2016 Miata - R&T First Drive

[EightySix Four]

I wonder what portion of the market has no interest because they just don't fit. I can't fit in a Miata or an S2k. I'm a big guy but I literally look over the windshield in my buddies MSM, it looks like I'm in a clown car.

 

[JCH13]

I wonder what portion of the market has no interest because they just don't fit. I can't fit in a Miata or an S2k. I'm a big guy but I literally look over the windshield in my buddies MSM, it looks like I'm in a clown car.

I would wager that males 6'1" and less can fit into a Miata pretty okay, and that's ~90% of the male population, and even more of the female population.

There are a variety of options to improve Miatas for tall drivers, including cutting foam out of the seat(s) and aftermarket seats.

So, many 1:10 potential owners doesn't get one because of size, assuming only males buy Miatas. The number is probably closer to 1:20, if females are counted.

 

[Mermaidman]

My only semi-solid anecdotal evidence is that automatic Miatas are pretty darn rare to come across. Perhaps 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 is an automatic.

That may have been true for the NA and NB, but 2006+ Miata automatics are common, probably due in part to a vastly improved automatic transmission. I drive one

 

[EightySix Four]

There are a variety of options to improve Miatas for tall drivers, including cutting foam out of the seat(s) and aftermarket seats.

Was pretty sure the new one had the fabric wrapped around a little bit of seat frame seats instead of seats that you can cut foam out of, but I may be wrong.

 

[Brinson]

More HP would be nice, but I wouldn't pay $1 more for it nor take a loss of even 1 mpg. I'd take a slower miata if it meant better fuel economy. If I had a miata I wouldn't want to feel like I had to take my other car on a roadtrip to save on gas.

 

[MongGrel]

That may have been true for the NA and NB, but 2006+ Miata automatics are common, probably due in part to a vastly improved automatic transmission. I drive one

I found it amusing once some young man trying to selling headlight cleaner came running up to me once a a convenience store yelling "Wow, is that a 5 speed automatic" about my 2.3 MX-3 hatchback.

Was a bit amusing, but it a good transmission I suppose, if I were going to get a Miata is would be a manual shifter.

 

[Jumpem]

How many minivans and Foresters passed it at every traffic light? It needs the 2.3L from the MS3 to be competitive.

 

[JCH13]

How many minivans and Foresters passed it at every traffic light? It needs the 2.3L from the MS3 to be competitive.

Competitive with what?

 

[Midwayman]

Competitive with what?

Minivans of course.

 

[pauldun170]

How many minivans and Foresters passed it at every traffic light? It needs the 2.3L from the MS3 to be competitive.

Before I say what I want to say, I need to ask

First question
What Minivan\Forester is faster than a Miata?
Current Miata run 14.5 - 15 in the quarter and squirt off 6.5 - 7 seconds in 0-60.

Second question
What is the threshold where a Miata is considered "fast enough"
Today its Minivans. Tomorow its a V6 Camry. Then next day its an WRX or an Ecoboost Mustang.

 

[pauldun170]

I would wager that males 6'1" and less can fit into a Miata pretty okay, and that's ~90% of the male population, and even more of the female population.

There are a variety of options to improve Miatas for tall drivers, including cutting foam out of the seat(s) and aftermarket seats.

So, many 1:10 potential owners doesn't get one because of size, assuming only males buy Miatas. The number is probably closer to 1:20, if females are counted.

It has always cracked me up to see self proclaimed "Tall person" not even attempt to look at a Miata or Mini under the assumption "I ain't gonna fit" then watch them go out and buy something like a WRX or "fast" econobox. Seat all the way back, knees banging into the dash\steering column.

 

[Jumpem]

Competitive with what?

At being quicker than most of the other vehicles that aren't sports cars. I liked my Miata but traded it for an STi when my wife came home with a wagon (FXT) that was much quicker.

 

[Midwayman]

Before I say what I want to say, I need to ask

First question
What Minivan\Forester is faster than a Miata?
Current Miata run 14.5 - 15 in the quarter and squirt off 6.5 - 7 seconds in 0-60.

Second question
What is the threshold where a Miata is considered "fast enough"
Today its Minivans. Tomorow its a V6 Camry. Then next day its an WRX or an Ecoboost Mustang.

Well a forrester XT runs 14.3@96. V6 minivans seem to be just under 16s@90mph ish. Not sure if there is special performance edition I'm missing or something though.

As for 'fast enough' That's a moving line. I'd say a 'sports' car should be at least as fast as v6 common sedans like the accord and camry. (excluding performance editions if applicable.)

 

[Jumpem]

Before I say what I want to say, I need to ask

First question
What Minivan\Forester is faster than a Miata?
Current Miata run 14.5 - 15 in the quarter and squirt off 6.5 - 7 seconds in 0-60.

Second question
What is the threshold where a Miata is considered "fast enough"
Today its Minivans. Tomorow its a V6 Camry. Then next day its an WRX or an Ecoboost Mustang.

Previous generation Forester XT's were ~5 seconds to sixty. The current generation is 6 seconds.

I think a Miata being at WRX speeds to 60 is a good starting point.

 

[JCH13]

Previous generation Forester XT's were ~5 seconds to sixty. The current generation is 6 seconds.

I think a Miata being at WRX speeds to 60 is a good starting point.

You are entitled to your opinion.

That car exists already, it's called the Nissan 370Z. It occupies the price bracket just above the MX5 and is a front-engine, RWD, 2-seat convertible/coupe.

The MX5 and 370Z sell about the same number every year, which wouldn't happen if they were directly competing with each other.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/nissan-370z-sales-figures.html
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/mazda-mx-5-miata-sales-figures.html

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the Miata has a niche carved out for itself: small, light, cheap, top-down fun. Changing any of these aspects makes the Miata a different car that's already being made.

Why do so many people want to change the Miata instead of getting the car that they actually want?

 

[Jumpem]

You are entitled to your opinion.

That car exists already, it's called the Nissan 370Z. It occupies the price bracket just above the MX5 and is a front-engine, RWD, 2-seat convertible/coupe.

The MX5 and 370Z sell about the same number every year, which wouldn't happen if they were directly competing with each other.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/nissan-370z-sales-figures.html
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/mazda-mx-5-miata-sales-figures.html

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the Miata has a niche carved out for itself: small, light, cheap, top-down fun. Changing any of these aspects makes the Miata a different car that's already being made.

Why do so many people want to change the Miata instead of getting the car that they actually want?

The 370Z is a much larger car. I liked the small size of the Miata. If it were a coupe with twice the power it would be perfect.

The Miata is also no longer cheap. My 2003 Sport was $16,900 new. Now you can get a WRX for the same money. Which is much quicker and AWD.

 

[Midwayman]

You are entitled to your opinion.

That car exists already, it's called the Nissan 370Z. It occupies the price bracket just above the MX5 and is a front-engine, RWD, 2-seat convertible/coupe.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the Miata has a niche carved out for itself: small, light, cheap, top-down fun. Changing any of these aspects makes the Miata a different car that's already being made.

Why do so many people want to change the Miata instead of getting the car that they actually want?

Well because the 370z isn't the car a lot of people want. Its way way more expensive in convertible trim. Its also a very heavy car. If you were to pick a competitor to the miata I'd say something like the BRZ is way closer. (no vert I know) I should ask why you're so dead set against the idea of a performance variant of the Miata? A 200ish hp variant around $30k would probably do pretty well.

 

[pauldun170]

You are entitled to your opinion.

That car exists already, it's called the Nissan 370Z. It occupies the price bracket just above the MX5 and is a front-engine, RWD, 2-seat convertible/coupe.

The MX5 and 370Z sell about the same number every year, which wouldn't happen if they were directly competing with each other.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/nissan-370z-sales-figures.html
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/mazda-mx-5-miata-sales-figures.html

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the Miata has a niche carved out for itself: small, light, cheap, top-down fun. Changing any of these aspects makes the Miata a different car that's already being made.

Why do so many people want to change the Miata instead of getting the car that they actually want?

seconded

 

[thedarkwolf]

The 370Z is a much larger car. I liked the small size of the Miata. If it were a coupe with twice the power it would be perfect.

The Miata is also no longer cheap. My 2003 Sport was $16,900 new. Now you can get a WRX for the same money. Which is much quicker and AWD.

and is nothing like a miata

And in 2003 my dad bought a brand new mustang gt for $18k which was also much quicker.

Have they announced pricing on the 2016 miata yet? Only thing I can find is sub $25k

 

[Sulaco]

Well because the 370z isn't the car a lot of people want. Its way way more expensive in convertible trim. Its also a very heavy car. If you were to pick a competitor to the miata I'd say something like the BRZ is way closer. (no vert I know) I should ask why you're so dead set against the idea of a performance variant of the Miata? A 200ish hp variant around $30k would probably do pretty well.

You do realize a "performance variant" of the Miata was already tried, correct? The Mazdaspeed Miata.

And the sales were horrible.

There was also this car called the Honda S2000. Basically, everything you're asking for. It's sales slowed to almost nil in the waning years of its life, despite selling for WELL under invoice and having its own niche within a niche.

As, frankly, most "niche" variants of already niche cars tend to be. The Solstice/Sky GXP/Redline were the "performance variants" of the two last true Miata competitors, and they sold far below that of the NA versions of those cars (and, ironically, less than the MX-5)

There is the internet forum/car magazine/paper racer idea that these types of performance variants on extremely niche cars need to exist for bragging rights and the "true enthusiasts", but then inevitably, they rarely put their money where their mouth is and actually buy the cars. They're great for arguing on internet forums and busting out e-Peen 0-60 comparisons, but too few actually show up at the show rooms.

Companies like Mazda aren't McLaren, or Ferrari, or even Porsche. Making sub-categories of already niche products that don't sell well already for "bragging rights" is not a recipe for success.

Also, the latest iteration of the MX-5, the NC3 "Club", clocks in around 6.0seconds 0-60 (6.1 stated by Motortend).
That's not OMGBBQWTF "fast", but its definitely respectable. Certainly when factoring in how if you're buying a Miata to go fast in straight lines, you're doing it wrong.

 

[JCH13]

The 370Z is a much larger car. I liked the small size of the Miata. If it were a coupe with twice the power it would be perfect.

The Miata is also no longer cheap. My 2003 Sport was $16,900 new. Now you can get a WRX for the same money. Which is much quicker and AWD.

I realize the 370Z is a larger car. What do you think would happen to an OEM Miata if the power were doubled? Do you think it would magically stay the same size and weight? Of course not.

The 2015 MX5 starts at <$24k, which is very close to $16,900 in 2002-dollars. The actual price of the vehicle hasn't really increased over the years.

And if you want a better 0-60 time, get a WRX. Have fun with an econobox that gets poor fuel economy and understeers like it's on a mission. You're focusing on one performance metric at the exclusion of all other metrics (both tangible and intangible) and that is a very sad way to look at cars.

Well because the 370z isn't the car a lot of people want. Its way way more expensive in convertible trim. Its also a very heavy car. If you were to pick a competitor to the miata I'd say something like the BRZ is way closer. (no vert I know) I should ask why you're so dead set against the idea of a performance variant of the Miata? A 200ish hp variant around $30k would probably do pretty well.

Exactly! The 370Z is a 200hpish Miata that costs $30k, but it doesn't do that well. What the market, not internet e-peen-wagging self-labeled "enthusiasts", actually want is the Miata. The few people who actually want a faster Miata modify theirs.

I, of all people, am not dead-set against the idea of a fast Miata. I got a turbo Miata for a reason. But I am enlightened enough to understand that Mazda will never (and should never) compromise on the original design intent and principles of the Miata. It's a bad business decision, it's doesn't appeal to a wide variety of buyers, and it would mask the intangible 'fun factor' that has made the Miata so successful. People like me, who actually own a faster Miata, are not common and could not support the sales of a specialized "high performance" version of the Miata, not for very long anyway.

You do realize a "performance variant" of the Miata was already tried, correct? The Mazdaspeed Miata.

And the sales were horrible.

There was also this car called the Honda S2000. Basically, everything you're asking for. It's sales slowed to almost nil in the waning years of its life, despite selling for WELL under invoice and having its own niche within a niche.

As, frankly, most "niche" variants of already niche cars tend to be. The Solstice/Sky GXP/Redline were the "performance variants" of the two last true Miata competitors, and they sold far below that of the NA versions of those cars (and, ironically, less than the MX-5)

There is the internet forum/car magazine/paper racer idea that these types of performance variants on extremely niche cars need to exist for bragging rights and the "true enthusiasts", but then inevitably, they rarely put their money where their mouth is and actually buy the cars. They're great for arguing on internet forums and busting out e-Peen 0-60 comparisons, but too few actually show up at the show rooms.

Companies like Mazda aren't McLaren, or Ferrari, or even Porsche. Making sub-categories of already niche products that don't sell well already for "bragging rights" is not a recipe for success.

Also, the latest iteration of the MX-5, the NC3 "Club", clocks in around 6.0seconds 0-60 (6.1 stated by Motortend).
That's not OMGBBQWTF "fast", but its definitely respectable. Certainly when factoring in how if you're buying a Miata to go fast in straight lines, you're doing it wrong.

This, this, this.

Mazda understands their actual target market for this car, and they've been doing it right for longer and with more success than any other car maker ever. Yeah, a 200hp Miata would be fun, no one is arguing against that point, but there is no compelling reason for Mazda to make it.

 

[Smoblikat]

I think this is the first time in my life a company has made a new car thats better than the model it replaced.

 

[Tuanies]

I think this is the first time in my life a company has made a new car thats better than the model it replaced.

Have you not seen all the Hyundai/Kia's made in the last decade? The rest of the Mazda lineup is the same way. All the current vehicles are way better than the previous generations.

 

[Jumpem]

I realize the 370Z is a larger car. What do you think would happen to an OEM Miata if the power were doubled? Do you think it would magically stay the same size and weight? Of course not.

The 2015 MX5 starts at <$24k, which is very close to $16,900 in 2002-dollars. The actual price of the vehicle hasn't really increased over the years.

And if you want a better 0-60 time, get a WRX. Have fun with an econobox that gets poor fuel economy and understeers like it's on a mission. You're focusing on one performance metric at the exclusion of all other metrics (both tangible and intangible) and that is a very sad way to look at cars.

Flyin' Miata gets close to double the power with no size increase, and a very minimal weight increase.

 

[JCH13]

Flyin' Miata gets close to double the power with no size increase, and a very minimal weight increase.

Your point is totally invalid because you're comparing the modified car to what an OEM could produce. Modified cars are not OEM quality anymore. Sometimes they're better, usually they're worse, and very rarely do they last as long. FM does stand behind their super charger kit with a (short) warranty, but that is the exception, not the rule. Plus the FM kits are not required to meet any of the mandated requirements such as fuel economy, emissions, stability, or safety. Not to mention that adding a serious power-train variant adds complexity into the parts supply chain, manufacturing, documentation, and other costs that increase the price of the vehicle.

A lot of people routinely ask "why didn't they do x from the factory?" The answer is: a lot of reasons that you don't know.