2020 census to include citizenship question

[imported_tajmahal]

It does and doesn't... It really only exists in two places, in the minds of GOP faithful and when the mind can't contain it, it spills out and they go to the polls and vote more than once and get caught every time...

1,071 cases of voter fraud. Not all of them are by illegals though, check them out for yourself. You can even double check their accuracy.

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/voter-fraud-database-tops-1000-proven-cases

"On Thursday, The Heritage Foundation is releasing a new edition of its Voter Fraud Database. Featuring well over 100 new cases, the database documents 1,071 instances of voter fraud spanning 47 states, including 938 criminal convictions."

 

[HomerJS]

1,071 cases of voter fraud. Not all of them are by illegals though, check them out for yourself. You can even double check their accuracy.

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/voter-fraud-database-tops-1000-proven-cases

"On Thursday, The Heritage Foundation is releasing a new edition of its Voter Fraud Database. Featuring well over 100 new cases, the database documents 1,071 instances of voter fraud spanning 47 states, including 938 criminal convictions."

Hmmm single source numbers from Heritage?? I don't think so. In their own article they don'e even cite the time period for their "numbers".

Here are the results of 9 different investigations including the Bush administration
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...und-virtually-nothing/?utm_term=.f3b865db8b27

List of bipartisan statements on so called voter fraud
http://www.brennancenter.org/quotes-on-voter-fraud

Please go back to your bridge

 

[ivwshane]

Not quite. Slaves were counted as individuals but assigned a 3/5 value for the purposes of congressional apportionment in the first census of 1790, a year after the Constitution was established-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1790_United_States_Census

Thank you!

 

[umbrella39]

1,071 cases of voter fraud. Not all of them are by illegals though, check them out for yourself. You can even double check their accuracy.

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/voter-fraud-database-tops-1000-proven-cases

"On Thursday, The Heritage Foundation is releasing a new edition of its Voter Fraud Database. Featuring well over 100 new cases, the database documents 1,071 instances of voter fraud spanning 47 states, including 938 criminal convictions."

I think they and now you, too, are confused by the words fraud, irregularities, and the whole concept of "in Person Voter Fraud" which really is the crux of the who "argument" to begin with and not at ALL what Heritage has compiled. If you use your link and check the individual convictions by State you see a whole hell of a lot of ballot petition frauds, false registrations, and quite a few buying of votes surprisingly enough and hell and even 1 person from my state who in 2008 tried to vote for Obama despite knowing full well she was not a US citizen and could not vote legally.

What I am not seeing is voter fraud on election day.

I don't have the time to go through all the States but from what I noticed from my State and a few of the others I checked there really isn't any appreciable fraud taking place in the booths and when it DOES take place... is caught immediately...

Absentee voting is where I would think the biggest concern should be. Anyone can fill in demented grandmas card and send it in. Trump supporter, Hillary supporter, etc...

But grandma LOVED Hillary... she would have wanted it this way!

 

[OutHouse]

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but the number of representatives in the electoral college that elect the president and VP is based on the census numbers. If non-citizens complete the form then they are counted in the numbers to determine the number of EC representatives for each state. The increased count could give some states with a high number of non-citizens more EC reps which makes non-citizens an indirect part of the voting process. Why not make a citizen box optional on the census? Count the checked citizens box for the EC process and all census forms for total population for other purposes.

I don't believe the writers of the constitution expected our country to have so many illegal immigrants that now greatly impacts the governmental process and country they set up.

thank you for a great post.

 

[nickqt]

1,071 cases of voter fraud. Not all of them are by illegals though, check them out for yourself. You can even double check their accuracy.

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/voter-fraud-database-tops-1000-proven-cases

"On Thursday, The Heritage Foundation is releasing a new edition of its Voter Fraud Database. Featuring well over 100 new cases, the database documents 1,071 instances of voter fraud spanning 47 states, including 938 criminal convictions."

Committed on purpose or accident? By how many people intentionally! How many as fraud rather than mistake?

Over how long?

Where?

Don’t just post some link. Explain how this massive voter fraud explosion was orchestrated to turn elections.

Or this just a tally of voter mistakes that people who are scared of their own shadows are now nailing against the voting booth doors to protest their continued electoral suppression.

Please, explain it. Champ.

Edit: I feel what I just said will sail over the chumps I’m directing it at. I hope that imagery and historical connotation was appreciated by someone.

 

[jackstar7]

I don't believe the writers of the constitution expected our country to have so many illegal immigrants...

Favorite thing I've read here in weeks.

Hilarious.

 

[pcgeek11]

Look at all these liberals scared of a boogeyman:




https://www.motherjones.com/politic...is-with-move-to-suppress-immigrant-responses/


The point of the census, which you idiot partisan hacks don't get, is to get an accurate count of ALL people. PERIOD. Its an unnecessary question that would lead to an inaccurate count, PERIOD.

Your stupidity continues to amaze me. Keep carrying that water, boy.

Well anyway it looks like They nor You get to decide the questions on the census. It's not like it has never been asked before on a census. Nor is it likely that we get an accurate count of the illegal aliens in the country anyway. Chances are most or a vast majority do not participate regardless of the questions asked.

 

[pcgeek11]

Moving the goal posts.

Do you think asking this question will lead to a more accurate count of who lives in the US or a less accurate count? As the purpose of the census is to get as accurate a count as possible if the answer is ‘less’ then it should not be included. Period.

I would say neither more or less as most illegal aliens do not even participate for fear of deportation IMO. There is no real way to quantify the effects good or bad, with or without a citizenship question. It would all be guesswork.

 

[pcgeek11]

Its not legal to enact policies for the purposes of disenfranchising people. The constitution mandates everyone be counted.

Then again like most Republican policies going back to the 50s seems in their wheelhouse.

That is your opinion about the purpose and not a fact.

 

[pcgeek11]

It's funny how slaves could be counted for the census but now illegals can't.

They can and will be counted if THEY participate. Nobody is saying that they will not be counted if they are not a citizen.

 

[pcgeek11]

Because they aren’t stupid?

They stand nothing to gain personally by answering the census and now they are revealing to a government official that they are here illegally. Sure the law says none of that can be used for immigration enforcement but if your entire livelihood and the life you know depended on people following that law would you make that bet? I know I wouldn’t.

That is why they probably do not participte at all.

 

[pcgeek11]

It's like you don't even care about the logic of your initial argument. "Oh, it means they will just not count themselves, thus trashing my explanation? ...well, that's their fault!"

No, you are incorrect. Do you think the majority of illegals participate in the census regardless of this question.

 

[ivwshane]

I would say neither more or less as most illegal aliens do not even participate for fear of deportation IMO. There is no real way to quantify the effects good or bad, with or without a citizenship question. It would all be guesswork.

And this is based on what exactly?

 

[pcgeek11]

And this is based on what exactly?

My opinion as I stated in the post. " IMO"

Do you know of a way to Quantify the effects of the question when you do not know how many illegals participate in the census or how many do not?

 

[ivwshane]

My opinion as I stated in the post. " IMO"

Do you know of a way to Quantify the effects of the question when you do not know how many illegals participate in the census or how many do not?

Do I? No, which is why I relied on people who have actual experience with this (which you conveniently ignored) as per the link I provided originally.

 

[pcgeek11]

Do I? No, which is why I relied on people who have actual experience with this (which you conveniently ignored) as per the link I provided originally.

I didn't ignore anything. As I stated they don't get to choose what is on the 2020 Census. Their opinion is also speculation as they don't have any idea of how many illegals participate in the census either. There is no way to know. Hell we don't even know how many illegals are in the country.

The 11 million number is an estimate based on may things including Census Data. We do not have an accurate number, just a good estimate. And their estimate is based somewhat on Census Data so if that is garbage the estimate is also based to some extent on garbage.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...immigrants-in-the-u-s/?utm_term=.452e51ee64fe

 

[ivwshane]

I didn't ignore anything. As I stated they don't get to choose what is on the 2020 Census. Their opinion is also speculation as they don't have any idea of how many illegals participate in the census either. There is no way to know. Hell we don't even know how many illegals are in the country.

The 11 million number is an estimate based on may things including Census Data. We do not have an accurate number, just a good estimate. And their estimate is based somewhat on Census Data so if that is garbage the estimate is also based to some extent on garbage.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...immigrants-in-the-u-s/?utm_term=.452e51ee64fe

So your opinion is to make the estimation even more inaccurate. Got it.

I especially like how you think the past census administrators are unqualified to speak on the topic.

 

[pcgeek11]

So your opinion is to make the estimation when more inaccurate. Got it.

I especially like how you think the past census administrators are unqualified to speak on the topic.

How would that question make it more inaccurate? All it is now is an educated guess.

I didn't say they were unqualified to speak on the topic. I said they are guessing also, as they do not know how many illegals participate or not in the census. Nor do they know for sure what impact that question would have on participation.
Stop putting words into my mouth.

 

[pcgeek11]

That's the problem. If you don't accurately know how many people live in an area, it is difficult to address the structural/infrastructure needs of an area. Essentially the Census becomes a waste of time and money.

Why does Canada ask about citizenship on theirs?

 

[ivwshane]

How would that question make it more inaccurate? All it is now is an educated guess.

I didn't say they were unqualified to speak on the topic. I said they are guessing also, as they do not know how many illegals participate or not in the census. Nor do they know for sure what impact that question would have on participation.
Stop putting words into my mouth.

They are guessing? You know this because?

 

[pcgeek11]

They are guessing? You know this because?

There is no way they could possibly know how many illegals participate or not in the census.
And due to that they could not possibly know for sure what impact that question would have on participation in the census.

Prediction, estimation and guessing.

Do you actually think that they know these things.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I didn't ignore anything. As I stated they don't get to choose what is on the 2020 Census. Their opinion is also speculation as they don't have any idea of how many illegals participate in the census either. There is no way to know. Hell we don't even know how many illegals are in the country.

The 11 million number is an estimate based on may things including Census Data. We do not have an accurate number, just a good estimate. And their estimate is based somewhat on Census Data so if that is garbage the estimate is also based to some extent on garbage.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...immigrants-in-the-u-s/?utm_term=.452e51ee64fe

I believe that there are many more than are being reported based upon the fact that our country is encircled by Mexican Consulates. Just take a look at the map of their locations scattered around the country. Why would they need that many of them unless they had to service a pile of their citizens?

References:
http://www.lacooperativa.org/mexican-consulate-services/
https://www.google.com/maps/search/...tes/@34.0028353,-105.5271653,4z/data=!3m1!4b1
https://embassy-finder.com/mexico_in_usa
http://www.mexonline.com/consulate.htm
https://www.mexbound.com/mexican-consulates/#usconsulates

 

[justoh]

You register people when they're born or enter, and when they move about. You don't go counting heads and asking dudes questions. It must be by design to have so have so many illegals. Why's it so easy to be undocumented in the US? Undocumented people in fabulous CH don't stay long, most leaving in under 10 years, because there's law and order, and registration matters. And then if they want to do a census they just download the information from the local councils, over the interwebs. Cron job v con job. The 19th century called, gais, it wants back its census taking methodology and immigration policy.

 

[pcgeek11]

There is a lot more than just Mexicans involved even though they are the largest group.