2020 census to include citizenship question

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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
It's simply delusional to think that we will deport 11M people, ~10% of them living in greater LA.

The only reason we haven't reached the only possible solution, broad amnesty, is because the GOP sells that delusion to folks like you. Over and over again. It's all hat & no cattle regardless of how badly you want to believe to the contrary.

Meanwhile, you'll screw affected communities any way you can for the spite & the good old libruhl tears.
You can’t screw people over for something they’ve done to themselves.

Deportation is impractical. Maybe we should just provide blanket amnesty. What do you think is going to happen in LA and other concentrated communities when 11M suddenly become American citizens, and start doing crazy things like organize, unionize, vote and demand services. It’s not going to be a homogenous voting block.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
You can’t screw people over for something they’ve done to themselves.

Deportation is impractical. Maybe we should just provide blanket amnesty. What do you think is going to happen in LA and other concentrated communities when 11M suddenly become American citizens, and start doing crazy things like organize, unionize, vote and demand services. It’s not going to be a homogenous voting block.

Do you think people like Jhhnn care? They've chosen sides and threw their lot in with "the voters of the future" in hispanic illegal immigrants and fully abandoned the white working class in the midwest, Appalachia, and elsewhere. It's the biggest proximate cause of the Trump presidency. The people of Michigan, etc. know damn well that Jhhnn and his ilk not only don't "have their back" but are on the exact opposite side from them in the modern political configuration.
 
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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
Do you think people like Jhhnn care? They've chosen sides and threw their lot in with "the voters of the future" in hispanic illegal immigrants and fully abandoned the white working class in the midwest, Appalachia, and elsewhere. It's the biggest proximate cause of the Trump presidency. The people of Michigan, etc. know damn well that Jhhnn and his ilk not only don't "have their back" but are on the exact opposite side from them in the modern political configuration.

Someone has a case of the vapors
 
Jul 9, 2009
10,758
2,086
136
It's remarkable how you claim others said certain things w/o citation. Remarkably convenient, anyway.

It's also remarkable coming from a person whose party holds the White House by dint of an anomalous result of the Electoral College & the HOR by dint of massive gerrymandering, neither of which carry an honest majority of voters.

The census has nothing to do with voter registration, either, so you're just diverting into familiar & faulty argument.
Illegals don't vote.
Here you go bitch, here's your claim that illegals don't vote. You don't even have the integrity of the New York narcissist that's in the White House.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
You can’t screw people over for something they’ve done to themselves.

Deportation is impractical. Maybe we should just provide blanket amnesty. What do you think is going to happen in LA and other concentrated communities when 11M suddenly become American citizens, and start doing crazy things like organize, unionize, vote and demand services. It’s not going to be a homogenous voting block.

They won't all "suddenly" become citizens. Like all past immigrants, many of them may well elect not to do so. The ones who do are welcome to do all the same things that other citizens do, of course.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,936
55,293
136
Do you think people like Jhhnn care? They've chosen sides and threw their lot in with "the voters of the future" in hispanic illegal immigrants and fully abandoned the white working class in the midwest, Appalachia, and elsewhere. It's the biggest proximate cause of the Trump presidency. The people of Michigan, etc. know damn well that Jhhnn and his ilk not only don't "have their back" but are on the exact opposite side from them in the modern political configuration.

Don’t be silly, the Democrats actually have proposed and implemented plans to try and help the white working class, but the Midwest and Appalachia are areas where it’s going to take an enormous amount of resources to counteract the fact that they specialized in areas that are either changing or dying. This is in marked contrast to Republicans who have worked explicitly to screw these voters over.

If you actually read news stories about a lot of Trump voters in those areas I imagine you would find you guys have a lot in common. They were under no illusions that Trump would actually help them, they just liked that he talked a lot of shit and made them feel important. Much like you, they are largely indifferent to policy and instead want to use politics as an outlet for rage.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Do you think people like Jhhnn care? They've chosen sides and threw their lot in with "the voters of the future" in hispanic illegal immigrants and fully abandoned the white working class in the midwest, Appalachia, and elsewhere. It's the biggest proximate cause of the Trump presidency. The people of Michigan, etc. know damn well that Jhhnn and his ilk not only don't "have their back" but are on the exact opposite side from them in the modern political configuration.

Yeh, it's all Libs' fault that the revered Jerb Creators dumped the rust belt & moved on to greener pastures. Totally.

Conservatives always rave the loudest when they're deepest in Denial. Don't like the way it's turning out? You voted for it, again & again.

The American middle class won't get more out of the financial elite unless we decide to take it as taxes to create whatever jobs, benefits & opportunities we can through govt efforts. Or we can cling to the lies & deceptions of what are now Trumpian trickle down economics.
 
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umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
FFS this is all for naught any way. How many times do I have to repeat my live birth fact that in 2016 it became official that minority babies are the majority among the nation’s infants.

This isn't fake news...

You could deport all illegals tomorrow and it wouldn't change the inevitable fate of not only the social landscape but modern day liberalism and conservatism as well. You'd only delay it another 10 or so years. Get used to it...

Ranting and raving about illegals voting and liberals trying to court the illegals and give them voting rights is just fucking stupid. A stupid circle stupid people are running around in trying to catch that tail... Minorities will be the majority.

One of the great things about recovery and just celebrating 25 years of sobriety/clean time is one . Acceptance.

I've accepted it, when will the rest of you...
 
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glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Yeh, it's all Libs' fault that the revered Jerb Creators dumped the rust belt & moved on to greener pastures. Totally.

Conservatives always rave the loudest when they're deepest in Denial. Don't like the way it's turning out? You voted for it, again & again.

The American middle class won't get more out of the financial elite unless we decide to take it as taxes to create whatever jobs, benefits & opportunities we can through govt efforts. Or we can cling to the lies & deceptions of what are now Trumpian trickle down economics.

Which will happen never or after conservatives fulfill their similarly fantasy objective of completely undoing the New Deal, whichever comes first. It's almost comical with how out of touch you are with that segment of the electorate who just definitively voted against such a thing in favor of Trump and have far more self-respect than to just take government handouts the rest of their lives. For better or worse they want actual private sector jobs doing economically productive work and not just sit back and receive government cheese paid for by the rich like you dream about.
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,347
4,973
136
Explain why it is legit. I'm not accepting your premise.

All kinds of demographic data is asked on the census. There are all kinds of immigrants in the US, not just the illegal ones. The law protects their status and there is no valid reason for them to balk at the census or the question. The ones that are paranoid are not going to participate anyway. It has been a valid question before and it still is.
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,347
4,973
136
What attracts workers, legal & otherwise, is jobs. And in the Conservative way of thinking then the job creators decide where that is. It can be no other way. And if illegals find employment then it's the job creators paying them, obviously, not your nebulous libruhl boogeyman.

I love your "if they would conform to the law" routine, too. Who is they? American citizens who live in those places where intentional under counting deprives them of an honest share of federal funding & representation?

Yeh, that's some MAGA, for sure- fucking over the most populous places so that... what, exactly? So that the job creators get big fat tax cuts with money borrowed from them? Or is it just for the delicious libruhl tears?

LOL. Yes that's it. LOL
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,347
4,973
136
Incorrect. Representation has always been based on population, not citizenship. It's a Constitutional requirement & it's been that way since the first census in 1790.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_apportionment#Constitutional_texts

You're not supposed to admit that current GOP efforts are designed to under count people in urban areas but you did, anyway, so thanks for at least that smidgen of honesty.

If they fill out the census they will be counted regardless of being a citizen or not, so what is the big deal?
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Which will happen never or after conservatives fulfill their similarly fantasy objective of completely undoing the New Deal, whichever comes first. It's almost comical with how out of touch you are with that segment of the electorate who just definitively voted against such a thing in favor of Trump and have far more self-respect than to just take government handouts the rest of their lives. For better or worse they want actual private sector jobs doing economically productive work and not just sit back and receive government cheese paid for by the rich like you dream about.


Like I said- Trump voters' sentiments defy the reality of Jerb Creator activity. Y'all been dumped, honey, by the people you admire the most. When Trump grabbed you by the pussy, tickled your amygdala, stroked you erroneous zones & whispered sweet nothings in your ear you fell for it again.

None of it is sincere, of course. It never is, coming from the GOP. They just care about the money, particularly about free money from massive investor class tax cuts. Now they'll put that money to work, and it won't be in the rust belt, obviously, because it's the same today as it's been for the last 40 years.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
If they fill out the census they will be counted regardless of being a citizen or not, so what is the big deal?

Because, like conservatives, Many of them believe things that aren't true, that they'll rat themselves out to La Migra by filling out the survey. Which is obviously what the Trump admin wants them to believe.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,347
4,973
136
Because, like conservatives, Many of them believe things that aren't true, that they'll rat themselves out to La Migra by filling out the survey. Which is obviously what the Trump admin wants them to believe.


So the REAL Problem isn't the citizenship question. The real problem is the distrust of the Immigrants.

Maybe then you should work on the real problem.

Thank you for admitting the truth.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
So the REAL Problem isn't the citizenship question. The real problem is the distrust of the Immigrants.

Maybe then you should work on the real problem.

Thank you for admitting the truth.

The citizenship question is included precisely to inhibit participation. For the GOP, it's a feature, not a bug.

But it's up to honest people to convince illegals that it's not that way in the face of the Admin basically telling them that it is.
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,347
4,973
136
The citizenship question is included precisely to inhibit participation. For the GOP, it's a feature, not a bug.

But it's up to honest people to convince illegals that it's not that way in the face of the Admin basically telling them that it is.

Your first sentence in your post is an opinion and not a fact.

The Admin did not say anything of the sort. The law actually says that the data cannot be shared.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Your first sentence in your post is an opinion and not a fact.

The Admin did not say anything of the sort. The law actually says that the data cannot be shared.

You've already admitted that including the question will likely inhibit participation among undocumented residents. Now you just need to explain why you support doing that.

It seems increasingly clear that post-truth is often post-honesty, as well.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,347
4,973
136
You've already admitted that including the question will likely inhibit participation among undocumented residents. Now you just need to explain why you support doing that.

It seems increasingly clear that post-truth is often post-honesty, as well.

What I have said all along is that the vast majority of illegal aliens do not participate in the census due to their fear of being caught. Even though the law prohibits the census from sharing the data with law enforcement.

So the results of this question may have some negligible effect on the total count. Actual numbers are unknown to begin with so any impact cannot be determined neither positive or negative.

Please note the question does not differentiate between legal or illegal immigrants...
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
What I have said all along is that the vast majority of illegal aliens do not participate in the census due to their fear of being caught. Even though the law prohibits the census from sharing the data with law enforcement.

So the results of this question may have some negligible effect on the total count. Actual numbers are unknown to begin with so any impact cannot be determined neither positive or negative.

Please note the question does not differentiate between legal or illegal immigrants...

So you have no problem with greater under counting of illegals than already exists. That's not good for the communities they live in, is it? Of course not. It just deprives them of federal representation & funds for basic services in the area. That's why at least 12 states are filing suit.

It's not like you or the admin have even tried to explain what they intend to do with that data, either, other than the nebulous "protect citizens" statement from Huckabee-Sanders.

I wonder what illegals think she means by that...
 
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Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,076
2,635
136
Do you think people like Jhhnn care? They've chosen sides and threw their lot in with "the voters of the future" in hispanic illegal immigrants and fully abandoned the white working class in the midwest, Appalachia, and elsewhere. It's the biggest proximate cause of the Trump presidency. The people of Michigan, etc. know damn well that Jhhnn and his ilk not only don't "have their back" but are on the exact opposite side from them in the modern political configuration.
I don't think people have abandoned the white working class. The issue is more than economic models that worked well 50 years ago no longer work. The rest of the country is otherwise doing well. Even more so, the people the white working class keep voting for are specifically trying to prevent the redistribution of the wealth the rest of the country is experiencing to these areas where said white working class people are living based on "conservative principles"
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,347
4,973
136
So you have no problem with greater under counting of illegals than already exists. That's not good for the communities they live in, is it? Of course not. It just deprives them of federal representation & funds for basic services in the area. That's why at least 12 states are filing suit.

It's not like you or the admin have even tried to explain what they intend to do with that data, either, other than the nebulous "protect citizens" statement from Huckabee-Sanders.

I wonder what illegals think she means by that...

No, actually I don't have a problem, as I don't think that they participate regardless of the question. If they choose to Not Participate and lose funds and representation that is their call and all on them. What I believe is that there is a negligible difference between with or without the question. As the numbers are unknown it cannot be proven one way or the other.

The illegals shouldn't be here to begin with.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,936
55,293
136
No, actually I don't have a problem, as I don't think that they participate regardless of the question. If they choose to Not Participate and lose funds and representation that is their call and all on them. What I believe is that there is a negligible difference between with or without the question. As the numbers are unknown it cannot be proven one way or the other.

What is this idea based on? Empirical research strongly indicates the opposite. Is this just your feelings?

The illegals shouldn't be here to begin with.

Irrelevant to the census.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
All kinds of demographic data is asked on the census. There are all kinds of immigrants in the US, not just the illegal ones. The law protects their status and there is no valid reason for them to balk at the census or the question. The ones that are paranoid are not going to participate anyway. It has been a valid question before and it still is.
The shrug emoji would have worked just as well, since you have nothing.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
No, actually I don't have a problem, as I don't think that they participate regardless of the question. If they choose to Not Participate and lose funds and representation that is their call and all on them. What I believe is that there is a negligible difference between with or without the question. As the numbers are unknown it cannot be proven one way or the other.

The illegals shouldn't be here to begin with.

That's truthiness, right? You believe what you believe because you want to believe it despite having no evidence at all.

The part you & the Admin have yet to explain is why that question is necessary & why normal protocols were bypassed to introduce it at the last moment. What will you do with the information?

Having the most accurate census possible shouldn't be a partisan issue. Including that question certainly won't make it more accurate.

Your "shouldn't be here in the first place" remark is telling, an attempt to deny reality. They *are* here. That's the truth, and the census should tell us the truth, shouldn't it?
 
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