Bitek
Lifer
- Aug 2, 2001
- 10,676
- 5,239
- 136
She's done really well for herself since that bad start.
It would be great to see her and just the other top ~5 in the next debate.
I'd really like to see a Harris/Trump debate and a pence/Booti VP debate
She's done really well for herself since that bad start.
It would be great to see her and just the other top ~5 in the next debate.
I'd really like to see a Harris/Trump debate and a pence/Booti VP debate
- Apr 8, 2013
- 16,242
- 14,243
- 136
Overall this was a better debate than last night with much more forceful presentations from this group of candidates. Anyone notice that last night they barely mentioned Trump but tonight they were all over him like a cheap suit? I can't wait for the poor me they're being so mean to me tweets tomorrow morning.
On the candidates:
Harris will gain the most from this debate. I've not been impressed with her at times in the past, over her reparations comments, Jussie Smollett, not answering questions directly, etc. But tonight she killed it, and perhaps more importantly, she took a bite out of the front runner. Also loved her first answer when asked how democrats were going to pay for their programs, which was basically why does no one ever ask how the GOP pays for the massive tax cuts for the wealthy? Indeed. Her polling gains will be at Biden's expense. She's heading for second place after tonight.
Buttigieg was of course outstanding, but then he always is. I am convinced he's the best communicator of political messaging of his generation. The only knock is he sometimes can be a little too calm, a little too low key. But when asked about the policing situation in South Bend, he showed real emotion, personal pain, and he owned the situation instead of running away from it. Like Biden did trying to defend his record on busing with "state's rights." Another good moment for him was in addressing the GOP's religious hypocrisy over supporting Trump's inhumane border policies. I don't think it was a breakout performance like we saw with Harris so his needle will either stay the same or, more likely, rise a little bit.
Gillibrand was a bit all over the map, rifling off lots of ideas but it didn't really all cohere for me. Still, she probably helped herself a little here simply because she's trailing pretty distantly and the mere fact she was able to talk as much as she did will raise her profile. She's clearly positioning herself as the "women's candidate."
Bernie Sanders was Bernie Sanders. He always says the same things with the same gruff angry passion. Perhaps consistency is a virtue here. But nothing he did will make people who don't like him, like him, or vice versa.
For the most part Biden accomplished what he wanted to which was just to not screw up and seem like the brain addled has-been that Trump has been portraying him as. But he blew it big time when Harris went after him on busing. And that's going to cost him with black voters especially. It only remains to be seen by how much.
Winners: Harris, Buttigieg, Gillibrand (in that order).
Loser: Biden.
All others are staying wherever they are, which in many cases is nowhere.
On the candidates:
Harris will gain the most from this debate. I've not been impressed with her at times in the past, over her reparations comments, Jussie Smollett, not answering questions directly, etc. But tonight she killed it, and perhaps more importantly, she took a bite out of the front runner. Also loved her first answer when asked how democrats were going to pay for their programs, which was basically why does no one ever ask how the GOP pays for the massive tax cuts for the wealthy? Indeed. Her polling gains will be at Biden's expense. She's heading for second place after tonight.
Buttigieg was of course outstanding, but then he always is. I am convinced he's the best communicator of political messaging of his generation. The only knock is he sometimes can be a little too calm, a little too low key. But when asked about the policing situation in South Bend, he showed real emotion, personal pain, and he owned the situation instead of running away from it. Like Biden did trying to defend his record on busing with "state's rights." Another good moment for him was in addressing the GOP's religious hypocrisy over supporting Trump's inhumane border policies. I don't think it was a breakout performance like we saw with Harris so his needle will either stay the same or, more likely, rise a little bit.
Gillibrand was a bit all over the map, rifling off lots of ideas but it didn't really all cohere for me. Still, she probably helped herself a little here simply because she's trailing pretty distantly and the mere fact she was able to talk as much as she did will raise her profile. She's clearly positioning herself as the "women's candidate."
Bernie Sanders was Bernie Sanders. He always says the same things with the same gruff angry passion. Perhaps consistency is a virtue here. But nothing he did will make people who don't like him, like him, or vice versa.
For the most part Biden accomplished what he wanted to which was just to not screw up and seem like the brain addled has-been that Trump has been portraying him as. But he blew it big time when Harris went after him on busing. And that's going to cost him with black voters especially. It only remains to be seen by how much.
Winners: Harris, Buttigieg, Gillibrand (in that order).
Loser: Biden.
All others are staying wherever they are, which in many cases is nowhere.
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I am not a particular fan of Biden. But because he could be the Democratic nominee I think the Harris and Swalwell attacks on him showed selfish poor character. If I wanted somebody who thinks of themselves above all others, I'd vote for Trump. The Harris personal stories also leave me cold. All I can see is a crafted and consciously calculated intention to make an emotional connection with me. I see a political operator not a human being. But I see that too in all of them to some degree.
Did I tell you about how my family used to live in caves 30000 years ago before they immigrated to America and made something of themselves. And I have Neanderthal genes.
Basically I felt the debates were a farce with everybody pretending that something important happened. I was neither impressed by anybody or disappointed by anybody. Sanders and Gillibrand and Warren at least focused on the one issue that I think really matters, the death of democracy due to the 1 %. If that isn't fixed nothing else will be.
Did I tell you about how my family used to live in caves 30000 years ago before they immigrated to America and made something of themselves. And I have Neanderthal genes.
Basically I felt the debates were a farce with everybody pretending that something important happened. I was neither impressed by anybody or disappointed by anybody. Sanders and Gillibrand and Warren at least focused on the one issue that I think really matters, the death of democracy due to the 1 %. If that isn't fixed nothing else will be.
- Apr 8, 2013
- 16,242
- 14,243
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Regardless of how little substance or genuineness you ascribe to any of these candidates, perception matters here because it affects how people vote. Perhaps not you, but people in general. This in turn is going to affect who becomes POTUS, whether it's Trump again or a democrat, and if so, which one. Which is hugely consequential. I tend to agree that politicians are generally full of hot air but I've got to keep watch on these debates because they have real impact. For better or worse, this debate will move the needle upward for Harris.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,856
- 31,345
- 146
dank69
Lifer
- Oct 6, 2009
- 37,345
- 32,964
- 136
Agree 100%. I can't believe she was the only one to recognize this. Everyone else dropped that ball.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
After watching both debates the final question from my wife before going to bed last night....who's your top 6?
1) Pete
2) Warren
3) Harris
4) Bernie
5) Biden
......... ?????
Neither of us could think of a 6th that even warranted listing. And I only include Bernie and Biden because the polling says I'm obligated to.
1) Pete
2) Warren
3) Harris
4) Bernie
5) Biden
......... ?????
Neither of us could think of a 6th that even warranted listing. And I only include Bernie and Biden because the polling says I'm obligated to.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
I thought Buttigeig was a sideshow until tonight. He may not win the presidency but would make a great running mate.
Biden accidentally took his Ambien just before the debate. His numbers should nosedive in the morning.
Bernie is just to out there for me.
The first pass the torch play was really good. Biden missed a great opportunity to show a sense of humor and just say “You got me kid. Well played”
Gillibrand came across as, well..nutso.
Gabbard is getting the support from the MAGAs as she is being pushed forward by the right. Something is a little off with her. Particularly in light of Russia apparently favoring her.
I don’t know what to make of Harris yet, but she seemed to have her shit together.
Some thoughts on the Harris-Biden exchange:
While it made for a good bit of theatrics (and let's face it: presidential campaign politics is at least 50% about who has the best theatrics), I don't know if it was the right move for Harris to call Biden out on race. Again, this was almost 50 years ago, so it's not anything new, and as a result it just might force the CBC people to yet again voice their support for Biden publicly and powerfully. Plus, it shows that she, like Booker, is eager to play the race card very early on. It could define them. Obama stayed away from this kind of stuff, and it's why he did so well in middle America, in the suburbs, in union halls, etc. Biden served as Barack Obama's sidekick for 8 years without any hint of a racial controversy. Her viral introduction to this primary campaign is going to be essentially calling the front-runner, Blue Collar Joe, a racist. There's a chance that might backfire on her among the voters Democrats absolutely, positively need to win over to win the White House.
Biden accidentally took his Ambien just before the debate. His numbers should nosedive in the morning.
Bernie is just to out there for me.
The first pass the torch play was really good. Biden missed a great opportunity to show a sense of humor and just say “You got me kid. Well played”
Gillibrand came across as, well..nutso.
Gabbard is getting the support from the MAGAs as she is being pushed forward by the right. Something is a little off with her. Particularly in light of Russia apparently favoring her.
I don’t know what to make of Harris yet, but she seemed to have her shit together.
Some thoughts on the Harris-Biden exchange:
While it made for a good bit of theatrics (and let's face it: presidential campaign politics is at least 50% about who has the best theatrics), I don't know if it was the right move for Harris to call Biden out on race. Again, this was almost 50 years ago, so it's not anything new, and as a result it just might force the CBC people to yet again voice their support for Biden publicly and powerfully. Plus, it shows that she, like Booker, is eager to play the race card very early on. It could define them. Obama stayed away from this kind of stuff, and it's why he did so well in middle America, in the suburbs, in union halls, etc. Biden served as Barack Obama's sidekick for 8 years without any hint of a racial controversy. Her viral introduction to this primary campaign is going to be essentially calling the front-runner, Blue Collar Joe, a racist. There's a chance that might backfire on her among the voters Democrats absolutely, positively need to win over to win the White House.
dank69
Lifer
- Oct 6, 2009
- 37,345
- 32,964
- 136
I thought Gillibrand also did well. Booker did better than I thought he would but he needs to be hammered on the big pharma issue. Saying opioid manufacturers need to be held accountable isn't enough to make up for the fact that when it came down to it, he voted to protect their ability to rape Americans. I think Pete absolutely killed it, and if I had to choose today he would be my top candidate.
glenn1
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2000
- 25,383
- 1,013
- 126
Out of the 3, I'd personally rather watch Mayor Pete debate Trump 1-on-1. There's like a 80 point IQ differential and he seems to have a knack for being able to casually dismiss Trump's antics when he can, and when he is pressed to respond to Trump's comments he does so in a way that both show how ridiculous Trump is and generates laughs without being mean-spirited.
dank69
Lifer
- Oct 6, 2009
- 37,345
- 32,964
- 136
When asked what he would address if he could only address one issue, Pete said repairing our Democracy, because then all the other issues will follow much faster. That is the correct answer.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
Now is when things get SUPER dicey for democrats. That "coalition" that they are built on is going to have to decide what they want. Push their individual narratives and wants, or suck it up and take the presidency. Race, reparations, taking away individual insurance, and ignoring if not shunning middle America is a losing ticket. You also have electability issues.
Pete tanks with anyone that isn't college educated and white.
Harris doesn't move the needle at all in middle america has the problem of "Black, and Woman".
Warren is the most palatable to a wide range of people but still pays the vagina tax.
I've been low on Biden from the start and went into last night wanting to not like him. And I came out really not liking him. So I have that bias, but I just don't see him being able to carry this to the finish. But is he still the most electable? Uhg.
Pete tanks with anyone that isn't college educated and white.
Harris doesn't move the needle at all in middle america has the problem of "Black, and Woman".
Warren is the most palatable to a wide range of people but still pays the vagina tax.
I've been low on Biden from the start and went into last night wanting to not like him. And I came out really not liking him. So I have that bias, but I just don't see him being able to carry this to the finish. But is he still the most electable? Uhg.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
My wife and I talked about him last night. He really hasn't unloaded on anyone and has been pretty conservative in his responses. But we both want to see him take the gloves off and verbally eviscerate someone on stage. Him and Harris are the two that I think are sharp enough to absolutely clown Trump in public and send him into a sniffing "NO YOU!" frenzy unlike any others.
Bitek
Lifer
- Aug 2, 2001
- 10,676
- 5,239
- 136
Pretty much agree, although I'd like to leave Yang in there for a bit as a different perspective and see if he can raise some other issues apart from the DNC focus issues.
He didn't really do that well tonight, and he'll never break out, but I'm not ready to cut the alternate voices out. At least not until fall.
Overall I do think it's a 3 person race:
Harris
Warren
Booti
As of now, I think one of the women will get the nom.
Problem with Booti is that he's at 1% with AAs, and the party had been carried by women and AAs in the age of Trump. He looks like VP material at this point.
If Harris can pull the AA vote behind her she'll be tough to overcome, but Warren is a fighter.
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dank69
Lifer
- Oct 6, 2009
- 37,345
- 32,964
- 136
Biden better fall in the polls, fast.
Chuck: What is the first issue you would address as President if you knew you could only address one issue?
Biden: Make sure we defeat Trump!
Dude, WTF? Biden will say multiple stupid things in the general election debates.
I think Biden is an okay guy but when it comes to answering questions directly he is no better than any Republican. Twice they asked for a show of hands, twice he semi-raised his hand in a waffly manner to maintain plausible deniablity so if he gets hammered for supporting the issue he can say "no you misunderstood I was raising my hand because I had a question, not because I supported it." Both times he was called out on it and asked directly if he supported or opposed, and both times he dodged. I get it, he has the name recognition that helps him lead in polls right now because so many people do not pay attention at all, but he is fucking the entire party by being in this.
Agreed, not sure it was the right move by her IMO. Playing the race card is not gonna win them an election.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,856
- 31,345
- 146
I wanted to say "free advice" but then you would have called me a communist.
Yeah that bothered me also about him. I think he was a fine VP under Obama, but other than that i dont care much for him really. He is part of the old established guard. Not progressive or forward thinking enough for my liking.
Eh, I like Pete a good amount - but after seeing the scene when he returned home kinda tells me he might be a little weak when under pressure. You could see the obvious frustration in him (which I don't blame him).
Private insurance will never go away. The elitists of both parties will never allow themselves to be stuck with what's good enough for the peasant class.
DrunkenSano
Diamond Member
- Aug 8, 2008
- 3,892
- 490
- 126
If Biden somehow still cruises to a win after this, something is seriously, seriously wrong. Bernie I don't think will win but the good thing about Bernie is that he is pushing the Democrats into a more progressive direction. He's definitely not standing out as much because more people are loudly tackling the subject of big pharma, the elites compared to before. Only question is if the person who wins will actually do anything about it.
I would like to see more of the following five:
Warren
Harris
Booti
Bernie
Gabbard
Fuck Biden, he should just retire.
I would like to see more of the following five:
Warren
Harris
Booti
Bernie
Gabbard
Fuck Biden, he should just retire.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
Yeah, I wish Biden had never thrown in. He sort of sucked all the oxygen out of the room by name recognition. Instead we got a past his prime, pearly white dentured husk of man. His voting records and "experience" are a liability vs this field and he's just distracting from the rest.
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