20,000 Cameras To Be Installed In UK Homes...

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Rockinacoustic

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2006
2,460
0
76
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Well, I wouldn't breakout out the 1984 comparisons just yet. This seems an alternative to just removing Children from home and sending them to Foster Care. Almost like a form of House Arrest that keeps families together. I'd wait to see the results of such a Program.

The end justifies the mean right?

What is this "End" you speak of? Exactly what is "Wrong" with this situation other than it being something mentioned in a Science Fiction book at one time?

So long as it keeps families together and children out of foster homes it's just right?

Are you as indifferent to this as you are wiretapping's and torture?

Why not? Do you think it's better to rip families apart than to perhaps fix a family so they can stay together?

If by "fix" you mean acting accordingly under conditioning.

Should we install 24 hour surveillance camera's in kitchens of the Obese? They be less likely to indulge themselves, so it's ok by your logic.
 

TruePaige

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2006
9,874
2
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
If Prisons didn't exist up to this point, how many here would object to the Government forcing Criminals into Buildings that they were not able to Freely leave/return at Will?

So you are equating us to..prisoners..hmm

Convincing but...No.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,823
6,368
126
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Well, I wouldn't breakout out the 1984 comparisons just yet. This seems an alternative to just removing Children from home and sending them to Foster Care. Almost like a form of House Arrest that keeps families together. I'd wait to see the results of such a Program.

The end justifies the mean right?

What is this "End" you speak of? Exactly what is "Wrong" with this situation other than it being something mentioned in a Science Fiction book at one time?

So long as it keeps families together and children out of foster homes it's just right?

Are you as indifferent to this as you are wiretapping's and torture?

Why not? Do you think it's better to rip families apart than to perhaps fix a family so they can stay together?

If by "fix" you mean acting accordingly under conditioning.

Should we install 24 hour surveillance camera's in kitchens of the Obese? They be less likely to indulge themselves, so it's ok by your logic.

So you oppose removing Children from Homes then?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,823
6,368
126
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Originally posted by: sandorski
If Prisons didn't exist up to this point, how many here would object to the Government forcing Criminals into Buildings that they were not able to Freely leave/return at Will?

So you are equating us to..prisoners..hmm

Convincing but...No.

Us? You have a Camera in your home because you're a bad parent?
 

Rockinacoustic

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2006
2,460
0
76
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Well, I wouldn't breakout out the 1984 comparisons just yet. This seems an alternative to just removing Children from home and sending them to Foster Care. Almost like a form of House Arrest that keeps families together. I'd wait to see the results of such a Program.

The end justifies the mean right?

What is this "End" you speak of? Exactly what is "Wrong" with this situation other than it being something mentioned in a Science Fiction book at one time?

So long as it keeps families together and children out of foster homes it's just right?

Are you as indifferent to this as you are wiretapping's and torture?

Why not? Do you think it's better to rip families apart than to perhaps fix a family so they can stay together?

If by "fix" you mean acting accordingly under conditioning.

Should we install 24 hour surveillance camera's in kitchens of the Obese? They be less likely to indulge themselves, so it's ok by your logic.

So you oppose removing Children from Homes then?

Not as much as you oppose answering my questions ;)
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Originally posted by: alchemize
Welcome to the loving arms of socialism.

Socialism not found. This is authoritarianism. State >> Personal Freedoms.

Originally posted by: SammyJr
Originally posted by: alchemize
Welcome to the loving arms of socialism.

Government ownership of an industry has to do with this how?

You're thinking of Totaltarianism and that would only fit if this program isn't voluntary and was being pushed on law abiding citizens.

You boys need to put away your 1955 encyclopedias. Socialism has redefined itself to go far beyond "industry ownership". It's like the right and left have taken all the crappy ideas from each side and decided to use them...

 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,823
6,368
126
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic


If by "fix" you mean acting accordingly under conditioning.

Should we install 24 hour surveillance camera's in kitchens of the Obese? They be less likely to indulge themselves, so it's ok by your logic.

So you oppose removing Children from Homes then?

Not as much as you oppose answering my questions ;)

I answered your good questions, ignored the nonsense questions.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,823
6,368
126
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Originally posted by: alchemize
Welcome to the loving arms of socialism.

Socialism not found. This is authoritarianism. State >> Personal Freedoms.

Originally posted by: SammyJr
Originally posted by: alchemize
Welcome to the loving arms of socialism.

Government ownership of an industry has to do with this how?

You're thinking of Totaltarianism and that would only fit if this program isn't voluntary and was being pushed on law abiding citizens.

You boys need to put away your 1955 encyclopedias. Socialism has redefined itself to go far beyond "industry ownership". It's like the right and left have taken all the crappy ideas from each side and decided to use them...


Speaking of 1984: Socialism has always been taking over 1 or 2 Companies! Millions will die under Socialism!!
 

fornax

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
6,866
0
76
The UK have lost their collective mind long time ago. Mind you, they voted for Blair twice, much as we voted for Bush twice - a fine pair of likely-minded criminals. The Labour party in the UK designed and has overseen the greatest erosion of personal and civil liberties in any developed country in the past two decades. Stalin and Ceausescu must be green with envy in their graves. Having relatives who live there, I feel very disturbed. The saddest thing is that the most likely next ruler's mindset (the Conservative party) is not very different from Labour's mindset, just a few more tax breaks for the rich.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Wow.....I'm stunned by such a thing. If the parents are that abusive, then take the kids away from them. Geez, is that harder to do? Having cameras just creates that hostile "I'm going to fuck you up if those cameras were not there" environment and can't be seen as really improving anything. Of course I see the logic is that "But those who will abuse will do it anyways; once they get mad enough, lose their control, and beat their child then we will have video evidence", but I don't like it at all. I'd honestly rather have a kid take a few hits and then take him away from the parent once you establish those bruises are from a beating than to say "Lets put cams and watch you guys constantly". We can't allow ourselves to go down such a path.

I do'nt like it one bit and have the same feelings as a lot of the guys here, but without the "socialism" nonsense. It is simply authoritarian. I'm glad however that many of us share the same feelings because if/when this idea creeps up in our country, we need to be ready to stand up and strike it down regardless if we are D, R, I or something else.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,286
147
106
Originally posted by: bctbct
No tin foil hat here, but this should be a wake up to all where the US could be 20 years from now.

Bu.. Bu.. If the rest of Europe is doing it we MUST be backwards for not doing it!
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Well, I wouldn't breakout out the 1984 comparisons just yet. This seems an alternative to just removing Children from home and sending them to Foster Care. Almost like a form of House Arrest that keeps families together. I'd wait to see the results of such a Program.

The end justifies the mean right?

What is this "End" you speak of? Exactly what is "Wrong" with this situation other than it being something mentioned in a Science Fiction book at one time?

So long as it keeps families together and children out of foster homes it's just right?

Are you as indifferent to this as you are wiretapping's and torture?

Why not? Do you think it's better to rip families apart than to perhaps fix a family so they can stay together?

Huh? This is one weird way to look at this logically. If these parents are so bad they require something like this the kids shouldnt be living with them. All a camera will do is capture the abuse when it shouldnt be allowed in the first place once the authorities know it is going on.

This is just an end around to place camera's in everybody's home in England. Once they establish it is for the kids they will move to every home with a child. Forget the due process, we are all criminals and need monitoring.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Originally posted by: alchemize
Welcome to the loving arms of socialism.

Socialism not found. This is authoritarianism. State >> Personal Freedoms.

Originally posted by: SammyJr
Originally posted by: alchemize
Welcome to the loving arms of socialism.

Government ownership of an industry has to do with this how?

You're thinking of Totaltarianism and that would only fit if this program isn't voluntary and was being pushed on law abiding citizens.

You boys need to put away your 1955 encyclopedias. Socialism has redefined itself to go far beyond "industry ownership". It's like the right and left have taken all the crappy ideas from each side and decided to use them...


Speaking of 1984: Socialism has always been taking over 1 or 2 Companies! Millions will die under Socialism!!
Read between the lines The entire financial system is being increasingly socialized.

 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,823
6,368
126
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: alchemize



You boys need to put away your 1955 encyclopedias. Socialism has redefined itself to go far beyond "industry ownership". It's like the right and left have taken all the crappy ideas from each side and decided to use them...


Speaking of 1984: Socialism has always been taking over 1 or 2 Companies! Millions will die under Socialism!!
Read between the lines The entire financial system is being increasingly socialized.

I don't "read between the lines", because it's usually just stupidity.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: alchemize



You boys need to put away your 1955 encyclopedias. Socialism has redefined itself to go far beyond "industry ownership". It's like the right and left have taken all the crappy ideas from each side and decided to use them...


Speaking of 1984: Socialism has always been taking over 1 or 2 Companies! Millions will die under Socialism!!
Read between the lines The entire financial system is being increasingly socialized.

I don't "read between the lines", because it's usually just stupidity.
Well, I guess I have no response to that.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,864
6,783
126
There are two issues here.

All criminal activity requires anonymity.

The capacity to overthrow a dictatorship requires anonymity.

Freedom from false charges by a dictatorship or otherwise requite full public access to the real facts.

The only solution is total information recording that is totally confidential and cannot be accessed except for defense.

We will have AI likely by 2029 if Moore's Law holds up and the flops estimated to be required are correct.

Perhaps we can ask the machines how they can insure this then.
 

SammyJr

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2008
1,708
0
0
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: SammyJr
Severely dysfunctional families.... read the entire article.

Putting cameras in their homes and having security patrols is going to end the dysfunction how?

Accountability. If the parents aren't living up to their most basic of duties, their kids will be taken away. This isn't for good parents or even mediocre parents. Its for the most neglectful.
 

SammyJr

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2008
1,708
0
0
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Well, I wouldn't breakout out the 1984 comparisons just yet. This seems an alternative to just removing Children from home and sending them to Foster Care. Almost like a form of House Arrest that keeps families together. I'd wait to see the results of such a Program.

The end justifies the mean right?

What is this "End" you speak of? Exactly what is "Wrong" with this situation other than it being something mentioned in a Science Fiction book at one time?

So long as it keeps families together and children out of foster homes it's just right?

Are you as indifferent to this as you are wiretapping's and torture?

Comparing known bad parents to suspected terrorists is hardly a fair comparison. The former are guilty, the latter are not.
 

SammyJr

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2008
1,708
0
0
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Dysfunctional families are the ones those in authority deem to be dysfunctional, don't upset those in authority and all will be well with you.

Er, I think general parenting practices - you know bathing, clothing, and feeding the kids are generally accepted practices and not the result of some authority.
 

SammyJr

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2008
1,708
0
0
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Well, I wouldn't breakout out the 1984 comparisons just yet. This seems an alternative to just removing Children from home and sending them to Foster Care. Almost like a form of House Arrest that keeps families together. I'd wait to see the results of such a Program.

The end justifies the mean right?

What is this "End" you speak of? Exactly what is "Wrong" with this situation other than it being something mentioned in a Science Fiction book at one time?

So long as it keeps families together and children out of foster homes it's just right?

Are you as indifferent to this as you are wiretapping's and torture?

Why not? Do you think it's better to rip families apart than to perhaps fix a family so they can stay together?

If by "fix" you mean acting accordingly under conditioning.

Should we install 24 hour surveillance camera's in kitchens of the Obese? They be less likely to indulge themselves, so it's ok by your logic.

Being obese isn't criminal. Neglecting your kids is.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: SammyJr
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: SammyJr
Severely dysfunctional families.... read the entire article.

Putting cameras in their homes and having security patrols is going to end the dysfunction how?

Accountability. If the parents aren't living up to their most basic of duties, their kids will be taken away. This isn't for good parents or even mediocre parents. Its for the most neglectful.

If the kids are at this point of neglect, they should be removed.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Originally posted by: SammyJr
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Well, I wouldn't breakout out the 1984 comparisons just yet. This seems an alternative to just removing Children from home and sending them to Foster Care. Almost like a form of House Arrest that keeps families together. I'd wait to see the results of such a Program.

The end justifies the mean right?

What is this "End" you speak of? Exactly what is "Wrong" with this situation other than it being something mentioned in a Science Fiction book at one time?

So long as it keeps families together and children out of foster homes it's just right?

Are you as indifferent to this as you are wiretapping's and torture?

Why not? Do you think it's better to rip families apart than to perhaps fix a family so they can stay together?

If by "fix" you mean acting accordingly under conditioning.

Should we install 24 hour surveillance camera's in kitchens of the Obese? They be less likely to indulge themselves, so it's ok by your logic.

Being obese isn't criminal. Neglecting your kids is.

So is smoking pot.

Therefore, anyone whom has been convicted of possession of marijuana ought to be monitored.

Think of the children.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
There are two issues here.

All criminal activity requires anonymity.

The capacity to overthrow a dictatorship requires anonymity.

Freedom from false charges by a dictatorship or otherwise requite full public access to the real facts.

The only solution is total information recording that is totally confidential and cannot be accessed except for defense.

We will have AI likely by 2029 if Moore's Law holds up and the flops estimated to be required are correct.

Perhaps we can ask the machines how they can insure this then.

The answer lies with the makers of the machines, but we have Constitutional protections. You would never see wiretaps without warrants for example. The system is foolproof. You can trust Big Brother.