2020 census to include citizenship question

[fskimospy]

I doubt you’d be pleased if some other state refused to assist with enforcement of federal laws regarding gun sales, or discrimination, or the like. As for brown people my desire for the immigration quotas to be raised while existing immigration laws are better enforced isn’t a matter of skin color, national origin, or anything else. It’s your side that wants to make this about race not me. If anything I’d bebharder on the theoretical illegal white immigrant from a western country than a theoretical “brown person” from a third world nation because the former doesn’t even have a legitimate excuse not to follow our laws.

Nope, totally fine with all that. I guess some of us are just more interested in the constitution than others. Lol.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Nope, totally fine with all that. I guess some of us are just more interested in the constitution than others. Lol.

Unless of course the topic is the electoral college lol

 

[fskimospy]

Unless of course the topic is the electoral college lol

Huh? I think we can all agree that the electoral college is a bad idea, right?

To be clear no sane person would ever argue that the constitution was good in total, but the parts that establish different sovereignty are generally well supported.

 

[ivwshane]

I read that article, and thought perhaps you were referring to a different article. Since you did not, and that article does not make a compelling case, we are back to square one.

A rational person would see their concerns as irrational fears over a simple question.

A census is the collection of data. This is a data point, nothing more.

The only opinion I care about on this topic is SCOTUS. Since there are lawsuits against this change, I expect it to quickly fall under judicial review.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Thanks for proving my point.

Yes, we’ve established you don’t have one.

 

[zinfamous]

If you can twist and ignore immigration laws then why should we respect the census laws? Rule of law means you don’t get to pick and choose which laws you’ll honor and which you’ll undermine.

well if you want to pick and choose laws, or at least claim some sort of precedence...then let's go with the laws that have sat around since the birth of this nation: the census, and how it is to be taken since the 18th century, ...vs immigration, which barely had any laws governing it until the 20th century came around.

 

[ivwshane]

Yes, we’ve established you don’t have one.

Of course I don't, how in the world could the opinion of experts and testing compare to your feels?

/s

Lol dumb ass.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Of course I don't, how in the world could the opinion of experts and testing compare to your feels?

/s

Lol dumb ass.

If your article established that, I would acknowledge it. I believe someone in another thread gave you some sound advice on your petulance. Judicial review is the only opinion that matters.

 

[ivwshane]

If your article established that, I would acknowledge it. I believe someone in another thread gave you some sound advice on your petulance. Judicial review is the only opinion that matters.

Lol. So you've gone from being ok with the question being added to now being a decision the courts have to answer.

Thanks buckshit.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Lol. So you've gone from being ok with the question being added to now being a decision the courts have to answer.

Thanks buckshit.

That’s been my position all along. If you weren’t flailing about like a petulant child, it could have saved you a lot of butthurt.

 

[ivwshane]

That’s been my position all along. If you weren’t flailing about like a petulant child, it could have saved you a lot of butthurt.

I provided another perspective on the political oppprtunism for how we count people, which is part of the broader census discussion. I see no harm in including a citizenship question on the census. Lots of forms ask that question.

Thanks, I'll add you to the list of known liars on the forum. Pcgeek will be happy to get some company, I'm sure.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Thanks, I'll add you to the list of known liars on the forum. Pcgeek will be happy to get some company, I'm sure.

Those two quotes are part of a broader thread of discussion, and don’t prove anything other than you are a petulant child.

I am not a liar, I gain nothing from it, but I am happy to count you amongst the intellectually dishonest snowflakes. Welcome to the snow globe!

 

[Brainonska511]

Unless of course the topic is the electoral college lol

The Constitution is not a perfect stone tablet handed down from God.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Huh? I think we can all agree that the electoral college is a bad idea, right?

To be clear no sane person would ever argue that the constitution was good in total, but the parts that establish different sovereignty are generally well supported.

The Constitution is not a perfect stone tablet handed down from God.

Which is why I find so entertaining the political opportunism and hypocrisy around the vocalization of which parts to change.

The power politics and maneuvering to manipilate representation goes all the way back to the original sin of our nation’s very founding, with the 3/5th compromise. Now, its gerrymandering and alarmism over census questions. The truth is, we’ve Balkanized as a nation, and we have not had a strong President in decades who truly speaks to all Americans in a unifying voice.

We may have fought a Civil War to end slavery, but it still exists...we just use fancier words now like migrant labor and globalization.

 

[Jhhnn]

How is that post unlike any of your others? There was nothing special about it to address.

Of course you decline. It's the same coy dishonesty you've exhibited all along, telling us about how you feel about the citizenship question rather than honestly considering how others' feelings can easily result in an under count in the census.

Cheat to win? It's no problem for the GOP.

 

[Jhhnn]

Unless of course the topic is the electoral college lol

Which is entirely peripheral to the topic at hand & an exercise in whataboutism.

 

[Jhhnn]

Which is why I find so entertaining the political opportunism and hypocrisy around the vocalization of which parts to change.

The power politics and maneuvering to manipilate representation goes all the way back to the original sin of our nation’s very founding, with the 3/5th compromise. Now, its gerrymandering and alarmism over census questions. The truth is, we’ve Balkanized as a nation, and we have not had a strong President in decades who truly speaks to all Americans in a unifying voice.

We may have fought a Civil War to end slavery, but it still exists...we just use fancier words now like migrant labor and globalization.

That's a Gish gallop of whataboutism. You're throwing in everything but the kitchen sink.

 

[Brainonska511]

Which is why I find so entertaining the political opportunism and hypocrisy around the vocalization of which parts to change.

Honestly, then you're just an idiot. Thinking one part is bad and other parts is fine is a perfectly logical way to think about the Constitution. The whole thing doesn't have to be scrapped because of one bad part and it's moronic to think that people complaining about X in the Constitution while defending Y are hypocrites.

The power politics and maneuvering to manipilate representation goes all the way back to the original sin of our nation’s very founding, with the 3/5th compromise. Now, its gerrymandering and alarmism over census questions. The truth is, we’ve Balkanized as a nation, and we have not had a strong President in decades who truly speaks to all Americans in a unifying voice.

Manipulating representation is nothing new, merely the tactics of increasing representation at the expense of others has changed.

As for balkanization: I don't know where you've been, but this country has a LONG history of totally ignoring the needs of a good proportion of its citizens to favor white men. You're papering over history to think there was some rosy time in the past where we all got along. The least we can do is just count everyone (as has been tradition) instead of selectively counting people to continue the manipulation of representation.

We may have fought a Civil War to end slavery, but it still exists...we just use fancier words now like migrant labor and globalization.

People aren't immigrating to the US illegally because their economic prospects and personal safety are so grand in their home countries. Many of the problems in their own countries are a direct byproduct of historic and present US actions - at least some groups are fighting to correct this issue - providing a path to get immigrants protected under the law. Many others would sooner kick people out and try to wash our hands of the problems we have wrought.

PS: I don't know if you've looked at the data of late, but world poverty has decreased over the last 30 years, as a result of globalization. The key issue now facing us is the unequal distribution of benefits, but that's really a topic for another thread.

 

[fskimospy]

Which is why I find so entertaining the political opportunism and hypocrisy around the vocalization of which parts to change.

The power politics and maneuvering to manipilate representation goes all the way back to the original sin of our nation’s very founding, with the 3/5th compromise. Now, its gerrymandering and alarmism over census questions. The truth is, we’ve Balkanized as a nation, and we have not had a strong President in decades who truly speaks to all Americans in a unifying voice.

We may have fought a Civil War to end slavery, but it still exists...we just use fancier words now like migrant labor and globalization.

Why is it hypocrisy?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Honestly, then you're just an idiot. Thinking one part is bad and other parts is fine is a perfectly logical way to think about the Constitution.

Not what I said. I am talking about only complaining about X when it is politically opportunistic to do so... like complaining about the electoral college only after losing an electoon.

Manipulating representation is nothing new, merely the tactics of increasing representation at the expense of others has changed.

Agreed

As for balkanization: I don't know where you've been, but this country has a LONG history of totally ignoring the needs of a good proportion of its citizens to favor white men.

This country also has a long history of white men dying on the behalf of others

People aren't immigrating to the US illegally because their economic prospects and personal safety are so grand in their home countries. Many of the problems in their own countries are a direct byproduct of historic and present US actions - at least some groups are fighting to correct this issue - providing a path to get immigrants protected under the law. Many others would sooner kick people out and try to wash our hands of the problems we have wrought.

The origin for most of their problems predates America. The European colonial powers bare the brunt of that blame

PS: I don't know if you've looked at the data of late, but world poverty has decreased over the last 30 years, as a result of globalization.

So there was a net positive to white men imposing a world order that favored them?

The key issue now facing us is the unequal distribution of benefits, but that's really a topic for another thread.

i am in complete agreement with you. This wealth disparity is most pronounced in urban blue areas. Those areas are welcome to lead by example and distribute that wealth. All I see is a lot of gentrification and NIMBYism.

 

[fskimospy]

Not what I said. I am talking about only complaining about X when it is politically opportunistic to do so... like complaining about the electoral college only after losing an electoon.

Agreed

This country also has a long history of white men dying on the behalf of others

The origin for most of their problems predates America. The European colonial powers bare the brunt of that blame

So there was a net positive to white men imposing a world order that favored them?

i am in complete agreement with you. This wealth disparity is most pronounced in urban blue areas. Those areas are welcome to lead by example and distribute that wealth. All I see is a lot of gentrification and NIMBYism.

Those areas are leading by example and promoting the most wealth redistribution. Where have you been the last few decades? The problem is that conservative, rural areas are motivated more by culture war than by economics.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's quite remarkable how Starbuck obfuscates, isn't it? Only one word in post #445 has anything to do with the topic at hand- "agreed".

The GOP is at the vanguard of manipulating representation with this attack on the integrity of the Census. It's the latest in a long string of dishonest efforts to thwart honest democracy.

Values? Integrity? Decency? Look elsewhere to find those things.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Those areas are leading by example and promoting the most wealth redistribution. Where have you been the last few decades? The problem is that conservative, rural areas are motivated more by culture war than by economics.

If growing wealth disparity, rising homelessness, insufficient housing, underfunded pensions, gentrification and NIMBYism are your definition of success, then sure.

 

[Starbuck1975]

It's quite remarkable how Starbuck obfuscates, isn't it? Only one word in post #445 has anything to do with the topic at hand- "agreed".

The GOP is at the vanguard of manipulating representation with this attack on the integrity of the Census. It's the latest in a long string of dishonest efforts to thwart honest democracy.

Values? Integrity? Decency? Look elsewhere to find those things.

And none of the words in any of your posts have anything to do with the topic at hand...ever. You only know one song.

 

[Jhhnn]

And none of the words in any of your posts have anything to do with the topic at hand...ever. You only know one song.

So dishonest.

The GOP is at the vanguard of manipulating representation with this attack on the integrity of the Census.