2020 census to include citizenship question

[imported_tajmahal]

That article doesn't really help your case. How maybe if you found 5-10k more cases you'd have a point.

That's a pretty stupid thing for anyone to claim, even an ignorant dipshit like yourself.
http://mentalfloss.com/article/59873/10-elections-decided-one-vote-or-less

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Widespread voter fraud doesn't exist. Whenever you put these voter fraud proponents under oath they have to admit their position is bullshit ala Pennsylvania.

Ohh, now it suddenly becomes "widespead" That's not what Jhhnn claimed, he said it didn't exist at all.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

From reading the posts here, it sounds as though very few of the respondents have actually participated in a Census or have a clue as to what is asked.

The Census is taken every 10 years, with 2020 being the next.
It is designed to be answered be all residents of the US, it's possessions and territories, with a claimed 99% penetration rate.
There are generally 2 Census forms, a long form and short form, which are sent at random.
Short forms at usually 8-10 questions, while long forms are 30-80 questions.
Some years only 1 of those forms are sent, 2010 was such a year and only short forms were sent out, indicating that 2020 will most probably see both long and short forms sent out once again.

The American Community Survey is done yearly to collect additional data to supplement the Census. It has a designed penetration of 1 in 6.

Asking about citizenship is not a new question, and has been on the Census before, notably without objections.
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/27/597436512/fact-check-has-citizenship-been-a-standard-census-question

And for those that think it is an intrusive question, here are the Census and ACS questions from recent surveys.
https://www.census.gov/history/www/through_the_decades/index_of_questions/2010.html
https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/acs/methodology/questionnaires/2017/quest17.pdf

Thank you for a most reasonable and informative post.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

From this post is is clear you don’t know what you’re talking about. The citizenship question has not been asked by the census for nearly 70 years. Characterizing that as ‘not a new question’ is at best highly misleading.

You are the one being misleading , it's been asked fairly recently on the long form.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

What's the upside to asking people their race? What tribe they belong to? How about their gender? Shit, we've been told that gender is fluid and can change at the snap of a finger yet an individual has to pick one for the census?

Start lobbying for the above criteria to be eliminated and then we'll know you're serious.

Damn, cracked me up.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Probably the funniest part is how the slave states wanted nonvoting noncitizens counted back then for congressional seats but not now.

I think the funniest part is how urban centers now rationalize their present day undocumented exploitable labor, which is a modern form of slavery

 

[nickqt]

I think the funniest part is how urban centers now rationalize their present day undocumented exploitable labor, which is a modern form of slavery

So working a job and getting a shitty wage is now slavery? So you support a higher minimum wage? Or you just don't like that undocumented people are able to get work by getting paid under-the-table by GloriousPrivateEnterprise contractors?

 

[Starbuck1975]

So working a job and getting a shitty wage is now slavery? So you support a higher minimum wage? Or you just don't like that undocumented people are able to get work by getting paid under-the-table by GloriousPrivateEnterprise contractors?

Exploitation of migrant workers without a path to citizenship is slavery.

Not only do I support a higher minimum wage, but I also support the penalization of companies that exploit migrant labor. I also support guest worker programs and reform for paths to citizenship.

I don’t think blue staters will like having to pay livable wages for their landscapers and handymen and nannies and housecleaners and hand car washes, nor will they like the price impact on groceries.

 

[Jhhnn]

Ohh, now it suddenly becomes "widespead" That's not what Jhhnn claimed, he said it didn't exist at all.

I said voter fraud is insignificant. It also has nothing to do with the census.

 

[Jhhnn]

Exploitation of migrant workers without a path to citizenship is slavery.

Not only do I support a higher minimum wage, but I also support the penalization of companies that exploit migrant labor. I also support guest worker programs and reform for paths to citizenship.

I don’t think blue staters will like having to pay livable wages for their landscapers and handymen and nannies and housecleaners and hand car washes, nor will they like the price impact on groceries.

We're volunteering to pay more. Few of us have nannies, btw.

 

[ivwshane]

Exploitation of migrant workers without a path to citizenship is slavery.

Not only do I support a higher minimum wage, but I also support the penalization of companies that exploit migrant labor. I also support guest worker programs and reform for paths to citizenship.

I don’t think blue staters will like having to pay livable wages for their landscapers and handymen and nannies and housecleaners and hand car washes, nor will they like the price impact on groceries.

Why are you so fucking stupid? Serious question.

You do realize that the cost of living is higher in blue states, right? You do realize that it's Democrats and blue states that have pushed for and have a higher minimum wage, right? You do realize that it's the left that supports a path to citizenship and programs that are specifically designed to bring out illegals from the shadows so that they can be properly paid and pay taxes, right?

This is some basic shit that anyone with a hint of interest in today's current politics understands.

I really don't get you, are you trying to out boomerang boomerang? Because you are doing a really good job of it.

 

[nickqt]

Why are you so fucking stupid? Serious question.

You do realize that the cost of living is higher in blue states, right? You do realize that it's Democrats and blue states that have pushed for and have a higher minimum wage, right? You do realize that it's the left that supports a path to citizenship and programs that are specifically designed to bring out illegals from the shadows so that they can be properly paid and pay taxes, right?

This is some basic shit that anyone with a hint of interest in today's current politics understands.

I really don't get you, are you trying to out boomerang boomerang? Because you are doing a really good job of it.

He’s very, very concerned that libruuls aren’t libruul enough.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Why are you so fucking stupid? Serious question.

I was raised by someone like you

You do realize that blah blah blah

And despite all that support, they’ve not implemented much of anything. You do realize that blue states have the worst wealth disparity in the country? You do realize that blue states also have the worst homelessness? You do realize that despite their advocacy for social justice, white collar NIMBYist liberals really don’t care to live amongst the working class, and would rather gentrify them out of sight. Because I spend the majority of my life around white collar liberals, I see soccer moms with “I’m With Her” t-shirts fight against low income housing projects in their affluent suburbs, using all the same race dog whistle reasons that conservatives use. Because I’ve seen affluent blue state liberals abandon the blue collar working class in favor of Wall Street, and sold us out to China. Because educated blue state liberals place dogmatic and naive faith in technology, and look where that got us. Because educated blue state preach against misogyny and the patriarchy, and yet celebrate people like Bill Clinton and Antonio Villaraigosa as leaders of their party. Because affluent blue state liberals are great at talking, listening not so much.

And yes, conservatives are objectively worst. Congratulations on claiming the high ground on Mount Derp.

This is some basic shit that anyone with a hint of interest in today's politics understands

Then what’s your excuse? You used to be an intelligent poster until Trump Derangement Syndrome warped your perspective.

 

[Jhhnn]

At least 12 states plan to sue. The justification from the White House is "protecting the voters"-

The White House press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, said in a briefing that the decision to gather citizenship data through the decennial census was “necessary for the Department of Justice to protect voters.”

“I think that it is going to determine the individuals in our country, and provide information that allows us to comply with our own laws and with our own procedures,” she said.

Protection from the voter fraud boogeyman, apparently. Quite how that works remains vague, to say the least. Kee-rist- she even intimated that the info will be used for immigration enforcement.

There's also the issue that people who run the census don't want it & that it was just shoved in there at the last minute.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/us/census-citizenship-question.html?action=click&contentCollection=us&module=NextInCollection&region=Footer&pgtype=article&version=spotlight&rref=collection/spotlight/race

The GOP base loves it, of course.

 

[ivwshane]

I was raised by someone like you

Some guy on a political forum? I don't doubt it. You aren't right in the head.

And despite all that support, they’ve not implemented much of anything. You do realize that blue states have the worst wealth disparity in the country? You do realize that blue states also have the worst homelessness? You do realize that despite their advocacy for social justice, white collar NIMBYist liberals really don’t care to live amongst the working class, and would rather gentrify them out of sight. Because I spend the majority of my life around white collar liberals, I see soccer moms with “I’m With Her” t-shirts fight against low income housing projects in their affluent suburbs, using all the same race dog whistle reasons that conservatives use. Because I’ve seen affluent blue state liberals abandon the blue collar working class in favor of Wall Street, and sold us out to China. Because educated blue state liberals place dogmatic and naive faith in technology, and look where that got us. Because educated blue state preach against misogyny and the patriarchy, and yet celebrate people like Bill Clinton and Antonio Villaraigosa as leaders of their party. Because affluent blue state liberals are great at talking, listening not so much.

And yes, conservatives are objectively worst. Congratulations on claiming the high ground on Mount Derp.


Then what’s your excuse? You used to be an intelligent poster until Trump Derangement Syndrome warped your perspective.

Do you even hear yourself? I point out the inaccuracies in your original argument and you come back with, well dems haven't solved ALL the problems! Well no shit they haven't but it's because dumb asses like you who are too fucking lazy to see and handle reality that you "both sides" the shit out of every thread.

Trump derangement syndrome? I didn't even mention trump! That's how fucked up in the head you are! I countered your dumb ass claim and you came back with, "both sides".

I could be on mount derp and you'd still over tower me as the king of bullshit mountain.

Wake the fuck up!

 

[Starbuck1975]

Do you even hear yourself? I point out the inaccuracies in your original argument and you come back with, well dems haven't solved ALL the problems! Well no shit they haven't but it's because dumb asses like you who are too fucking lazy to see and handle reality that you "both sides" the shit out of every thread.

Trump derangement syndrome? I didn't even mention trump! That's how fucked up in the head you are! I countered your dumb ass claim and you came back with, "both sides".

I could be on mount derp and you'd still over tower me as the king of bullshit mountain.

Wake the fuck up!

Mirrors are sometimes painful in what they reveal.

 

[HomerJS]

Ohh, now it suddenly becomes "widespead" That's not what Jhhnn claimed, he said it didn't exist at all.

Its always been widespread numb nuts. Doesn't exist at all is statistically 0. You can't get the number to absolute 0. Its the same reason a certain level of arsenic is in your drinking water. Its cost prohibitive to get it to absolute 0 and trace amounts are harmless.

But you already knew the argument was widespread. You play an Academy Award level of stupid.

 

[Lanyap]

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but the number of representatives in the electoral college that elect the president and VP is based on the census numbers. If non-citizens complete the form then they are counted in the numbers to determine the number of EC representatives for each state. The increased count could give some states with a high number of non-citizens more EC reps which makes non-citizens an indirect part of the voting process. Why not make a citizen box optional on the census? Count the checked citizens box for the EC process and all census forms for total population for other purposes.

I don't believe the writers of the constitution expected our country to have so many illegal immigrants that now greatly impacts the governmental process and country they set up.

 

[umbrella39]

Ohh, now it suddenly becomes "widespead" That's not what Jhhnn claimed, he said it didn't exist at all.

It does and doesn't... It really only exists in two places, in the minds of GOP faithful and when the mind can't contain it, it spills out and they go to the polls and vote more than once and get caught every time...

 

[ivwshane]

Mirrors are sometimes painful in what they reveal.

Indeed.

 

[Jhhnn]

Do you even hear yourself? I point out the inaccuracies in your original argument and you come back with, well dems haven't solved ALL the problems! Well no shit they haven't but it's because dumb asses like you who are too fucking lazy to see and handle reality that you "both sides" the shit out of every thread.

Trump derangement syndrome? I didn't even mention trump! That's how fucked up in the head you are! I countered your dumb ass claim and you came back with, "both sides".

I could be on mount derp and you'd still over tower me as the king of bullshit mountain.

Wake the fuck up!

He's just doing what he always does- duh-verting & tearing down the dirty Democrats.

He didn't even mention the census in that most recent post...

 

[Brainonska511]

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but the number of representatives in the electoral college that elect the president and VP is based on the census numbers. If non-citizens complete the form then they are counted in the numbers to determine the number of EC representatives for each state. The increased count could give some states with a high number of non-citizens more EC reps which makes non-citizens an indirect part of the voting process. Why not make a citizen box optional on the census? Count the checked citizens box for the EC process and all census forms for total population for other purposes.

I don't believe the writers of the constitution expected our country to have so many illegal immigrants that now greatly impacts the governmental process and country they set up.

The FFs, if they cared to make a distinct between citizens and persons, they would have. It explicitly says persons for enumeration. Remember, at the time of the Constitution, there would be many people not considered for full voting rights or even citizenship, like native Americans, women, free blacks, and slaves, yet they were still counted.

 

[ivwshane]

The FFs, if they cared to make a distinct between citizens and persons, they would have. It explicitly says persons for enumeration. Remember, at the time of the Constitution, there would be many people not considered for full voting rights or even citizenship, like native Americans, women, free blacks, and slaves, yet they were still counted.

Actually they weren't counted. Eventually they were and blacks were counted as 3/5 of a person. Despite the periods acceptance of sexism and racism/slavery they did understand that the country was a nation of immigrants.


But your point still stands its kind of hard to have a repressive democracy if you don't know who or how many you are representing which is why getting an accurate count is more important than getting data on only a sub set of the population.

 

[Jhhnn]

Actually they weren't counted. Eventually they were and blacks were counted as 3/5 of a person. Despite the periods acceptance of sexism and racism/slavery they did understand that the country was a nation of immigrants.


But your point still stands its kind of hard to have a repressive democracy if you don't know who or how many you are representing which is why getting an accurate count is more important than getting data on only a sub set of the population.

Not quite. Slaves were counted as individuals but assigned a 3/5 value for the purposes of congressional apportionment in the first census of 1790, a year after the Constitution was established-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1790_United_States_Census

 

[imported_tajmahal]

So working a job and getting a shitty wage is now slavery? So you support a higher minimum wage? Or you just don't like that undocumented people are able to get work by getting paid under-the-table by GloriousPrivateEnterprise contractors?

Usually it's paid under the table private individuals. People that write checks or pay cash for lawn services, physical labor, maid services, nanny services etc.