19 Year Old Girl Shot Looking for Help

[werepossum]

At 5'4" 185 lbs she was not exactly a small woman, and she may have been wearing a hoodie, so in the dark he wouldn't know it's a woman. And if he thinks it's someone breaking in then he's rightfully gonna consider they might have a gun on them... how would he know she's unarmed?

Doesn't really matter because he's saying he fired on accident anyways, which will probably put him on the hook for negligent manslaughter.

5'-4" is pretty short; at 185 and with a bloody face my first thought would be "Jeez, the fat kid in the zombie costume is just now getting to my house for trick-or-treat."

He certainly didn't know if she was armed, but he chose to open the door and confront the burglar. I don't have a great problem with that - I think one should be able to use deadly force to protect one's stuff - but in this case she was not an imminent danger to him or his stuff. How can you open your door and then claim to be in danger because there's no door between you and the burglar? And she was on his porch, which presumably has a light. (He certainly managed to aim the shotgun straight at her anyway.) Bottom line, a gun owner has a responsibility to maintain control over his weapon.

I do have some sympathy for this man, who was minding his own business sleeping in the middle of the night when rudely awakened by someone trying to get into his house. I have even more sympathy for the teenager, who is dead for no good reason.

 

[Jaskalas]

5'-4" is pretty short; at 185 and with a bloody face my first thought would be "Jeez, the fat kid in the zombie costume is just now getting to my house for trick-or-treat."

He certainly didn't know if she was armed, but he chose to open the door and confront the burglar. I don't have a great problem with that - I think one should be able to use deadly force to protect one's stuff - but in this case she was not an imminent danger to him or his stuff. How can you open your door and then claim to be in danger because there's no door between you and the burglar? And she was on his porch, which presumably has a light. (He certainly managed to aim the shotgun straight at her anyway.) Bottom line, a gun owner has a responsibility to maintain control over his weapon.

I do have some sympathy for this man, who was minding his own business sleeping in the middle of the night when rudely awakened by someone trying to get into his house. I have even more sympathy for the teenager, who is dead for no good reason.

:thumbsup: Spot on.

 

[Soundmanred]

reported. this takes unacceptable to a new level

She was a threat to the lives of others, and she didn't seem too great at learning her lesson after the first few times. To me, THAT is unacceptable.
No sympathy here.

 

[Agent11]

5'-4" is pretty short; at 185 and with a bloody face my first thought would be "Jeez, the fat kid in the zombie costume is just now getting to my house for trick-or-treat."

He certainly didn't know if she was armed, but he chose to open the door and confront the burglar. I don't have a great problem with that - I think one should be able to use deadly force to protect one's stuff - but in this case she was not an imminent danger to him or his stuff. How can you open your door and then claim to be in danger because there's no door between you and the burglar? And she was on his porch, which presumably has a light. (He certainly managed to aim the shotgun straight at her anyway.) Bottom line, a gun owner has a responsibility to maintain control over his weapon.

I do have some sympathy for this man, who was minding his own business sleeping in the middle of the night when rudely awakened by someone trying to get into his house. I have even more sympathy for the teenager, who is dead for no good reason.

Unless new information comes to light that's pretty much how I feel as well.

 

[spidey07]

5'-4" is pretty short; at 185 and with a bloody face my first thought would be "Jeez, the fat kid in the zombie costume is just now getting to my house for trick-or-treat."

He certainly didn't know if she was armed, but he chose to open the door and confront the burglar. I don't have a great problem with that - I think one should be able to use deadly force to protect one's stuff - but in this case she was not an imminent danger to him or his stuff. How can you open your door and then claim to be in danger because there's no door between you and the burglar? And she was on his porch, which presumably has a light. (He certainly managed to aim the shotgun straight at her anyway.) Bottom line, a gun owner has a responsibility to maintain control over his weapon.

I do have some sympathy for this man, who was minding his own business sleeping in the middle of the night when rudely awakened by someone trying to get into his house. I have even more sympathy for the teenager, who is dead for no good reason.

You really need to read up on castle doctrine laws.

If the gobblin was trying to enter the dwelling at 3 in the morning then it's a good shoot.

Read the fucking laws.

No fear of life nor threat is necessary. If the gobblin is attempting to enter then fire away.

Dammit. Why can't you people read the law after its been posted multiple times!!!!!

This has nothing to do with how you feel!

 

[nehalem256]

I do have some sympathy for this man, who was minding his own business sleeping in the middle of the night when rudely awakened by someone trying to get into his house. I have even more sympathy for the teenager, who is dead for no good reason.

She died largely due to her own actions in committing multiple crimes.

She died because she didn't value her own life

 

[Soundmanred]

You're disgustingly correct.

I know your dog in this fight is a blind one, I get it.
You can try to deny it, but to you, you're her, and any injustice done to her is done to you.
Luckily for you, this is simply not the case.
Did she deserve to die? Of course not!
Did her decisions, judgement and actions take her down that path? They absolutely did! You dance with the devil and you end up dead. That's how life works.

I don't care who she was other than she was someone who willfully disregarded other people's lives and property. Somehow she got away with it for quite some time and it caught up to her.

 

[2timer]

Charged with 2nd degree murder.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/11...ces-details-of-renisha-mcbride-investigation/

They had no other choice except to do this.

Lesson to all white homeowners: If you shoot someone dead on your porch, and they aren't a robber, expect to have criminal charges pressed against you.

Time to think about not shooting unless you see them breaking in, or calling 911 first if they are still outside.

 

[werepossum]

You really need to read up on castle doctrine laws.

If the gobblin was trying to enter the dwelling at 3 in the morning then it's a good shoot.

Read the fucking laws.

No fear of life nor threat is necessary. If the gobblin is attempting to enter then fire away.

Dammit. Why can't you people read the law after its been posted multiple times!!!!!

This has nothing to do with how you feel!

I'm arguing morality, not law. That's a question for lawyers. Morally it's not acceptable to kill someone for trying to normally open your door (as opposed to trying to jimmy it or break it down) and morally it's not okay to point a gun at someone's face and carelessly mishandle it.

And why on earth are you calling her a "gobblin"?

She died largely due to her own actions in committing multiple crimes.

She died because she didn't value her own life

She died mainly because she was drunk and disoriented and because a sleepy man was careless. It should not be a crime to try to open the wrong door, for fuck's sake.

I'd bet my last dollar that even were he guaranteed not to ever be charged or sued, this man is wishing with all his heart he had not shot her.

 

[SheHateMe]

I just checked two major online news stations from Detroit and this is the picture they are all using

The pictures these shitheads are talking about are the photos from the album at her funeral. Her family and friends put a picture book of Ranisha together, the media have been showing some of these photos.

You can try to deny it, but to you, you're her, and any injustice done to her is done to you.

Wrong. Like I told Geo, don't assume things. To me, I am ME. That's it.

 

[werepossum]

They had no other choice except to do this.

Lesson to all white homeowners: If you shoot someone dead on your porch, and they aren't a robber, expect to have criminal charges pressed against you.

Time to think about not shooting unless you see them breaking in, or calling 911 first if they are still outside.

Everyone should know this, not just white homeowners. If you are not willing to take a chance without pointing a gun at someone, leave the door closed and stay inside. If they open a locked door and come in, then you can shoot them. Doesn't mean you'd necessarily be morally correct in doing so, but at least you'd have a reasonable argument.

I'm betting that a 54 year old black homeowner who shoots an unarmed drunk white 19 year old 5'-4" girl on his porch gets charged that night most of the time. For all that I generally despise the race pimps, there is a racial injustice industry because the law is not particularly friendly to black people, not in spite of it.

 

[Emos]

What the hell is a gobblin?

 

[spidey07]

I'm arguing morality, not law. That's a question for lawyers. Morally it's not acceptable to kill someone for trying to normally open your door (as opposed to trying to jimmy it or break it down) and morally it's not okay to point a gun at someone's face and carelessly mishandle it.

And why on earth are you calling her a "gobblin"?


She died mainly because she was drunk and disoriented and because a sleepy man was careless. It should not be a crime to try to open the wrong door, for fuck's sake.

I'd bet my last dollar that even were he guaranteed not to ever be charged or sued, this man is wishing with all his heart he had not shot her.

I say again.

You are buying the bullshit racist fucks story of "poor girl was just trying to find help and open doors"

Here's where my real world meets you:

You try to open my door to my house, you are getting dead. You're done.

Don't fucking try to break into anonther's home or break in. You won't get shot.

 

[werepossum]

:thumbsup: Spot on.

Unless new information comes to light that's pretty much how I feel as well.

Glad we all agree.

 

[spidey07]

What the hell is a gobblin?

A ghetto gobblin.

A gobblin is a highly sketchy creature capable of killing amd extreme violence at any moment. The gobblin is normally fucked up on drugs and or alcohol.

 

[werepossum]

What the hell is a gobblin?

My best guess is an ugly, dwarfish mythical Nordic creature with an Anthophila on its shoulder.

I say again.

You are buying the bullshit racist fucks story of "poor girl was just trying to find help and open doors"

Here's where my real world meets you:

You try to open my door to my house, you are getting dead. You're done.

Don't fucking try to break into anonther's home or break in. You won't get shot.

I don't think she was trying to get help. I believe that in her drunken and disoriented state she believed she had reached her home or that of a friend. Possibly even decided to just enter whatever house she happened to see and sleep it off, or any of the other stupid things Mr. Alcohol suggests to drunks. However, once again: It should not be a crime to try to open the wrong door, for fuck's sake.

Beyond that, what if it's a your preacher, a relative, a neighbor, a friend? If your neighbor is knocking on your door at 3AM because his elderly wife has fallen and he needs help getting her back in the bed, should you shoot him in the face? If your child's black friend is distraught and needing to talk to someone, should she die instead? Why not just set the lawn land mines at lights out?

If we shoot people dead because they tried our door knob or banged on our door at 3AM, we WILL lose our Second Amendment rights. And it will be our own damned fault.

 

[Geosurface]

Here's an interesting video on the case from OutFront on CNN tonight - it runs 7 minutes long.

Sunny Hostin is on there insisting the case involves race, when she doesn't even know that Ted was in a position to see Renisha's race.

The defense attorney guy they brought in came out much stronger than I expected, he's always very reasonable and correct, particularly on the Zimmerman thing he was. He said charges should not have been brought. He backed up Spidey quite a lot, actually.

Worth watching.

 

[spidey07]

My best guess is an ugly, dwarfish mythical Nordic creature with an Anthophila on its shoulder.


I don't think she was trying to get help. I believe that in her drunken and disoriented state she believed she had reached her home or that of a friend. Possibly even decided to just enter whatever house she happened to see and sleep it off, or any of the other stupid things Mr. Alcohol suggests to drunks. However, once again: It should not be a crime to try to open the wrong door, for fuck's sake.

Beyond that, what if it's a your preacher, a relative, a neighbor, a friend? If your neighbor is knocking on your door at 3AM because his elderly wife has fallen and he needs help getting her back in the bed, should you shoot him in the face? If your child's black friend is distraught and needing to talk to someone, should she die instead? Why not just set the lawn land mines at lights out?

If we shoot people dead because they tried our door knob or banged on our door at 3AM, we WILL lose our Second Amendment rights. And it will be our own damned fault.

My friends, wife and family, neighbors know not to do that lest they get shot.

My WIFE knows not to do that.

Don't ever do what this lady did. Ever. Lest you get dead.

Don't try to break into people's homes. Don't do it.

 

[Jaskalas]

I say again.

You are buying the bullshit racist fucks story of "poor girl was just trying to find help and open doors"

Here's where my real world meets you:

You try to open my door to my house, you are getting dead. You're done.

Don't fucking try to break into anonther's home or break in. You won't get shot.

You appear to be gleeful or celebrating the loss of life, to perhaps have no empathy for others. Seek a medical professional to discuss this further.

 

[EagleKeeper]

How much of that do we really know? Her cousin alluded to two, maybe three cars, but we don't absolutely know she had a habit of drinking and driving. We can surmise that, but we might well be wrong. Maybe she was just a really bad driver. Maybe she drove one with the 'Check engine' light on and destroyed an engine.

One car with a check engine light on - possible.
Three cars "tore up"; that screams damage and careless driver. Especially with such wording; as if the cousin was not surprised as to what happened w/ respect to the vehicle.

Given the level her BAC; if this was the first time she would have been retching all over the place. Her body would have rejected that amount that she had to have taken in. She was a "professional" - he body was used to high concentrations of booze.



Certainly from this incident she was a DUI fatality waiting to happen, and we have some inconclusive evidence that might be habit and pattern. However, evidently the shooter had two DUIs twenty years ago and never killed anyone. A DUI fatality waiting to happen is not necessarily a DUI fatality that WILL happen. Lots of people straighten up without killing anyone.

I agree that people can straighten up; her actions though did not put her at the edge of the cliff; it had her well over; she had no concerns about being loaded and driving. Most DUI will be in the 0.1-0.15 range; They are able to have some control of the vehicle although reflexes/analysis will be sluggish.

If digging was done; I would suspect that alcohol was involved in at least one other of her tear ups.


Anyone alive can turn her life around. No one dead can turn her life around. This kid did something very bad, with a reckless disregard for the safety of others. She MIGHT have had a habit and pattern of such behavior. It looks probable, but is by no means certain. But either way, lots of people are perfect assholes as teenagers but later become responsible adults. Usually without killing anyone.

Most of those end up killing themselves or someone else; she was already an adult and had no qualms about getting behind the wheel. She knew what she was doing and still did it. Then tried to evade responsibility for her actions (twice)

I have sympathy for her being dead, but absolutely none for her actions that caused it; it just happened sooner and at least did not involve someone else who could be innocent.

I have seen enough fatalities from DUIs to not extend an ounce of compassion to the driver; who at times has ended up in the morgue along with their victims.

Response in bold

 

[RampantAndroid]

You appear to be gleeful or celebrating the loss of life, to perhaps have no empathy for others. Seek a medical professional to discuss this further.

It's just spidey, he wants to kill people who look at him funny...

 

[tgferg67]

My friends, wife and family, neighbors know not to do that lest they get shot.

My WIFE knows not to do that.

Don't ever do what this lady did. Ever. Lest you get dead.

Don't try to break into people's homes. Don't do it.

So the police entering the wrong house with a no knock warrant should be dead too?

 

[Geosurface]

If I were Ted I'd be asking: "Can't we just pretend she died in the car wreck and I can go home? You can even have my shotgun."

 

[RampantAndroid]

So the police entering the wrong house with a no knock warrant should be dead too?

Police performing no knock warrants should be fair game if you're shooting to defend yourself. No knock warrants should be illegal.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I don't think she was trying to get help. I believe that in her drunken and disoriented state she believed she had reached her home or that of a friend. Possibly even decided to just enter whatever house she happened to see and sleep it off, or any of the other stupid things Mr. Alcohol suggests to drunks. However, once again: It should not be a crime to try to open the wrong door, for fuck's sake.

I do not agree that she was disoriented; she deliberately left the accident twice when people were trying to help her; she wanted to avoid the law.

She could have made it to any location that was open all night and asked for assistance.

She goes 6 blocks; past 30-40 houses and then decides that this is a house to enter? It sure would not look like her own place; she screams money (4 cars from Daddy in 3 years); that house is not money. Could it be similar to a friends; possible