19 Year Old Girl Shot Looking for Help

[spidey07]

I will always side with people who defend themselves, especially in their castle.

 

[2timer]

A dead body is just a homocide. It's not evidence of a crime.

And homicides can be criminal. That's why homicides are investigated by the DA office to determine if a crime was committed.

 

[LTC8K6]

Statement from victim is statement from victim, not evidence. BTW - that statement has been scrubbed by a lawyer. Laywer will put his spin on it. Family will put their spin on it.


One thing that remains constant who you side with is as predictable as sunrise.

He made a statement to the police. I doubt that was scrubbed too much by a lawyer. A lawyer would have told him not to say anything, I would think.

 

[Geosurface]

You actually think that the guy has so little concern for break-ins that he left his door unlocked but has enough concern for break-ins that he's ready to grab his shotgun when he hears noise downstairs. Most people will lock their door regardless of whether or not they live in an especially crime heavy area. It's just such an easy thing to do and people are used to doing it out of habit.

Apparently this guy had moved from a worse part of Detroit where he'd had at least two previous break ins or burglaries or something. That's what I heard, anyway.

I would agree with you that there is every reason to think he'd lock his door.

Then again, even someone who religiously locks their door can mistakenly leave it unlocked once in a while. I've done it.

Could this help explain why it was this house, of all the houses in those 4 blocks between the accident and where she got shot, which things ended up happening at?

Presumably almost every house had occupants at 3:40am.

So was it that she was literally knocking on every door, ringing every bell, and not a single person came out to see what was going on at any of those houses?

Or was this the first house she found with an unlocked door?

We just don't know.

 

[HomerJS]

I will always side with people who defend themselves, especially in their castle.

Except when they are being stalked.

BTW - I'll call you credible when you provide link siding with Marissa Alexander

 

[Geosurface]

Except when they are being stalked.

BTW - I'll call you credible when you provide link siding with Marissa Alexander

Trayvon wasn't being stalked, and wasn't defending himself.

Marissa Alexander has a mythos around her, too. She returned to a supposedly threatening situation with a gun when she could have left, and opened fire toward not only her ex but two kids as well.

They fled and called police. She did not call.

You should generally assume that the media narrative on any racially tinged shooting is BS, and proceed with that understanding when researching it.

 

[Exophase]

Apparently this guy had moved from a worse part of Detroit where he'd had at least two previous break ins or burglaries or something. That's what I heard, anyway.

I would agree with you that there is every reason to think he'd lock his door.

Then again, even someone who religiously locks their door can mistakenly leave it unlocked once in a while. I've done it.

Could this help explain why it was this house, of all the houses in those 4 blocks between the accident and where she got shot, which things ended up happening at?

Presumably almost every house had occupants at 3:40am.

So was it that she was literally knocking on every door, ringing every bell, and not a single person came out to see what was going on at any of those houses?

Or was this the first house she found with an unlocked door?

We just don't know.

If she was just trying to enter houses and this is the first one she found where the owner forgot to lock the door why was she not already in the house by the time the owner found her?

Or is the idea that she was already in the house? I think if that were the case the defense would have been "I found someone in my house and shot her", not "I thought someone was trying to break into my house and accidentally shot her." I think this obvious information (that the corpse was in the house) would have also been revealed already.

 

[nehalem256]

Except when they are being stalked.

BTW - I'll call you credible when you provide link siding with Marissa Alexander

She fired warning shots. My uncle learned at his CCL class that you don't fire warning shots, because firing warning shots indicates you don't really fear for your life.

http://www.americanprogress.org/iss...01/76133/marissa-alexander-stands-her-ground/

Specifically, Alexander testified that within days of giving birth to their son, her then-estranged husband, Rico Gray Sr., attacked her in the bathroom of their home. Gray was under a court’s restraining order to stay away from Alexander. She fought him off and eventually escaped to a garage where she grabbed a gun. She said she fired a shot into the ceiling to scare him off, arguing that “it was the lesser of two evils” compared to shooting and killing him.

Does firing through a ceiling at someone seems like self defense?

 

[2timer]

Apparently this guy had moved from a worse part of Detroit where he'd had at least two previous break ins or burglaries or something. That's what I heard, anyway.

I'm sincerely curious, do you live in Dearborn and hear these things from people in the community, or where exactly do you keep "hearing" these things from? Who is your source - it's not the Chimpout.com message boards, is it?

 

[umbrella39]

Speaking of open doors... who let this fuck back in?

 

[umbrella39]

I'm sincerely curious, do you live in Dearborn and hear these things from people in the community, or where exactly do you keep "hearing" these things from? Who is your source - it's not the Chimpout.com message boards, is it?

Indeed. Hearing voices from the rat in his back pocket again one can only assume. Again, this is not Detroit. It is a nice neighborhood in a nice wooded area. A double wide laned avenue with decent homes with little to no crime. Paranoia is no excuse if a crime has been committed.

https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF...ive&ei=4pGCUv_lNZOusASfnIDwDA&ved=0CCwQxB0wAA

 

[Geosurface]

I'm sincerely curious, do you live in Dearborn and hear these things from people in the community, or where exactly do you keep "hearing" these things from? Who is your source - it's not the Chimpout.com message boards, is it?

I read it on an article on one of the local news stations, or possibly a national news site, like CBS or something, where they were interviewing neighbors about the man who'd shot her.

They were saying that he was a nice man who hadn't caused any problems, and a neighbor said the thing about him having previous break ins when he lived in Detroit proper.

 

[2timer]

I read it on an article on one of the local news stations, or possibly a national news site, like CBS or something, where they were interviewing neighbors about the man who'd shot her.

They were saying that he was a nice man who hadn't caused any problems, and a neighbor said the thing about him having previous break ins when he lived in Detroit proper.

OK, I got it now. I was just wondering, but if you're going to make those claims, you know, it would be nice if you had a source on it.

 

[LTC8K6]

Indeed. Hearing voices from the rat in his back pocket again one can only assume. Again, this is not Detroit. It is a nice neighborhood in a nice wooded area. A double wide laned avenue with decent homes with little to no crime. Paranoia is no excuse if a crime has been committed.

https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF...ive&ei=4pGCUv_lNZOusASfnIDwDA&ved=0CCwQxB0wAA

It is right on the border of Dearborn Heights and Detroit. IIRC, the car crash was in Detroit, and she was shot in Dearborn Heights. I believe that is what a Dearborn Heights cop said.

This happened near the southern end of River Rouge Park on the West side of this map. You can even see that a bit of Detroit is West of the park and farther west than the East border of Dearborn Heights. This is why you keep hearing both cities named. They are nearly intertwined in the area.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MDOT_Detroit7_421326_7.pdf

You can see the Southern end of the park in the map of the address you posted.

 

[Geosurface]

OK, I got it now. I was just wondering, but if you're going to make those claims, you know, it would be nice if you had a source on it.

Well you can rest assured I don't just make shit up.

I'm looking for the link, but I've looked at a lot of articles about this case at this point, probably 10, and I'm having trouble finding it again.

Feel free to help me try to locate it.

 

[2timer]

Well you can rest assured I don't just make shit up.

I'm looking for the link, but I've looked at a lot of articles about this case at this point, probably 10, and I'm having trouble finding it again.

Feel free to help me try to locate it.

I don't think you made it up, but words can be taken out of context at times. It happens on both sides.

And good luck finding the quote, I've lost many a crucial quote from not noting it down after I read it

 

[bshole]

I don't want to sound like a perv or anything but if a dazed and confused 19 year old girl was trying to break into my house in the middle of night, the absolute last thing on my mind would be killing her. Just saying....

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I suspect the homeowner had no clue whether the person trying to get in his house was a man or woman when he shot.

 

[Geosurface]

I suspect the homeowner had no clue whether the person trying to get in his house was a man or woman when he shot.

I'd wager he didn't know her race, either.

 

[ElFenix]

I suspect the homeowner had no clue whether the person trying to get in his house was a man or woman when he shot.

do we have any evidence she was trying to get in his house?

 

[spidey07]

do we have any evidence she was trying to get in his house?

Yes. Statements from the victim to police indicating such.

 

[Geosurface]

do we have any evidence she was trying to get in his house?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-help/3473711/

"I know this may ring hollow unless you knew this man, but this is really weighing on him," Bloomfield Hills criminal defense attorney Cheryl Carpenter said. "He realizes the extent of this tragedy. Right now, he's a monster in the eyes of the public. I can't wait to share who he really is."

Carpenter said the homeowner — whom she described as 54, white and living alone — voluntarily went to the Dearborn Heights police station for questioning after the shooting.
"He was sleeping and he was awakened between 3:30 and 4:30 a.m. by sounds of a person trying to come into his home," said Carpenter, calling the shooting "a tragedy for everybody involved."

 

[MomentsofSanity]

do we have any evidence she was trying to get in his house?

No. The only statements from the homeowner that are public state he thought someone was trying to break in. No mention of what actions specifically made him believe that fact.

 

[werepossum]

I don't want to sound like a perv or anything but if a dazed and confused 19 year old girl was trying to break into my house in the middle of night, the absolute last thing on my mind would be killing her. Just saying....

LOL "Your house? Why, yes it is. Come on in, honey, it's time for bed."

She was not in his house, so we can assume she did not open the door. We can also assume she did something - banging on the door, yelling, trying to fit her key to open the door - that attracted the homeowner's attention and made him get his shotgun, come downstairs, and open the door. As she was not inside the house, either she or both of them then backed up, widening the distance between them. (It's also possible that she had left the door and came toward it when he opened it, thinking she was being let into her home or that of a friend. It's even possible that she was not originally on his porch but somehow making noise that woke him up, then she approached the porch once he opened the door.) At that point either he put too much pressure on the trigger, or bumped into something while backing up and reflexively pulled the trigger, or intentionally shot her and then went "Oh crap, it's a young woman, I'd better claim it was an accident." Obviously I can have no opinion on exactly what happened, but clearly a young woman was shot who should not have been shot. There are some mitigating circumstances - we don't yet know to what degree - but surely nothing that changes that fundamental dynamic. Either the homeowner failed to safely handle his firearm and accidentally killed a young woman through negligence, or the homeowner intentionally killed a young woman who a reasonable person would not judge a threat to life and limb.

Time was the reaction to finding a bloody person on your porch was to exclaim "Oh my goodness, you're hurt; come in and let me help you until the ambulance gets here." I fully realize that home invasions have changed this dynamic, and if one feels he must call the cops and huddle inside with his shotgun, I have absolutely no problem with that. However, a reaction of "Oh my goodness, you're hurt; let me open the door and point my shotgun at your face, finger on the trigger, just in case this is a trick" is not acceptable. If nothing else, it's rude. Just ask anyone in the South.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

do we have any evidence she was trying to get in his house?

According to the home owner's lawyer this is what was occurring. Due to fact the prosecuters haven't charged the homeowner there has to be something that's causing them to request more information. Michigan's law is quite clear that a home owner can legally shoot someone that's attempting to enter/has enter the home.