2016 Miata Live Reveal on Youtube

[Elfear]

It does in every way except a drag race. Which it was never designed or intended to do.

True but it's not like Accords and Camrys are dragstrip terrors either. They're about the plainest family sedans you can buy and I'd hope a sports car could at least equal them (if not outright trounce them) in performance tests.

If you want to beat up grandma in her CamCord, there are plenty of blunt instruments better suited to the task.

If you want to experience the pure thrill of driving, in a car that is a telepathic extension of your will, then you want surgical instrument like the MX-5. Top down, heel-toe shifting, and balancing a 4-wheel drift through a corner with the throttle is sublime.

You make good points. The intent of the Miata was never to be a streetlight monster. But, cars in the sports car category should be able to out muscle a grandma in her dowdy family sedan.

I like the new car overall. It's a little too pinched in the front end for my tastes but otherwise I think it looks good.

 

[Kaido]

Uhhh I may not need a BRZ anymore...

 

[Kaido]

Every generation of Miata gets older and older.

Tom Cruise gets older ever day too: (ignore the video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J9KRZ0PnAs

 

[MiataNC]

You make good points. The intent of the Miata was never to be a streetlight monster. But, cars in the sports car category should be able to out muscle a grandma in her dowdy family sedan.

Says who? Where is this rule written in stone and blessed by the automotive industry?

Big sedans in the '60s could out muscle Jags, Triumphs, MGs, sunbeams etc, and those cars have always been considered sports cars. The Miata has always been the British Roadster done right (i.e. reliable). No more and no less. People who expect more simply do not know automotive history.

 

[GTaudiophile]

It needs bigger rims.

 

[theeedude]

MX-5 was designed on purpose to not have too much power, and not to have too much traction. That way, you rev the engine and push the car to the limit more in daily driving, which is part of the fun formula of the car.

 

[Crono]

MX-5 was designed on purpose to not have too much power, and not to have too much traction. That way, you rev the engine and push the car to the limit more in daily driving, which is part of the fun formula of the car.

Yeah, otherwise you end up with cars like Porsches, which people routinely wreck when underestimating power and speed.
(Not that Porsche's roadsters don't have their own appeal)

 

[Wuzup101]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1qgtCt1jG0

Jay talks about it being the perfectly balanced car... Not the fastest but plenty of power. Jay has a Jackson racing supercharger with an air/water intercooler. Does that mean that the stock setup didn't have plenty of power?

Love the looks of the new miata but it needs more go juice. Why have something with the looks of a sports car and the power of a horse drawn carriage. It would be nice if they at least offered an upmarket version with a turbo or s/c setup.

Yes I know that I don't get it... That's the point.

 

[Sulaco]

Jay talks about it being the perfectly balanced car... Not the fastest but plenty of power. Jay has a Jackson racing supercharger with an air/water intercooler. Does that mean that the stock setup didn't have plenty of power?

Love the looks of the new miata but it needs more go juice. Why have something with the looks of a sports car and the power of a horse drawn carriage. It would be nice if they at least offered an upmarket version with a turbo or s/c setup.

Yes I know that I don't get it... That's the point.

That NA with the supercharger isn't exactly the fastest either, probably as fast as a stock NC.

The fact is though people always ask for more power, more speed....but they never want to pay for it.
The Solstice GXP/Sky Redline sold a pittance compared to its cheaper N/a brothers, before ultimately failing in 3 years.
The S2000 sales numbers were also poor, and let's not forget the Mazdaspeed Miata, the faster, turboed version of the NB, was a sales disaster at the time.

Paper racers always want " a little more power", but very few will actually pay for it, at least in this segment.
There's no official word yet on what the power numbers will be, but the scuttlebutt is around 180hp, while more importantly, losing around 200lbs, which if true, will make the car very quick.
Lighter weight trumps heavier horsepower any day.

 

[GTaudiophile]

My NA Miata use to be my DD when I lived in the ATL. My agility and maneuverability meant that I was the quicker than 95% of all commuters...and was having more fun and getting better MPGs while doing it!

 

[Ferzerp]

I see an awful lot of excuses in this thread for the anemic performance in many areas.

Perhaps the Miata masses would get less eye rolling if they would just admit the car's appeal is that it is decent, and relatively cheap as well as admitting its major drawbacks. The hyperbole (similar to the Toybaru) just makes everyone else unable to take you seriously. We get it, it's a cheapish car that performs ok. Stop pretending it is the best car ever.


edit: it makes it really hard to take that group seriously when someone unironically claims that Porsche's have too much power. You can tell you're not arguing from an informed position.

 

[Howard]

It needs bigger rims.

I happen to like smaller wheels. It means the engineers know what they're doing. A car like this doesn't need big brakes and the wheels should be as small as possible to minimize unsprung weight and inertia.

 

[theeedude]

I see an awful lot of excuses in this thread for the anemic performance in many areas.

Perhaps the Miata masses would get less eye rolling if they would just admit the car's appeal is that it is decent, and relatively cheap as well as admitting its major drawbacks. The hyperbole (similar to the Toybaru) just makes everyone else unable to take you seriously. We get it, it's a cheapish car that performs ok. Stop pretending it is the best car ever.


edit: it makes it really hard to take that group seriously when someone unironically claims that Porsche's have too much power. You can tell you're not arguing from an informed position.

Depends what you want from a car. If you want HP figures to compensate for whatever, then Miata is not for you. If you are secure about your junk and want something that brings you pure driving enjoyment, then you may want to drive one. More power would take away from a Miata, because you would not be able to use it on public roads without driving like an idiot. Miata recipe for fun is to let you safely use all of the car's abilities in everyday driving. That means everything from power to traction is in just right amounts and not more. Again, if your recipe for enjoyment is knowing you can "smoke" someone else, Miata is not going to be that car. If you derive enjoyment from the driving experience independent of what others are doing, that's what it's for.

 

[MiataNC]

I see an awful lot of excuses in this thread for the anemic performance in many areas.

Perhaps the Miata masses would get less eye rolling if they would just admit the car's appeal is that it is decent, and relatively cheap as well as admitting its major drawbacks. The hyperbole (similar to the Toybaru) just makes everyone else unable to take you seriously. We get it, it's a cheapish car that performs ok. Stop pretending it is the best car ever.


edit: it makes it really hard to take that group seriously when someone unironically claims that Porsche's have too much power. You can tell you're not arguing from an informed position.

More MX-5s are road raced on any given weekend than any other make or model ever produced. There are plenty of cheap cars you can setup for the track. I guess all those men and women racing MX-5s just don't get it. I will be sure to tell the Spec Miata guys they are doing it wrong the next time I walk the paddock. I am sure your insights will be an epiphany for them.

 

[Ferzerp]

Depends what you want from a car. If you want HP figures to compensate for whatever, then Miata is not for you. If you are secure about your junk and want something that brings you pure driving enjoyment, then you may want to drive one. More power would take away from a Miata, because you would not be able to use it on public roads without driving like an idiot. Miata recipe for fun is to let you safely use all of the car's abilities in everyday driving. That means everything from power to traction is in just right amounts and not more. Again, if your recipe for enjoyment is knowing you can "smoke" someone else, Miata is not going to be that car. If you derive enjoyment from the driving experience independent of what others are doing, that's what it's for.

Your obsession with my junk is cute, but it doesn't make the Miata a better car than it is, sorry.

More MX-5s are road raced on any given weekend than any other make or model ever produced. There are plenty of cheap cars you can setup for the track. I guess all those men and women racing MX-5s just don't get it. I will be sure to tell the Spec Miata guys they are doing it wrong the next time I walk the paddock. I am sure your insights will be an epiphany for them.

Amusingly, you've reiterated my point for me. The car is ok, and it is cheap. There is a low barrier for entry. The popularity is based on it being the cheapest ok car, not by it being a great car. It's funny how quickly you try to defend its performance by saying how popular it is (which instead if more an indicator of the price of the vehicle).

 

[theeedude]

Your obsession with my junk is cute, but it doesn't make the Miata a better car than it is, sorry.

It's not a good car FOR YOU. Don't buy it. It's not for everyone, no one is disputing that. Mazda made the right decisions for their target customer of people who just enjoy driving their cars, instead of comparing it to others.
Saying MX-5 needs more power because Camry has it is like saying wine needs to have more alcohol because whiskey does.

 

[MiataNC]

Amusingly, you've reiterated my point for me. The car is ok, and it is cheap. There is a low barrier for entry. The popularity is based on it being the cheapest ok car, not by it being a great car. It's funny how quickly you try to defend its performance by saying how popular it is (which instead if more an indicator of the price of the vehicle).

HP UBER ALLES! :whiste:

I have finally seen the light. No car can be great unless it meets Ferzerp's arbitrary measurement that elevates it beyond "OK'. I am going to run out and change my forum name post haste. The truth has set me free. :whiste:

 

[Howard]

Amusingly, you've reiterated my point for me. The car is ok, and it is cheap. There is a low barrier for entry. The popularity is based on it being the cheapest ok car, not by it being a great car. It's funny how quickly you try to defend its performance by saying how popular it is (which instead if more an indicator of the price of the vehicle).

How many roundups do you need to see that say the Miata is one of the most-fun-to-drive cars ever built?

 

[Sulaco]

Your obsession with my junk is cute, but it doesn't make the Miata a better car than it is, sorry.





Amusingly, you've reiterated my point for me. The car is ok, and it is cheap. There is a low barrier for entry. The popularity is based on it being the cheapest ok car, not by it being a great car. It's funny how quickly you try to defend its performance by saying how popular it is (which instead if more an indicator of the price of the vehicle).

Except there have been countless other cars that have competed with the MX-5 in that segment, and every single one of them either failed outright, or moved significantly up market, well, WELL out of the MX-5 range.

If designing a "cheapish" car with "ok" performance was all it took, there would be dozens in the market right now. They're not, because cars aren't designed and driven on paper. Or rather, on internet message forums.

There's a reason it has won basically every conceivable automotive award out there in the last 25 years. Yes, even from people who review, own, and drive much more expensive sports cars. I'm among them. Because the fun, connected feel of the car doesn't require a HP-1/4 mile time next to it. That's for the teenagers, the insecure, and the paper racers.

No one needs to "prove" anything to you, though. You're entitled to your opinion, but you're also in the vast minority, especially amongst informed and knowledgeable automotive enthusiasts.

 

[Ferzerp]

Read what I've actually said. I never said it isn't exceptional in its segment, was a bad car, etc. The point is the segment is massively underwhelming so it doesn't take much. I'm not sure why people find it personally offensive to suggest this (actually I do, it brings to mind that study that found a link between individuals being major fans of a thing projecting failures or any criticisms of that thing as reflections of themselves). It is an ok car. It is cheap. There are plenty of much, much better cars. If that style is your thing, there are the Boxster, and the Exige as easily superior cars. It's only when we limit ourselves to cheap cars that the Miata looks good. However, as evidenced by the responses here, pointing out such a thing results in ad hominem attacks immediately.

I'll call it amazing when we can give individuals a free car with a choice of a say, a Miata, a 4C, a Boxster/Cayman, an Exige, and a Carrera and they would actually choose the Miata. Until that time, it is what it is: an ok cheap car.

 

[Sulaco]

Read what I've actually said. I never said it isn't exceptional in its segment, was a bad car, etc. The point is the segment is massively underwhelming so it doesn't take much. I'm not sure why people find it personally offensive to suggest this (actually I do, it brings to mind that study that found a link between individuals being major fans of a thing projecting failures or any criticisms of that thing as reflections of themselves). It is an ok car. It is cheap. There are plenty of much, much better cars. If that style is your thing, there are the Boxster, and the Exige as easily superior cars. It's only when we limit ourselves to cheap cars that the Miata looks good. However, as evidenced by the responses here, pointing out such a thing results in ad hominem attacks immediately.

I'll call it amazing when we can give individuals a free car with a choice of a say, a Miata, a 4C, a Boxster/Cayman, an Exige, and a Carrera and they would actually choose the Miata. Until that time, it is what it is: an ok cheap car.

But that's just a completely asinine argument. Cars and the market do not exist in a vacuum, so economy can never be taken out of the equation.

A Boxster or exige are how much? $50,000 or more, plus inevitable maintenance. That's twice the cost, easily. Of course they should perform better. Nobody is saying they don't.
Your argument also fails because you can just turn it right around on itself: "Why does everyone like these Boxsters and Lotuses when you can get a 458?!? I mean, an Exige is ok, but why bother when you can get a McClaren??"

If you cannot see the sheer asininty of your argument, then I don't know what to say.

 

[yhelothar]

I happen to like smaller wheels. It means the engineers know what they're doing. A car like this doesn't need big brakes and the wheels should be as small as possible to minimize unsprung weight and inertia.

Agreed. I'm glad Mazda didn't cater to the stance bros. Most people who bought the Mazdaspeed Miata that came with 17" wheels was to replace them with ligther 15" wheels that significantly improved the ride quality and handling.

The ND is 100kg lighter than the NC has it's reported that it has smaller brakes than the NC and the same size brakes as the NB. Given how focused Mazda was on reducing the weight on the ND, the 16 inch wheels would be a better match for it.

 

[Ferzerp]

If you cannot see the sheer asininty of your argument, then I don't know what to say.

No one would ever even think of such a stupid comment as "the answer is always Cayman", but the Miata fans do so unironically. With such a silly claim, my argument is a perfectly valid one. If you're going to make such wild assertions as the Miata fans do, don't be surprised when you're called to task on it. *That* is the difference. Exceptional claims require exceptional proof. The Miata fans are fond of making grandiose claims about the car, but they aren't supported.

edit: It's also kind of funny that you honed in on the 458. Performance-wise, it really isn't overly impressive. There are plenty of far cheaper cars that are superior from a performance standpoint. And therein lies a major difference. At the cost of a Miata, you can't get a car that performs favorably compared to more expensive vehicles. Once you get in to a higher cost tier though, you end up with many cost effective cars that perform as well or better than some of the obscenely priced ones (until you get to the truly boutique level of cars).

 

[Sulaco]

No one would ever even think of such a stupid comment as "the answer is always Cayman", but the Miata fans do so unironically. With such a silly claim, my argument is a perfectly valid one. If you're going to make such wild assertions as the Miata fans do, don't be surprised when you're called to task on it. *That* is the difference.

And why do you think that meme exists?

Because the car is so inexpensive and bullet proof.

No one is saying it's superior performance wise to a Cayman. Lol. Lighten up, chief. The meme and love for the car exists precisely for the reason that you yourself even mentioned, and that is at that price point, in that segment, there's nothing that comes close as a platform that's:

-inexpensive
-bullet proof reliable
-low weight
-practical daily driver
-low cost of ownership/insurance
-tremendous chassis
-enormous aftermarket
-responds well to inexpensive modifications
-so well balanced right out of the gate


...amongst others.

No one is saying they are world beaters. They're saying there are precious few that do what the mx5 does, as easily and reliably as it does, at the price point it does it at.

 

[MongGrel]

I'm still salivating over the thing myself, but probably don't have the free cash to get one in the future.

Maybe.