...

[Chode Messiah]

Zebo is right. The Pentium D is a piece of crap that wastes power and is totally owned by a 3500+. Any 5XX will own it, and those suck. I'll stick with AMD. X2 POWER!!!!

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Only a Fanboy would have started a thread like this. All this thread was going to do is antagonize and start flame wars.

Wish the mods would lock this thread.

Only an Intel fanboy would respond like this. Read the thread. Facts are facts, and the 820 is cheap crap.

 

[Chode Messiah]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Only a Fanboy would have started a thread like this. All this thread was going to do is antagonize and start flame wars.

Wish the mods would lock this thread.

Only an Intel fanboy would respond like this. Read the thread. Facts are facts, and the 820 is cheap crap.

indeed

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Only a Fanboy would have started a thread like this. All this thread was going to do is antagonize and start flame wars.

Wish the mods would lock this thread.

Only an Intel fanboy would respond like this. Read the thread. Facts are facts, and the 820 is cheap crap.

LOL. Actually, I've always had AMD before my last rig. And I'm actually going to sell this off and get an A64 X2.

No, I'm just sick of folks bashing and antagonizing on either side. Heck, check this thread out. Who am I a fanboy for in this one?
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=389085

Read the thread. If you've read it, you'd know that I've already posted in it. There have been a bunch of threads already and a tons of reviews.

Like I've mentioned before, this forum really needs to split the folders into separate camps. Check any other forum that is set-up separate and you don't see the flame wars that are here.

If someone posts for help on their Intel system here, someone is always bashing them for having it, instead of helping.

Hey, no problem being on one side, but there's no need to be childish and call one or the other crap.

Like I've already asked, Mods please lock this thread.

 

[Capt Caveman]

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Chode Messiah

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Only a Fanboy would have started a thread like this. All this thread was going to do is antagonize and start flame wars.

Wish the mods would lock this thread.

Only an Intel fanboy would respond like this. Read the thread. Facts are facts, and the 820 is cheap crap.

indeed

Another one. LOL. Another useful post
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=389085

 

[Chode Messiah]

The facts are where??

 

[Sentential]

Mainly what I find oh so humerous is how they ploy high end chips to claim that the whole brand is better. Lets see the comparisons in encoding on the things you will actually be able to afford.

AMD can have its moment in the sun, frankly they need it to survive financially. However in a few months when Presler arrives things will change. Hopefully Intel will have its ramping issue under-control. Then we will see comparisons of a 2.8ghz X2 vs a high 4ghz Presler

 

[Chode Messiah]

nice rig

 

[Aenslead]

The message is clear: Intel has failed!! (I HAD to do that some time)

But seriosuly: how hard is it to accept that, indeed, X2 is FAR, VASTLY superior to any offer Intel has? Just accept it. We AMD'ers love to say it, and the rest of the none AMD'ers should... well... uhm... I don't really care. X2 is as good as it gets.

 

[anandtechrocks]

You guys are ridiculous, think about what you really arguing about? a computer processor? is all this drama and whatnot really worth a piece of silicon?

 

[dmens]

Originally posted by: anandtechrocks
You guys are ridiculous, think about what you really arguing about? a computer processor? is all this drama and whatnot really worth a piece of silicon?

:thumbsup: for people with no association with the field, y'all get waaaay too emotionally attached.

 

[Sentential]

Originally posted by: Aenslead
The message is clear: Intel has failed!! (I HAD to do that some time)

But seriosuly: how hard is it to accept that, indeed, X2 is FAR, VASTLY superior to any offer Intel has? Just accept it. We AMD'ers love to say it, and the rest of the none AMD'ers should... well... uhm... I don't really care. X2 is as good as it gets.

Ok, thats all well and good, but are you buying one? No. For that rite X2 has failed. Its not good enough to convince people to pay $500 for it. The technology is better, far better, but they arent pricing them to sell.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Sentential

Originally posted by: Aenslead
The message is clear: Intel has failed!! (I HAD to do that some time)

But seriosuly: how hard is it to accept that, indeed, X2 is FAR, VASTLY superior to any offer Intel has? Just accept it. We AMD'ers love to say it, and the rest of the none AMD'ers should... well... uhm... I don't really care. X2 is as good as it gets.

Ok, thats all well and good, but are you buying one? No. For that rite X2 has failed. Its not good enough to convince people to pay $500 for it. The technology is better, far better, but they arent pricing them to sell.

Your last statement shows why you are a retard and should stop talking for the Intel majority...

Dual cores are to succeed all cpus in everything except extreme gaming as AMD has stated....OK??? So how can a 500 dollar chip that destroys the FX55 (700-800 dollar chip), the 4000+ at 400-500+ not be worth it??? Is there a brain in there somewhere???

Now if you are trying to make a rationale cause the new Intel chip is less then half the X2 though the X2 does not beat it by a 100%, then once again your ignorance is overflowing....

Look at current chips and tell me when the fvck doe perofrmance ever equate to pricing in a product series?? Huh?? How much does that 660 cost?? then figure the 670....You have a 6% boost in speed and usually tad less in reality yet the price is waaayyyy higher then 6%...

You pay for what you get and a price premium for the (like zebo said) unprecedented performance gap is worth it. It is worth it for those who likely are really the ones who will use multithreaded apps and highly multitasked environment. I will admit HT does great in Multitasking now so why would anyone need to upgrade for 80-90% of users?? they wont. And at an anemmic 2.8ghz core speed they can have performance levels that were not good enough for top speeds 2-3 years ago....


call me an AM fanboy all you want but you INtel boys have some of the stupidest arguments and lamest comments. I am embarassed I may have stood along side of you about 6 months ago...


PS (For the mildly slow Intel fans)...

AMD 3000+ (1.8ghz)= ~140
AMD 3500+ (2.2ghz)= ~270 (22.2% faster / 93% higher priced) 4.5 to 1
AMD 3800+ (2.4ghz)= ~370 (33.3% faster / 164% higher priced) 5 to 1

Intel 630 (3.0ghz)= ~210
Intel 640 (3.2ghz)= ~280 (7% faster / 33% higher priced) 5 to 1
Intel 650 (3.4ghz)= ~410 (13% faster / 95% higher priced) 7 to 1
Intel 660 (3.6ghz)= ~620 (20% faster / 195% higher priced) 10 to 1
Intel 670 (3.8ghz)= ~1010 (27% faster / 381% higher priced) 14 to 1

Only the perpetuately stupid can't figure this one out....Look at how the iNtel line is far out of line to price performance.....

The fact is for a 30-60% speed increase it appears it is quite common for someone to pay 150+% higher...That is just looking at AMD cause Intel says they could charge 400% for it.....If you look at performance of the 820 versus the 840 price you will see this is still that exaggerated.

This pricing scheme by AMD is actually right on line to actually the best price performance we can currently see....Excluding gamers where AMD (not Intel) has made a very clear distinction the FX is still the extreme gaming line....

So Sentential go back to that forum ppl actually respect your opinion, cause you are a bit below average here IMO....

 

[dmens]

If you look at sales volumes for premium products compared to lower end products, you'd know that the X2, the P4D EE and the expensive single cores are all niche products and don't generate a lot of revenue. Their binsplit percentages just aren't high enough to guarantee volume, so intel and AMD turn them into "premium" products and charge a fortune.

AMD priced itself out of the mainstream market with the X2. Sure, they'll have nice margins, but so will the intel 820, and I'll bet the 820 will far outsell the X2 simply because of pricing.

most buyers have a priceline they will not cross.... people who don't care about diminishing returns are usually gamers with deep pockets (theirs or someone else's) that make up a very small minority of the market.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: dmens
If you look at sales volumes for premium products compared to lower end products, you'd know that the X2, the P4D EE and the expensive single cores are all niche products and don't generate a lot of revenue. Their binsplit percentages just aren't high enough to guarantee volume, so intel and AMD turn them into "premium" products and charge a fortune.

AMD priced itself out of the mainstream market with the X2. Sure, they'll have nice margins, but so will the intel 820, and I'll bet the 820 will outsell the X2 simply because of pricing.

most buyers have a priceline they will not cross.... people who don't care about diminishing returns are usually gamers with deep pockets (theirs or someone else's) that make up a very small minority of the market.

That's true and unfortunate. I hear people whinning about $2.50 a gallon gas when in reality it's as cheap as the 1960's when adjusted for inflation. Meh so people will continue to buy garbage and whine dispite favorable price/performance charachteristics of X2's.. psychology is strange stuff.

Then I say buy a 1.8 duron FOR $40. nothing on this planet can come close to matching it's performance for the price. I clocked one to 2250Mhz on defaults volts and it was as fast in the benchmarks as a Athlon XP 3000, or a 2.6 Northwood.. and about a 2.8 presscot.

AMD priced itself out of the mainstream market with the X2. Sure, they'll have nice margins, but so will the intel 820, and I'll bet the 820 will outsell the X2 simply because of pricing.

I want to see what the motherboads cost first. right now X2 is a no brainer with $250 intel mobos and $100 X2's mobos ..eating in to that supposed savings of buying an 820

 

[dmens]

but it's not strange at all. the cpu market breaks down into segments quite similar to many other consumer products... a model thats been around for many years.

 

[Sentential]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: Sentential

Originally posted by: Aenslead
The message is clear: Intel has failed!! (I HAD to do that some time)

But seriosuly: how hard is it to accept that, indeed, X2 is FAR, VASTLY superior to any offer Intel has? Just accept it. We AMD'ers love to say it, and the rest of the none AMD'ers should... well... uhm... I don't really care. X2 is as good as it gets.

Ok, thats all well and good, but are you buying one? No. For that rite X2 has failed. Its not good enough to convince people to pay $500 for it. The technology is better, far better, but they arent pricing them to sell.

Your last statement shows why you are a retard and should stop talking for the Intel majority...

Dual cores are to succeed all cpus in everything except extreme gaming as AMD has stated....OK??? So how can a 500 dollar chip that destroys the FX55 (700-800 dollar chip), the 4000+ at 400-500+ not be worth it??? Is there a brain in there somewhere???

Now if you are trying to make a rationale cause the new Intel chip is less then half the X2 though the X2 does not beat it by a 100%, then once again your ignorance is overflowing....

Look at current chips and tell me when the fvck doe perofrmance ever equate to pricing in a product series?? Huh?? How much does that 660 cost?? then figure the 670....You have a 6% boost in speed and usually tad less in reality yet the price is waaayyyy higher then 6%...

You pay for what you get and a price premium for the (like zebo said) unprecedented performance gap is worth it. It is worth it for those who likely are really the ones who will use multithreaded apps and highly multitasked environment. I will admit HT does great in Multitasking now so why would anyone need to upgrade for 80-90% of users?? they wont. And at an anemmic 2.8ghz core speed they can have performance levels that were not good enough for top speeds 2-3 years ago....


call me an AM fanboy all you want but you INtel boys have some of the stupidest arguments and lamest comments. I am embarassed I may have stood along side of you about 6 months ago...


PS (For the mildly slow Intel fans)...

AMD 3000+ (1.8ghz)= ~140
AMD 3500+ (2.2ghz)= ~270 (22.2% faster / 93% higher priced) 4.5 to 1
AMD 3800+ (2.4ghz)= ~370 (33.3% faster / 164% higher priced) 5 to 1

Intel 630 (3.0ghz)= ~210
Intel 640 (3.2ghz)= ~280 (7% faster / 33% higher priced) 5 to 1
Intel 650 (3.4ghz)= ~410 (13% faster / 95% higher priced) 7 to 1
Intel 660 (3.6ghz)= ~620 (20% faster / 195% higher priced) 10 to 1
Intel 670 (3.8ghz)= ~1010 (27% faster / 381% higher priced) 14 to 1

Only the perpetuately stupid can't figure this one out....Look at how the iNtel line is far out of line to price performance.....

The fact is for a 30-60% speed increase it appears it is quite common for someone to pay 150+% higher...That is just looking at AMD cause Intel says they could charge 400% for it.....If you look at performance of the 820 versus the 840 price you will see this is still that exaggerated.

This pricing scheme by AMD is actually right on line to actually the best price performance we can currently see....Excluding gamers where AMD (not Intel) has made a very clear distinction the FX is still the extreme gaming line....

So Sentential go back to that forum ppl actually respect your opinion, cause you are a bit below average here IMO....

Fact of the matter is I am being civil. The only person here who is acting like a child is you.

First and formost there I no way I'd pay $700 for any CPU. I bought this 660 for $300, nuff said. Second why are you comparing ghz speed? Intel abondoned that. The 6xx series is designed and priced to be one step above older 5xx. The 640's competitor is the 3500+.

While that makes the price/peformance even worse, everything is reletive. You can only base a product's worth on what you can get ahold of it for.

In addition where the hell have I said that the 840EE was better than a 4800+ X2 in peformance figures? Not once. A64s are better in pure games and the X2s are better in everything. The only reason why you claim that I have said such is because you are too ignorant to read what I have actually said.

Why are you so adamantally defending something when you have no associations with this company? I sure as hell am not, not like you are. I simply state the facts and nothing more. I NEVER tell people what they should buy.

Athlon X2 has failed because it has become clear that AMD doesnt have the yeilds to produce them at the rate Intel can and will. Nothing more than that. If AMD were able to price them in line with the Pentium Ds I would have alot more respect for them.

All too often do I see people like you base an opinion on a product without examining what people are actually going to buy. For the right price you can make anything better than something else.

For single core price/peformance there is no question that AMD has the advantage. For dual it is Intel.

As I have said before many-a-time. Put up or shut up. Compare what you will be able to afford, not the things you cannot. Unless you are buying an X2 there is no need to claim that AMD has the superority. Superority does not come in benchmarks, it comes in sales. It doesnt matter how good something is if people arent willing to buy it. This is AMD's key problem from day one.

Unless people feel that a $500 warrents the peformance level, AMD has failed. Plain and simple. It is THEIR job to prove this. So far they have done a very bad job of this. Ill believe in X2 once I see them below $350 and no sooner. Until this point is reached AMD is no better than ATi. High peformance, high priced, vaporware crap. Lets see AMD ship in volumes at a reasonable price. Clearly they do not plan on doing such for fear of hurting their single-core sales

I am not sure why you insist on propagating such fanboyish garbage. Next time read what people say and not what you think they are.

 

[Duvie]

LOL...Sentential...

I knew you were not smart enough to comprehend what I was saying...I wont even waste the time laying it out for you AGAIN!!!....

One thing though...Quit saying what the fvck I am going to buy or what I can afford...I made 100k last year I can certainly afford a 500 dollar cpu. especially when I dont have to buy, ram, new mobo, or a new power supply. I am set now you little b^tch. Unlike you would be!!! hahahahahahaha.....PLus I have already repeatedly stated to you I do plan on buying one (even at the 530-580 range)....


To be continued in the next thread after another one of your stupid comments....which probably will be the next time you post....

 

[dmens]

Originally posted by: Duvie
I made 100k last year I can certainly afford a 500 dollar cpu.

your point being? most consumers are not willing to spend much more than $500 on an entire setup.

the funny thing is, from the looks of it AMD's entire X2 line is targeted specifically at people in your "segment"... should be a hot seller. LOL.

 

[Insomniak]

Let me make it easy for everyone to comprehend:

If you disagree with Zebo and/or Duvie, you will get roasted. I don't mean that in the sense that you will get flamed - I mean those two will literally burn you to the dirt, and then do a little happy-dance on your crispy coating.

But hey - dig your own hole if you want - I know better.

 

[Markfw]

Well, I made the same, but if I had half the income, and wanted a duallie, I would put out the $500 in a heartbeat....Give it up guys.....

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: Duvie
I made 100k last year I can certainly afford a 500 dollar cpu.

your point being? most consumers are not willing to spend much more than $500 on an entire setup.

the funny thing is, from the looks of it AMD's entire X2 line is targeted specifically at people in your "segment"... should be a hot seller. LOL.

My point being I can afford it...that is it...Sh^ttalker likes to put words in ppls mouths and I was just saying A) I plan on buying one B) I can afford it.....

most consumers are not willing to spend much more than $500 on an entire setup.

Then I guess they wont be buying an 820 D either, huh??? The fact of the matter is that anyone buying dual core likely is not the norm. The question will be who is this user??? I think they are still more power users and thus wont shy away from 500 dollar cpus when the performance delta is soooo huge....I think you INtel ppl keep brushing intel chipset cost under the rug as well...most power users if they cannot find a cheaper 945 chipset is going to have to go with the 955 solutions which are consistently on the net as 230+ dollars...now the next question is are you going to place 1gb of 667DDR2 like in the reviews or get the cheapest slowest stuff and do even worse then the reviews...If you go with the first route there will be a premium over the DDR X2 users would have to get....

So as I mention a multitude of times...

CPU = 240
955 chipset (unless you can show me a 945 chipset yet) = 230
1gb of 667ddr2 (160 min.)

total = 630

Then what do you think you will need for a standard power supply for something that under load chews up 251 watts power under load (+41% over 4200+ X2)


Now figure a large amount of ppl here that will go X2 have already for sometime have had sckt 939 in anticipation of X2 support...for them they will only have to buy the chip....Dont you think that translate into a nice selling point for AMD and AMD's pricing?? They know your current ram, mobo, and likely power supply are suffiicient...This is simply an CPU upgrade...NOt your beloved Intel cpu....

Then if many have had any penitum 4 (non DDR2) or AMD64 setup will likely just need a sckt 939 board which are far more ample, mature and reasonably priced form low 100's to 175s for fully loaded SLI deluxe boards.


Other then the Dell deal where they only give you 512mb of ram (cheaper low grade speed stuff) for 1124 dollars I dont see where this is such a great saver...especially when you figure large performance gap of 30-60% versus X2 4200+ and single core performance that is on the bottom of performance of currently produced (non celeron) chips and equal to chips that could be bought 2-3 years ago....

Ofcourse you wont see it....The fact sand the number dont lie...You can spin them as you see fit but that is what we currently have to deal with....

 

[Sentential]

Originally posted by: Duvie
One thing though...Quit saying what the fvck I am going to buy or what I can afford...I made 100k last year I can certainly afford a 500 dollar cpu.

For an adult you certinaly sound like you're 15. Just because you can get one doesnt mean everyone will.

Go crawl back under the rock you came from and get a life.

 

[dmens]

haha, d*pshit. nice touch. well, s***-for-brains, the whole point of P4D pricing is to introduce dual core as a mainstream solution. Considering how 945/955 just got released, naturally they'd be more expensive.... the prices will drop soon to more normal levels. oh, those boards already have a lot of crap integrated so you don't have to buy seperate components.

for people already using AMD64 the upgrade path is obvious... but for people who want a dual system for a reasonable price, well, the choice is obvious. and those consumers, well, they dont care if they get slower RAM from dell either.

you're right, numbers don't lie and at the end of Q4 05 we'll see the volume and revenue numbers. maybe then you'll realize not everyone is a powerwhore like you.