factor is energy...we all know this.

So please inform me without your opinion...it is rather worthless when we are talking energy.
Fill me on all the infrastructure india is implementing to set themselves up for a superpower economy.

You do realize the energy required to get things off the ground in these countries right?

China has plans for massive hydro projects, a full out nuclear plan, investigating hydrogen technologies, are out bidding and creating contracts with the people india is trying to make deals with on the oil front.

From an energy side china will be the powerhouse...unless you can help me question this through some quality india information 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: raildogg
that India cant come on top of China.

Oh economically i suppose india could come out on top...
But again the limiting factor is energy...we all know this.

So please inform me without your opinion...it is rather worthless when we are talking energy.
Fill me on all the infrastructure india is implementing to set themselves up for a superpower economy.

You do realize the energy required to get things off the ground in these countries right?

China has plans for massive hydro projects, a full out nuclear plan, investigating hydrogen technologies, are out bidding and creating contracts with the people india is trying to make deals with on the oil front.

From an energy side china will be the powerhouse...unless you can help me question this through some quality india information 🙂

well India has been discovering energy sources of its own, its not a great deal but still a good amount. Believe off shore near one of its states

read some reports that India needs to spend 300 billion over the next 15 years to meet its energy needs and there are some plans for that, although not clear

this is a good article, although India just completed the deal with Myanmar and Bangladesh, so its slightly outdated
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: raildogg
that India cant come on top of China.

Oh economically i suppose india could come out on top...
But again the limiting factor is energy...we all know this.

So please inform me without your opinion...it is rather worthless when we are talking energy.
Fill me on all the infrastructure india is implementing to set themselves up for a superpower economy.

You do realize the energy required to get things off the ground in these countries right?

China has plans for massive hydro projects, a full out nuclear plan, investigating hydrogen technologies, are out bidding and creating contracts with the people india is trying to make deals with on the oil front.

From an energy side china will be the powerhouse...unless you can help me question this through some quality india information 🙂

well India has been discovering energy sources of its own, its not a great deal but still a good amount. Believe off shore near one of its states

read some reports that India needs to spend 300 billion over the next 15 years to meet its energy needs and there are some plans for that, although not clear

this is a good article, although India just completed the deal with Myanmar and Bangladesh, so its slightly outdated
So make oil pipelines?
What if they are getting out bid by china and the rest of the first world?

Plus the pakistan gov't doesnt seem too in on this plan. Why would they want india to grow economically. They are practically sworn enimies.

If that's india's energy plan...they are going to get fvcked by china...pardon my french 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: raildogg
that India cant come on top of China.

Oh economically i suppose india could come out on top...
But again the limiting factor is energy...we all know this.

So please inform me without your opinion...it is rather worthless when we are talking energy.
Fill me on all the infrastructure india is implementing to set themselves up for a superpower economy.

You do realize the energy required to get things off the ground in these countries right?

China has plans for massive hydro projects, a full out nuclear plan, investigating hydrogen technologies, are out bidding and creating contracts with the people india is trying to make deals with on the oil front.

From an energy side china will be the powerhouse...unless you can help me question this through some quality india information 🙂

well India has been discovering energy sources of its own, its not a great deal but still a good amount. Believe off shore near one of its states

read some reports that India needs to spend 300 billion over the next 15 years to meet its energy needs and there are some plans for that, although not clear

this is a good article, although India just completed the deal with Myanmar and Bangladesh, so its slightly outdated
So make oil pipelines?
What if they are getting out bid by china and the rest of the first world?

Plus the pakistan gov't doesnt seem too in on this plan. Why would they want india to grow economically. They are practically sworn enimies.

If that's india's energy plan...they are going to get fvcked by china...pardon my french 🙂

I dont see it that way. India and China relations have vastly improved the past few years, China's leader is going to visit India soon and I believe India's defense minister was there recently.

I dont know whats India's plan is, but that it needs to spend 300 billion to meet its needs over the next 15 years. here's another article
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Stunt
I hope that india and china are trying to improve living standards and not just use growth as a means to build weaponry and military.

The US isn't setting a good precedent in this regard.

But we have the best standard of living dont we? Top three in per capita income??

*edit*

I am responding to this specific question.


#3 in mean income.

But if you use median income we fall out of the top 10.

Some "standard of living" indexes drop us out of the top 20, but those are more subjective.


Anyways the power of these states will not last long when they find themsleves unable to feed their populations. Peak Oil will not be fun in that perspective.
 
Given the fact that China has a very aggressive overseas energy policy and that India is its strategic competitor in the region both militarily and economically specially in acquiring overseas energy stakes, India needs to be concerned about is interests in Sudan.

India currently gets 60,000 b/d of oil from Sudan and it is expected to rise to 200,000 b/d by 2009. This expectation could be shattered by another potential problem, namely, the Chinese presence in Sudan. China has reportedly invested US $20 billion in Sudan apart from soft loans, grant and other forms of aid. Besides its huge investment in Sudan, the London Telegraph reported in 2000, China also has a large ?military? presence in Sudan.(700,000 troops)

all from your article.
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
Given the fact that China has a very aggressive overseas energy policy and that India is its strategic competitor in the region both militarily and economically specially in acquiring overseas energy stakes, India needs to be concerned about is interests in Sudan.

India currently gets 60,000 b/d of oil from Sudan and it is expected to rise to 200,000 b/d by 2009. This expectation could be shattered by another potential problem, namely, the Chinese presence in Sudan. China has reportedly invested US $20 billion in Sudan apart from soft loans, grant and other forms of aid. Besides its huge investment in Sudan, the London Telegraph reported in 2000, China also has a large ?military? presence in Sudan.(700,000 troops)

all from your article.

no i was just giving you some info about India's energy plans etc. Sure China is ahead at the moment, its much more aggressive, but India can catch up
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Stunt
Given the fact that China has a very aggressive overseas energy policy and that India is its strategic competitor in the region both militarily and economically specially in acquiring overseas energy stakes, India needs to be concerned about is interests in Sudan.

India currently gets 60,000 b/d of oil from Sudan and it is expected to rise to 200,000 b/d by 2009. This expectation could be shattered by another potential problem, namely, the Chinese presence in Sudan. China has reportedly invested US $20 billion in Sudan apart from soft loans, grant and other forms of aid. Besides its huge investment in Sudan, the London Telegraph reported in 2000, China also has a large ?military? presence in Sudan.(700,000 troops)

all from your article.

no i was just giving you some info about India's energy plans etc. Sure China is ahead at the moment, its much more aggressive, but India can catch up
I dunno man...how many troops does india have in sudan...and they are offering $2bil for the oil...china is throwing much more at them. It's that whole out-bidding thing i was talking about 😉
Close to a million troops is a huge amount. Sudan's army = 60,000 troops

Sudan's your trump card eh?...hrm...o...k... 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Stunt
Given the fact that China has a very aggressive overseas energy policy and that India is its strategic competitor in the region both militarily and economically specially in acquiring overseas energy stakes, India needs to be concerned about is interests in Sudan.

India currently gets 60,000 b/d of oil from Sudan and it is expected to rise to 200,000 b/d by 2009. This expectation could be shattered by another potential problem, namely, the Chinese presence in Sudan. China has reportedly invested US $20 billion in Sudan apart from soft loans, grant and other forms of aid. Besides its huge investment in Sudan, the London Telegraph reported in 2000, China also has a large ?military? presence in Sudan.(700,000 troops)

all from your article.

no i was just giving you some info about India's energy plans etc. Sure China is ahead at the moment, its much more aggressive, but India can catch up
I dunno man...how many troops does india have in sudan...and they are offering $2bil for the oil...china is throwing much more at them. It's that whole out-bidding thing i was talking about 😉
Close to a million troops is a huge amount. Sudan's army = 60,000 troops

Sudan's your trump card eh?...hrm...o...k... 🙂

wait, thats totally wrong. These are laborers, not soldiers. There is a difference.

and I just used that as a example that India too is looking around for its energy needs and not sitting back. also India and China have different types of needs, they do share a lot of similarities though, but one thing does not always fit the other
 
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