2013 Camaro V6 rental

[NoCreativity]

Not sure why anyone is suprised about a GM with a small trunk opening. It's their MO, good size trunk, small opening. Well that and an arm rest that can't be used at the same time as the cup holder.

 

[Arkaign]

I doubt that. Next M5? No manual.

Took a quick look at the largest BMW dealer in town (far from scientific, I know). 145 total new BMW vehicles and 3 are manual. Checked the largest Cadillac dealership with 160 and they had 0. I don't think MT is a big issue for anyone, but Cadillac has at least included a MT with most of their 'enthusiast' cars if you build them yourself. Its tough to find manuals anywhere these days...:/

I wonder if economy cars will be the last bastion of manuals. I exclusively buy manuals, just about every car I've owned has been manual. Current stable : 2008 Focus S 5MT, 2006 Kia Rio Lx 5MT, 2012 Scion TC 6MT. Looking at '10+ G37S Sedan 6MT to replace the Focus and Rio, the manual is hard to find.

 

[phucheneh]

I wonder if economy cars will be the last bastion of manuals. I exclusively buy manuals, just about every car I've owned has been manual. Current stable : 2008 Focus S 5MT, 2006 Kia Rio Lx 5MT, 2012 Scion TC 6MT. Looking at '10+ G37S Sedan 6MT to replace the Focus and Rio, the manual is hard to find.

I've seen maybe one manual G sedan. Maybe none...

You see them almost exclusively in coupes with sport packages- stiffer suspension and the 19" staggered wheel/tire setups. I think the seats may also be different; very 'bolstery.' Or maybe that's all coupes. I forget.

Some makes just tend to have plenty of manuals on the lot, and some don't. I had my pick of 5spd (and 6spd, I believe, if I went with the upgraded engine) Mazdas. I asked a Hyundai dealer about getting a 5spd Elantra (the new one had just come out) and got laughed at.

You would think the 'ultimate driving machine' would at least keep an option for a real manual. In the 1/3/5's, at least. And the roadster, if they still make that.

 

[Arkaign]

They're out there, just hard to find. Worth it, imho though. I drove a G35 6MT Sport Sedan, and it really was a very nice setup.

Here's basically exactly the car I want, only I need to find it in black :

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...00&searchRadius=200&listingId=331455158&Log=0

 

[Ferzerp]

I wonder if economy cars will be the last bastion of manuals

Shelby mustang is manual only... :whiste:

 

[phucheneh]

I was going to say you should try driving a sport model; then I saw the 'S' on the back. I guess they just don't make the sedans as aggressive...appears to have smaller wheels and a higher stance.

Even the base model G37's handle really damned nicely, though. They feel similar to the older 35's (I assuming you drove the previous gen? I think there were 1-2 crossover years with new body/old engine), but the whatever tweaking they did made the car feel a lot more stuck to the road...it's got the same mannerisms, just with stupid grip (especially compared to the 'entry level luxury' cars it's usually grouped with).

The coupe goes even further, but it is a bit of a rough ride. Perhaps the S sedan will be a nice mid-ground.

 

[exar333]

I wonder if economy cars will be the last bastion of manuals. I exclusively buy manuals, just about every car I've owned has been manual. Current stable : 2008 Focus S 5MT, 2006 Kia Rio Lx 5MT, 2012 Scion TC 6MT. Looking at '10+ G37S Sedan 6MT to replace the Focus and Rio, the manual is hard to find.

Performance will be the majority of MTs. That is what has fueled almost a doubling of MT cars sold this year compared to 2011. CVTs and 7-8speed autos will replace MTs in eco cars. New AT transmissions suck too...

 

[overst33r]

New AT transmissions suck too...

You must have not driven any car with the ZF 8 speed. Amazing transmission. Imperceptible shifts, holds gears, etc.

 

[phucheneh]

Performance will be the majority of MTs. That is what has fueled almost a doubling of MT cars sold this year compared to 2011. CVTs and 7-8speed autos will replace MTs in eco cars. New AT transmissions suck too...

CVT's, probably. 7-8 speeds...I don't see it. With proper gearing, you can get similar mileage out of a trans with less gears...and that costs less, so that's probably hat they're gonna use.

 

[exar333]

CVT's, probably. 7-8 speeds...I don't see it. With proper gearing, you can get similar mileage out of a trans with less gears...and that costs less, so that's probably hat they're gonna use.

Chrysler is putting an 8-speed in the new 300 and they are prepping a 9 speed as well. I don't think these will be an anolomy down the road.

Most people want slow, numb vehicles. New AT transmissions do exactly that.

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/09/04/2012-chrysler-300-dodge-charger-get-31-mpg-thanks-to-8-speed-tr/

 

[nerp]

You must have not driven any car with the ZF 8 speed. Amazing transmission. Imperceptible shifts, holds gears, etc.

He obviously hasn't. I don't think I'd ever want a MT again after having one in my car. Can't wait until they start putting it in the SRTs.

 

[nerp]

Chrysler is putting an 8-speed in the new 300 and they are prepping a 9 speed as well. I don't think these will be an anolomy down the road.

Most people want slow, numb vehicles. New AT transmissions do exactly that.

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/09/04/2012-chrysler-300-dodge-charger-get-31-mpg-thanks-to-8-speed-tr/

If the new ATs make slow numb vehicles why does the 300 and the Charger with the ZF have better performance than the exact same car with the 5 speed AT? Like, way better performance from 0-60 and across the entire range?

And people continue to ignore the fact that newer ATs have better fuel economy and performance than their MT equivalents.

 

[LTC8K6]

The ZF 8 speed is also now in the new RAM full size pickup with the new pentastar V6, giving it 18/25mpg and greatly improved acceleration. 7.6 seconds to 60 for a full size V6 pickup. Also has a stop-start system.

 

[exar333]

0-60 times do not describe how a car accelerates. Many modern cars wityh pretty good 0-60 times (say 6-8 seconds) often times have a terrible AT. Sure, it will accelerate well if you mash the pedal to the floor, but that's all it does. It is either numb or in 5500rpm screaming. Don't kid yourselves. These cars are geared for MPGs mostly, and the 0-60 numbers are purely for those who want to compare check-box values in a magazine comparison.

 

[LTC8K6]

0-60 times do not describe how a car accelerates. Many modern cars wityh pretty good 0-60 times (say 6-8 seconds) often times have a terrible AT. Sure, it will accelerate well if you mash the pedal to the floor, but that's all it does. It is either numb or in 5500rpm screaming. Don't kid yourselves. These cars are geared for MPGs mostly, and the 0-60 numbers are purely for those who want to compare check-box values in a magazine comparison.

If they were geared for mpgs, we wouldn't have the big acceleration improvements also.

I've never heard anything but praise for the ZF 8 speed.

Chrysler is also building them under license, and I suppose they could screw them up, but I have not heard any complaints.

 

[CraigRT]

I just cannot get excited about these cars, I don't like the looks, or the practicality..

Challenger+Mustang > Camaro

 

[nerp]

0-60 times do not describe how a car accelerates. Many modern cars wityh pretty good 0-60 times (say 6-8 seconds) often times have a terrible AT. Sure, it will accelerate well if you mash the pedal to the floor, but that's all it does. It is either numb or in 5500rpm screaming. Don't kid yourselves. These cars are geared for MPGs mostly, and the 0-60 numbers are purely for those who want to compare check-box values in a magazine comparison.

When you actually drive one daily and realize your post is a heaping pile of bullshit, get back to me.

 

[phucheneh]

When you actually drive one daily and realize your post is a heaping pile of bullshit, get back to me.

When you come to understand that some people just prefer driving manuals, get back to me.

 

[ElFenix]

0-60 times do not describe how a car accelerates. Many modern cars wityh pretty good 0-60 times (say 6-8 seconds) often times have a terrible AT. Sure, it will accelerate well if you mash the pedal to the floor, but that's all it does. It is either numb or in 5500rpm screaming. Don't kid yourselves. These cars are geared for MPGs mostly, and the 0-60 numbers are purely for those who want to compare check-box values in a magazine comparison.

i don't understand the 'i want it to accelerate hard in 8th gear (the 3rd overdrive) at 80 mph' crowd.

 

[exar333]

When you come to understand that some people just prefer driving manuals, get back to me.

This.

Drives me nuts when people only look at HP values and 0-60 times to determine if a car is 'fun to drive'. You need to drive it first.

There are some (not many though) ATs that are good. Usually they are on higher-powered cars though. When you already have 300hp+, you don't need a really awesome AT to enjoy it. When you have ~180hp, a good AT vs. crappy makes a WORLD of difference. And both cars may very well have the same hp/0-60 times you read in your 'Car and Driver' magazine.

This is why we drive manuals, because we can control the gear we are in and not a computer. It's really pretty simple.

 

[LTC8K6]

This.

Drives me nuts when people only look at HP values and 0-60 times to determine if a car is 'fun to drive'. You need to drive it first.

There are some (not many though) ATs that are good. Usually they are on higher-powered cars though. When you already have 300hp+, you don't need a really awesome AT to enjoy it. When you have ~180hp, a good AT vs. crappy makes a WORLD of difference. And both cars may very well have the same hp/0-60 times you read in your 'Car and Driver' magazine.

This is why we drive manuals, because we can control the gear we are in and not a computer. It's really pretty simple.

Hold on a minute. A poster said that the new AT's sucked and were slow.

My responses were to indicate that the new AT's are good, and not slow at all, in fact much faster than the old ones, and that manuals are disappearing.

Nothing to do with fun to drive...and manuals can be shit to drive in traffic in my experience.

And I've only driven one auto that did this, and it was a three speed in an old Ford Tempo:

Originally Posted by ExarKun333
0-60 times do not describe how a car accelerates. Many modern cars wityh pretty good 0-60 times (say 6-8 seconds) often times have a terrible AT. Sure, it will accelerate well if you mash the pedal to the floor, but that's all it does. It is either numb or in 5500rpm screaming. Don't kid yourselves. These cars are geared for MPGs mostly, and the 0-60 numbers are purely for those who want to compare check-box values in a magazine comparison.

 

[Childs]

After a friend rode in my Challenger, that weekend he went an bought his mid life crisis car: Camaro SS SS. Its pretty nice. Its like a gunmetal gray with black rims. Like you noted with the rental, its huge and small at the same time. The inside makes my Challenger feel like a limo. My friend is 6'4", and looks kinda cramped in it. In my car he can extend his legs. Visibility also seems low.

Still, its hard to go wrong with any of these modern muscle cars, even the V6's. I see people driving the V6's, and they smiling ear to ear like they have supercharged V8s. Such fun cars to drive.

 

[nerp]

When you come to understand that some people just prefer driving manuals, get back to me.

It's not a matter of preference. It's a matter of people talking without facts. You can enjoy driving a MT all you want. But don't talk about "poor performance" in a car you've never driven nor have you actually looked at its performance overall. And don't say that Car X with MT will be faster than with AT when the facts are simply the opposite.

 

[nerp]

i don't understand the 'i want it to accelerate hard in 8th gear (the 3rd overdrive) at 80 mph' crowd.

Not that I'd recommend flooring it at 80, but it's nice having the option if you have to. And if your transmission doesn't downshift at that point, it's broken.

 

[exdeath]

I see people driving the V6's, and they smiling ear to ear like they have supercharged V8s. Such fun cars to drive.

Lol no. Until they try to jockey for position against a real supercharged V8.