2019 dem primary debates

[dank69]

Sorry, but while you can claim it is the right answer and I can agree, it is vague. Democracy is dead. It functions for the rich, not average people. Other candidates address that fact more directly, and it is dangerous to do so. I give them more credit for addressing the money factor specifically.

On his website he lists this as his number one issue:
https://peteforamerica.com/issues/#Democracy

At least read the special interests section of that page. He addresses your concerns and much, much more.

 

[dank69]

The controversal but funny part about that is, she most likely wouldn't be where she is today if not for slavery either.

You don't want to be the guy that tries that angle. You might as well come out and say black people should be thankful for slavery. We have no idea what the world would be like today if there never was slavery. For all we know, African countries might be the leaders of the free world by now.

 

[ImpulsE69]

You don't want to be the guy that tries that angle. You might as well come out and say black people should be thankful for slavery. We have no idea what the world would be like today if there never was slavery. For all we know, African countries might be the leaders of the free world by now.

Oh I realize that but it disturbs me that she played the race card and when asked why 'she doesn't hate all white people' from what I saw, she didn't say 'I don't'. She did the usual politician dance around the question.

 

[Moonbeam]

On his website he lists this as his number one issue:
https://peteforamerica.com/issues/#Democracy

At least read the special interests section of that page. He addresses your concerns and much, much more.

I will happily vote for him if he wins as well as all the other Democrat candidates. I am confident, however, if Sanders wins his focus will be focused on this one critical issue and what real change will require.

I like him a lot but I am a coastal liberal and he has little Black support. I also have concerns about Sanders because his focus on small r revolution is hard for average uninformed people to handle. But democracy will stay dead if we can’t get over that.

 

[hal2kilo]

Also, was I just seeing and hearing things but did Biden last night say that the NRA wasn't the enemy, instead the gun manufacturers are? So is he supporting the NRA?

Yes, he quite clearly slipped it in. He's uncle Joe, he's moving kind of slow, at the junction.

 

[ultimatebob]

Yes, he quite clearly slipped it in. He's uncle Joe, he's moving kind of slow, at the junction.

I guess that's the downside of being the most popular moderate candidate. They feel like they can't wait until they have the dem nomination locked in before they start pandering to gun owners

 

[dank69]

Yes, he quite clearly slipped it in. He's uncle Joe, he's moving kind of slow, at the junction.

He tried to make the point that the NRA is just an extension of the gun manufacturers which is true but not a really important point to make and he wasn't effective at making it anyway.

 

[HomerJS]

My take from last night

Harris up
Mayor Pete up
Biden down

Biden was unprepared for Harris's attack. He knew this was going to be brought up. I do have one question for Harris. I've not known Berkley to be one of the poorer towns. Is the reason she looked pissed in her picture because she was being bused away from a good school?

Biden's position on busing is complicated and can't be boiled down to 60 seconds. I went back and read an excerpt from a memoir in 2007 where he explained.

Pete did himself good taking blame for the lack of diversity in the police force. I understand why he gave Swalwell a death stare. He just explained there is an investigation and actions will be taken based on the outcome. Swalwell just kept barking to fire the chief. Pete's problem was he fired a black police chief and the circumstances were questionable.

People here have touted Gillabrand. I'm not seeing it. I'm still not happy about her opportunism when it came to Bill Clinton (not actually condemning his actions). I'm still kinda of pissed getting Al Frankin pushed out of the Senate. She got that ball rolling.

Biden will still be in the lead but if he doesn't significantly up his game he could get bumped as a front runner.

 

[hal2kilo]

He tried to make the point that the NRA is just an extension of the gun manufacturers which is true but not a really important point to make and he wasn't effective at making it anyway.

It was poorly articulated. Seemed like he was keeping the collection plate out for them.

 

[dank69]

I will happily vote for him if he wins as well as all the other Democrat candidates. I am confident, however, if Sanders wins his focus will be focused on this one critical issue and what real change will require.

I like him a lot but I am a coastal liberal and he has little Black support. I also have concerns about Sanders because his focus on small r revolution is hard for average uninformed people to handle. But democracy will stay dead if we can’t get over that.

I assume his lack of support among minorities is due to a lack of name recognition or knowing anything about him in a field of no-names. Will have to see if that improves. On the other hand, if POC want to sit home if they don't get their preferred candidate then America deserves everything coming to it.

 

[dank69]

It was poorly articulated. Seemed like he was keeping the collection plate out for them.

I highly doubt the motivation is greed. He is trying to play the moderate to appeal to the center, so he wants to avoid alienating gun owners. You can better understand all of his answers when viewed through that lens. I have no patience for it. Pandering to the people in the middle by trying to include their shit policy preferences has never worked. You are a Democrat. People are going to assume you want to ban all guns no matter how many times you tell them you don't. All he is doing is pissing off the people that are sick and tired of gun violence and excuses, for very little gain. I was glad to see basically the entire stage call him out for thinking we can get shit done by working with Republicans. That idea should have died in 2009, and we lost the last 6 years of Obama's presidency because it didn't.

If you want to get moderates you need to prove to them that our policies work. They all support the policies we want right up until you tell them that Democrats support it. Well over 50% of the population immediately assume a policy is bad if Democrats support it. You have to fight that perception. You adopt a shit policy because it is "in the middle, hurr durr" and you end up proving that Democrats support shit policy when that policy makes things worse. Look at NAFTA. Look at repeal of Glass-Steagall. Most of America actually think those were Democratic policy.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I hope you aren't trying to say Obamacare was an example of a good policy. Yes it did what he wanted, but it was not a 'good' policy.

 

[dank69]

She is the only one that actually said something rational and coherent. Our poor health is caused by our unhealthy environment and not caused by a poor health care system. Attack the root cause of preventable health issues and watch prices and cost drop. I almost forgot about Buttjudge mentioning that people should expect to have opportunities to earn decent wages without spending for college.

The idea that the problems with our health system stem from environmental issues is nothing short of ludicrous. It doesn't help things in an already shitty system but you could erase all environmental and behavioral factors today, right now, and our healthcare system would continue to be shit in every way.

I would expect this kind of idiocy from some hippy-dippy liberal who already votes straight D based solely on environmental concerns, but you vote Republican. You literally vote to make the issues you think need to be fixed in order to fix our healthcare system, you literally vote to make those issues worse. Please try to understand, you have wasted every vote you have ever made, because you don't know how to think. It is a miracle you aren't a fucking serial killer.

 

[dank69]

I hope you aren't trying to say Obamacare was an example of a good policy. Yes it did what he wanted, but it was not a 'good' policy.

Absolutely not. It was good for one thing and one thing only, getting more people insured, especially those with existing conditions. It is an example of decent policy getting watered down by trying to get Republicans and moderates on board with it. Instead, everyone that doesn't understand the fundamental problems with our healthcare system can just blame Obamacare for rising prices.

If they didn't eliminate the public option we wouldn't be debating today about whether on not we should implement a public option now or go straight to M4A. Instead we would be debating whether the public option was enough or if it is time to go single-payer. Trump would have never had a shot. Republicans would not control the Senate right now. The Republican party would already be dead by now.

 

[vi edit]

American's health issues start with our mouths and what we shove into it. There's also a healthy dose of depression and despair that is coped through eating, drinking and drug abuse. It's not the environment. Unless you get pretty generic about what you mean by "environment".

 

[glenn1]

I hope you aren't trying to say Obamacare was an example of a good policy. Yes it did what he wanted, but it was not a 'good' policy.

Obamacare was "good" policy for 3 groups of people and sucked for everyone else. If your primary objective was to fuck over the young to subsidize the elderly even more then we already did, congrats you succeeded. If your objective was strictly about "extending coverage" without doing anything to help the supermajority with employer-subsidized health insurance, then likewise you succeeded. If you want to ensure that premium costs paid-in are completely delinked from the expected medical care paid out and fuck over those who make healthy choices to subsidize those who make terrible choices, then you succeeded.

 

[soulcougher73]

Or maybe putting millions of people out of work could be a sticking point as well.

Those people are scum anyways. No loss

"What do you do everyday at work?"
"Who me? I look for ways to deny coverage so they can die, and rip people off of the service they pay us for, all in the name of more profits."

 

[ImpulsE69]

American's health issues start with our mouths and what we shove into it. There's also a healthy dose of depression and despair that is coped through eating, drinking and drug abuse. It's not the environment. Unless you get pretty generic about what you mean by "environment".

It's pretty complex but yes, you are correct. Many of the left probably agree, but blame it on the companies and policies that push unhealthy food. They do not like to talk about personal accountability.

 

[woolfe9998]

Sorry, but while you can claim it is the right answer and I can agree, it is vague. Democracy is dead. It functions for the rich, not average people. Other candidates address that fact more directly, and it is dangerous to do so. I give them more credit for addressing the money factor specifically.

Buttigieg had a brief moment to deliver that answer. He's been quite a bit more specific about what he means by that in the past. Also, IIRC every single candidate, or most of them, at one time or another, talked about the money in the system last night, not just Sanders.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It's pretty complex but yes, you are correct. Many of the left probably agree, but blame it on the companies and policies that push unhealthy 'food'. They do not like to talk about personal accountability.

There's a limit to personal accountability when a) you get lied to your entire life, b) an industry has no real requirement to not lie to potential customers, and c) an industry has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in research on how to sell things to people, and get them to continue buying what you're selling.

Hell, my generation grew up on the concept of a food pyramid that was injected into the US Govt via the Agriculture industry, which stated (shockingly) that ~half your caloric intake should be from bread and grains.

 

[SMOGZINN]

It's pretty complex but yes, you are correct. Many of the left probably agree, but blame it on the companies and policies that push unhealthy food. They do not like to talk about personal accountability.

Personal responsibility does not exist in a vacuum. There is a lot of factors to take into account. Long term health consequences of a bad diet are often overshadowed by immediate needs of job and family. Almost everyone agrees that we should eat better, but we often have to make choices that will have consequences today, and as long as they make it easy to defer the consequences of those long term choices we will continue to do so. The psychology of this is well understood, and weaponized by both the corporate world and the government to influence our choices.

It is hard to worry about my health in 20 years when I'm worried about how I'll keep a roof over my head today.

 

[woolfe9998]

Private insurance will never go away. The elitists of both parties will never allow themselves to be stuck with what's good enough for the peasant class.

The problem with that argument is that what's good enough for the masses - in this case, Medicare - is better than private insurance. Not just cheaper. Better. In private insurance, the most expensive plans - called platinum plans - are the most expensive mainly because they have no yearly deductibles, meaning they cover everything without you having to pay for any of it yourself. That's also what Medicare does. It's equivalent to those plans, and better than the gold, silver and bronze plans the rest of us have.

There may be some bells and whistles - like health club memberships - that some cadillac plans pay for that Medicare does not. If that is the concern of the elites, they can buy supplemental private insurance which would give them those bells and whistles. Nothing stops us from making that part of the system.

 

[soulcougher73]

A quibble if have with this philosophy is that our voter participation is low, especially in midterms @40%.

I think Obama was right when he said "don't whine, vote."

Voters themselves have some responsibility to educate themselves, then bother themselves to spend a couple hours every couple years to show up at the polls.

The power of the people can absolutely defeat the elite and their money if they bothered to wield the power they have now.

Get the right people in office, then we can get new laws/judges to push back the corruption that's ruining the system.

This cannot be stated enough. I feel like a candidate really needs to start talking about this. I really think people have forgotten the power we wield over who gets to "rule us". We could easily vote out anyone that doesnt do what the people demand when their next vote cycle comes up. They would get the hint pretty quick that "we the people" are not fucking around anymore.

 

[dank69]

American's health issues start with our mouths and what we shove into it. There's also a healthy dose of depression and despair that is coped through eating, drinking and drug abuse. It's not the environment. Unless you get pretty generic about what you mean by "environment".

It's pretty complex but yes, you are correct. Many of the left probably agree, but blame it on the companies and policies that push unhealthy food. They do not like to talk about personal accountability.

I'm not even sure why we are still talking about health issues as if they are related to our healthcare issues, but by environment I think it is understood to mean:

Poisoning our air
Poisoning our crops and land
Poisoning our water

None of this matters in the slightest when it comes to the discussion of healthcare costs. Nobody is going broke from the treatments associated with health problems from being overweight. BP meds and cholesterol meds and the like are given away like candy. I take a BP pill with two different medications in it and a 90 day supply costs me $0.27 before deductibles and copays are met. It is the Type 1 diabetics that are getting fucked. It is the cancer patients getting fucked. It is the emergency room visitors getting fucked when they have an accident.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I'm not even sure why we are still talking about health issues as if they are related to our healthcare issues, but by environment I think it is understood to mean:

Poisoning our air
Poisoning our crops and land
Poisoning our water

None of this matters in the slightest when it comes to the discussion of healthcare costs. Nobody is going broke from the treatments associated with health problems from being overweight. BP meds and cholesterol meds and the like are given away like candy. I take a BP pill with two different medications in it and a 90 day supply costs me $0.27 before deductibles and copays are met. It is the Type 1 diabetics that are getting fucked. It is the cancer patients getting fucked. It is the emergency room visitors getting fucked when they have an accident.

Sure, your BP pills are cheap, but wait until that high blood pressure causes you to have your first heart attack. Wait until that high cholesterol causes you to need a bypass. Wait until that diabetes causes you to have a skin ulcer that won't heal. Then you are suddenly hit with tens of thousands in medical bills.

Preventive medical is fairly cheap. It is the crisis intervention that bankrupts you. Half of what we are trying to do with Medicare-for-all type plans is get people to do preventative medicine more regularly.