15 year old shot and killed

[Fraggable]

About time one of these cases ended right.

If you pull a gun on someone for no reason...

You know I think it's just beyond my mental faculties why some people would be mad at the guy. I'd have done the same thing in a heartbeat. Who cares what kind of situation the kid had been raised in, he's pointing a gun at me. It's me or him, and the turd is pulling a gun on me for sitting on my porch.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Special K
Question for the gun experts here - if you are concealed-carrying your gun and a robber pulls a gun on you, would you even have enough time to draw your own weapon and fire a shot without the robber shooting you first, assuming the robber's gun was loaded and he actually intended to use it?

It's not to hard to pull out a weapon on someone who is asking you to dig into your pocket in the first place, especially someone who is nervous, wants to get it over with and make a quick exit, and expects you to comply.

I pull out my wallet from my back pocket, along with the 3.5" knife I keep in the same pocket, and in one motion drop or toss the wallet at him while flicking open the knife concealed by the wallet, grabbing the gun and pointing the muzzle away from me to the outside of the engagement zone (don't really care if my hand gets burned or pinched at this point as long as the bullets don't hit me). I simultaneously slash across the inside front of his armpit/shoulder with all my might so as to sever the pectoral groups and it's connections to that shoulder to render that arm useless in contracting to his body or resisting as I reaffirm my grip on his weapon. This all takes less than 1 second to execute at the time he is focused on the wallet and caught completely by surprise.

It would seriously surprise me if the shock alone at that point didn't immediately cause him to release his grip. But if not, I retrieve my USP .40 and put two in his chest or under his jaw, and depending on my control of the situation, possibly feel generous enough give him a few seconds to decide his fate.

The fact that my wallet is empty and I don't carry cash is irrelevant. I will defend myself from threat of deadly force.

ps: I practice with my knife and hand to hand more than I practice with my firearms, as simply possessing a firearm in and of itself is not a guarantee of the ability to defend oneself and it also creates a false sense of security for someone not accustomed to face to face engagements. The above tactic has been rehearsed countless times and literally happens in less than a second, including follow up stabs with the blade held horizontally.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Special K
Question for the gun experts here - if you are concealed-carrying your gun and a robber pulls a gun on you, would you even have enough time to draw your own weapon and fire a shot without the robber shooting you first, assuming the robber's gun was loaded and he actually intended to use it?

I pull out my wallet from my back pocket, along with the 3.5" knife I keep in the same pocket, and in one motion drop or toss the wallet at him while flicking open the knife concealed by the wallet, grabbing the gun and pointing the muzzle away from me to the outside of the engagement zone (don't really care if my hand gets burned or pinched at this point as long as the bullets don't hit me). I simultaneously slash across the inside front of his armpit/shoulder with all my might so as to sever the pectoral groups and it's connections to that shoulder to render that arm useless in contracting to his body or resisting as I reaffirm my grip on his weapon. This all takes less than 1 second to execute at the time he is focused on the wallet and caught completely by surprise.

I would seriously surprise me if the shock alone at that point didn't immediately cause him to release his grip. But if not, I retrieve my USP .40 and put two in his chest or under his jaw, and depending on my control of the situation, possibly feel generous enough give him a few seconds to decide his fate.

The fact that my wallet is empty and I don't carry cash is irrelevant. I will defend myself from threat of deadly force.

Is your real name Dwight Schrute?

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Special K
Question for the gun experts here - if you are concealed-carrying your gun and a robber pulls a gun on you, would you even have enough time to draw your own weapon and fire a shot without the robber shooting you first, assuming the robber's gun was loaded and he actually intended to use it?

I pull out my wallet from my back pocket, along with the 3.5" knife I keep in the same pocket, and in one motion drop or toss the wallet at him while flicking open the knife concealed by the wallet, grabbing the gun and pointing the muzzle away from me to the outside of the engagement zone (don't really care if my hand gets burned or pinched at this point as long as the bullets don't hit me). I simultaneously slash across the inside front of his armpit/shoulder with all my might so as to sever the pectoral groups and it's connections to that shoulder to render that arm useless in contracting to his body or resisting as I reaffirm my grip on his weapon. This all takes less than 1 second to execute at the time he is focused on the wallet and caught completely by surprise.

I would seriously surprise me if the shock alone at that point didn't immediately cause him to release his grip. But if not, I retrieve my USP .40 and put two in his chest or under his jaw, and depending on my control of the situation, possibly feel generous enough give him a few seconds to decide his fate.

The fact that my wallet is empty and I don't carry cash is irrelevant. I will defend myself from threat of deadly force.

Is your real name Dwight Schrute?

:laugh:

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: exdeath
close-quarters gun disarm with knife

You should be going for the upward stab through the throat right off the bat - don't even give him time to drop the gun.

- M4H

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: exdeath
close-quarters gun disarm with knife

You should be going for the upward stab through the throat right off the bat - don't even give him time to drop the gun.

- M4H

My strategy here is to immobilize his arm immediately in order to assure that my control of his weapon is not compromised, esp. if there is a strength advantage against me. A slash to the neck would allow that person to retain the capability to immediately react to their weapon being grabbed by pulling his arm back towards his body in a defensive posture while struggling for control of his weapon with full strength. A person hopped up on adrenaline can function at full strength until they are incapacitated by blood loss even with a fatal neck wound.

Hold your arm out to your side and pull it in towards your body while holding something like a wall. Feel/pinch the front inside portion of your arm pit and feel what is under tension there. Not much there for a 3.5" serrated blade to work with is there

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: exdeath
close-quarters gun disarm with knife

You should be going for the upward stab through the throat right off the bat - don't even give him time to drop the gun.

- M4H

I agree.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: exdeath
close-quarters gun disarm with knife

You should be going for the upward stab through the throat right off the bat - don't even give him time to drop the gun.

- M4H

My strategy here is to immobilize his arm immediately in order to assure that my control of his weapon is not compromised, esp. if there is a strength advantage against me. A slash to the neck would allow that person to retain the capability to immediately react to their weapon being grabbed by pulling his arm back towards his body in a defensive posture while struggling for control of his weapon with full strength. A person hopped up on adrenaline can function at full strength until they are incapacitated by blood loss even with a fatal neck wound.

Sure, but I don't like to be so far away from my target, as you have to be when you're going for the armpit.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but it feels like I'm less in control when I'm further away. How close do you get when you're going for the muscle?

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: exdeath
close-quarters gun disarm with knife

You should be going for the upward stab through the throat right off the bat - don't even give him time to drop the gun.

- M4H

My strategy here is to immobilize his arm immediately in order to assure that my control of his weapon is not compromised, esp. if there is a strength advantage against me. A slash to the neck would allow that person to retain the capability to immediately react to their weapon being grabbed by pulling his arm back towards his body in a defensive posture while struggling for control of his weapon with full strength. A person hopped up on adrenaline can function at full strength until they are incapacitated by blood loss even with a fatal neck wound.

Sure, but I don't like to be so far away from my target, as you have to be when you're going for the armpit.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but it feels like I'm less in control when I'm further away. How close do you get when you're going for the muscle?

The determination depends on how quickly you can take control of the weapon. If you have to lunge to close a gap, this is obviously not something you do. This is for point blank range where you are close enough to see the glimmer of copper down the muzzle.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: exdeath
close-quarters gun disarm with knife

You should be going for the upward stab through the throat right off the bat - don't even give him time to drop the gun.

- M4H

I agree.

You can take follow up shots wherever you want. Remember, that first slash is only the opening attack and happens by the time the wallet hits the ground. The opening attack should focus on gaining and maintaining control of his weapon so that the remainder of your upcoming assault has a higher probability of being successful. What happens if you grab his gun and pull his arm to the outside, go to stab him or actually stab him, he overpowers your grip, takes a step back while choking on his own blood and shoots you? Crippling the arm he has control of his weapon with will allow you to follow up with successive strikes while having a better chance of keeping control of the weapon. Plan for worse case and assume a long and drawn out confrontation. You may not be able to maintain your grip on the gun for example, then any other attacks are a lost cause.

First concern should always be neutralizing the opponents capability of using their weapon. Since you cannot guarantee instant incapacitation with a 3.5" knife, and you can't guarantee that pain and injury or even imminent death will immediately end the struggle, you have to chose specific but effective opening strikes that achieve literal physical neutralization of the weapon, or at least a reduction of the chance of losing control of it. Someone who is fatally wounded but still controls their weapon can still kill you before they collapse. Don't expect someone to stop fighting back or release their weapon just because you cause them pain or scared them. Make sure the nature of the injury you inflict in and of itself guarantees it in the physical sense of catastrophic structural damage. Because a small knife cannot guarantee immediate incapacitation of an assailant, attacks to the skeletal and muscular system to reduce his real combat effectiveness should be your goal.

My scenario is extremely limited to circumstances that can only be judged in real time. For example, if he fumbled with both hands to catch the wallet such that he moved the gun parallel to his chest with the other hand, he is no longer aiming directly at you and you can't really grab his weapon at that point. In the chaos on his part you can evaluate if you have time to retrieve your firearm and forget the knife completely.

Of course, practice or not, I will probably never be in that situation because I not only carry open and visibly, which is a major deterrent all by itself, but I also don't walk around looking at the ground oblivious of my surroundings. A sense of confidence and a projection of that confidence is far greater a weapon than any knife or gun. If you stare him in the eye before he crosses the street and acknowledge his presence and show no fear or hesitation, he will simply pass you by for the next person who is entranced by their cell phone. If I did find myself in some situation like this, I don't think there would be a referee standing around to ensure that he wont kill me anyway if I cooperate, hence I would fight for my life. And like I said, I don't carry cash, he might chase after me and kill me out of anger that my wallet was empty. Don't assume ANYTHING when your life is in danger.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: exdeath
close-quarters gun disarm with knife

You should be going for the upward stab through the throat right off the bat - don't even give him time to drop the gun.

- M4H

I agree.

You can take follow up shots wherever you want. Remember, that first slash is only the opening attack and happens by the time the wallet hits the ground. The opening attack should focus on gaining and maintaining control of his weapon. What happens if you grab his gun and pull his arm to the outside, go to stab him or actually stab him, he overpowers your grip, takes a step back while choking on his own blood and shoots you? Crippling the arm he has control of his weapon with will allow you to follow up with successive strikes while having a better chance of keeping control of the weapon. Plan for worse case and assume a long and drawn out confrontation. You may not be able to maintain your grip on the gun for example, then any other attacks are a lost cause.

First concern should always be neutralizing the opponents capability of using their weapon. Since you cannot guarantee instant incapacitation with a 3.5" knife, and you can't guarantee that pain and injury or even imminent death will immediately end the struggle, you have to chose specific but effective opening strikes that achieve literal physical neutralization of the weapon, or at least a reduction of the chance of losing control of it. Someone who is fatally wounded but still controls their weapon can still kill you before they collapse. Don't expect someone to stop fighting back or release their weapon just because you cause them pain or scared them. Make sure the nature of the injury you inflict in and of itself guarantees it in the physical sense of catastrophic structural damage.

My scenario is extremely limited to circumstances that can only be judged in real time. For example, if he fumbled with both hands to catch the wallet such that he moved the gun parallel to his chest with the other hand, he is no longer aiming directly at you and you can't really grab is weapon at that point. In the chaos on his part you can evaluate if you have time to retrieve your firearm and forget the knife completely.

Of course, practice or not, I will probably never be in that situation because I not only carry open and visibly, which is a major deterrent all by itself, but I also don't walk around looking at the ground oblivious of my surroundings. A sense of confidence and a projection of that confidence is far greater a weapon than any knife or gun. If you stare him in the eye before he crosses the street and acknowledge his presence and show no fear or hesitation, he will simply pass you by for the next person who is entranced by their cell phone. If I did find myself in some situation like this, I don't think there would be a referee standing around to ensure that he wont kill me anyway if I cooperate, hence I would fight for my life. And like I said, I don't carry cash, he might chase after me and kill me out of anger that my wallet was empty. Don't assume ANYTHING when your life is in danger.

Thanks... I'll remember that. :thumbsup:

I have one other question, though. If you and I are better prepared to defend ourselves, why would we want that person to pass us by and possibly kill someone else? I'd rather have them come for myself so that I could stop it from happening to someone that is less alert.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Thanks... I'll remember that. :thumbsup:

I have one other question, though. If you and I are better prepared to defend ourselves, why would we want that person to pass us by and possibly kill someone else? I'd rather have them come for myself so that I could stop it from happening to someone that is less alert.

Uhm... I'm not even sure how to answer that...

If you want to carry a gun and run around pro-actively LOOKING for trouble to clean up the neighborhood... join the police.

As far as following my advise, do so at your own risk. Reading a forum does not constitute sufficient training or experience to make the same choices someone else might make. I was just providing an example supporting another posters correct assumption that reaching for your concealed-carry gun is not always the best action:

Originally posted by: Special K
Question for the gun experts here - if you are concealed-carrying your gun and a robber pulls a gun on you, would you even have enough time to draw your own weapon and fire a shot without the robber shooting you first, assuming the robber's gun was loaded and he actually intended to use it?

PS: if you're going to grab a hold of an assailants gun and force it in a safe direction while assaulting him with a defensive counter attack, be prepared not to let go at all costs until you render the assailant safe. That includes suffering burns, severe pinching and bruising, and having your hand torn open by the front sight post during slide recoil should the weapon fire. If the struggle becomes one for the weapon itself and you are unable to continue your assault directly on the person holding the weapon, things like placing a thumb behind the trigger, in front of the hammer, unlocking the slide out of battery either by your firm grip or by jamming a finger in the ejection port, hitting the magazine release, etc, will prevent repeated discharge. But that level of action is way beyond the scope of things here... just the knowledge of a wide variety of firearms alone is overwhelming to many.

Of course also accept the possibility that you could fail and be killed, but then, that was the problem you were acting to avoid in the first place.

To answer Special K though, carrying a gun is not a guarantee, it just increases your chances and reduces the number of circumstances not in your favor. Carrying a wrench around in your pocket doesn't make you an expert mechanic; worse if you've never worked on a car before and think it does.

 

[thomsbrain]

even as a liberal, i have to side with the guy protecting himself.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: manowar821

Thanks... I'll remember that. :thumbsup:

I have one other question, though. If you and I are better prepared to defend ourselves, why would we want that person to pass us by and possibly kill someone else? I'd rather have them come for myself so that I could stop it from happening to someone that is less alert.

Uhm... I'm not even sure how to answer that...

If you want to carry a gun and run around pro-actively LOOKING for trouble to clean up the neighborhood... join the police.

As far as following my advise, do so at your own risk. Reading a forum does not constitute sufficient training or experience to make the same choices someone else might make. I was just providing an example supporting another posters correct assumption that reaching for your concealed-carry gun is not always the best action:

Originally posted by: Special K
Question for the gun experts here - if you are concealed-carrying your gun and a robber pulls a gun on you, would you even have enough time to draw your own weapon and fire a shot without the robber shooting you first, assuming the robber's gun was loaded and he actually intended to use it?

PS: if you're going to grab a hold of an assailants gun and force it in a safe direction while assaulting him with a defensive counter attack, be prepared not to let go at all costs until you render the assailant safe. That includes suffering burns, severe pinching and bruising, and having your hand torn open by the front sight post during slide recoil should the weapon fire. If the struggle becomes one for the weapon itself and you are unable to continue your assault directly on the person holding the weapon, things like placing a thumb behind the trigger, in front of the hammer, unlocking the slide out of battery either by your firm grip or by jamming a finger in the ejection port, hitting the magazine release, etc, will prevent repeated discharge. But that level of action is way beyond the scope of things here... just the knowledge of a wide variety of firearms alone is overwhelming to many.

Of course also accept the possibility that you could fail and be killed, but then, that was the problem you were acting to avoid in the first place.

To answer Special K though, carrying a gun is not a guarantee, it just increases your chances and reduces the number of circumstances not in your favor. Carrying a wrench around in your pocket doesn't make you an expert mechanic; worse if you've never worked on a car before and think it does.

What if the attacker was not within arm's reach of you when he initially pulled out his gun? Would you actually lunge at him to try and grab it? That would seem pretty risky.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: manowar821

Thanks... I'll remember that. :thumbsup:

I have one other question, though. If you and I are better prepared to defend ourselves, why would we want that person to pass us by and possibly kill someone else? I'd rather have them come for myself so that I could stop it from happening to someone that is less alert.

Uhm... I'm not even sure how to answer that...

If you want to carry a gun and run around pro-actively LOOKING for trouble to clean up the neighborhood... join the police.

As far as following my advise, do so at your own risk. Reading a forum does not constitute sufficient training or experience to make the same choices someone else might make. I was just providing an example supporting another posters correct assumption that reaching for your concealed-carry gun is not always the best action:

Originally posted by: Special K
Question for the gun experts here - if you are concealed-carrying your gun and a robber pulls a gun on you, would you even have enough time to draw your own weapon and fire a shot without the robber shooting you first, assuming the robber's gun was loaded and he actually intended to use it?

PS: if you're going to grab a hold of an assailants gun and force it in a safe direction while assaulting him with a defensive counter attack, be prepared not to let go at all costs until you render the assailant safe. That includes suffering burns, severe pinching and bruising, and having your hand torn open by the front sight post during slide recoil should the weapon fire. If the struggle becomes one for the weapon itself and you are unable to continue your assault directly on the person holding the weapon, things like placing a thumb behind the trigger, in front of the hammer, unlocking the slide out of battery either by your firm grip or by jamming a finger in the ejection port, hitting the magazine release, etc, will prevent repeated discharge. But that level of action is way beyond the scope of things here... just the knowledge of a wide variety of firearms alone is overwhelming to many.

Of course also accept the possibility that you could fail and be killed, but then, that was the problem you were acting to avoid in the first place.

To answer Special K though, carrying a gun is not a guarantee, it just increases your chances and reduces the number of circumstances not in your favor. Carrying a wrench around in your pocket doesn't make you an expert mechanic; worse if you've never worked on a car before and think it does.

What if the attacker was not within arm's reach of you when he initially pulled out his gun? Would you actually lunge at him to try and grab it? That would seem pretty risky.

Of course not, I addressed that:

Originally posted by: exdeath
The determination depends on how quickly you can take control of the weapon. If you have to lunge to close a gap, this is obviously not something you do. This is for point blank range where you are close enough to see the glimmer of copper down the muzzle.

Someone expecting you to hand over your wallet with a gun probably isn't going to be hiding behind a dumpster 15 feet away from you asking you to leave your wallet. Ie: they are more often than not going to be up close and personal where they can take it from your hand as soon as you comply.

If not, obviously other tactics are called for. The range of circumstances, tactics, and skill levels are more than I could possibly cover in this thread, or even know myself. Your brain is your best weapon.

You could try to get the attacker to lower his guard or distract him by talking to him, by requesting he don't kill you, etc "Here you can have my money, my ATM card is in there, do you want the pin number? I have x dollars in the bank you can have it just please don't hurt me." Be the perfect harmless victim that is willing to cooperate. Keep him busy, offer things like your cell phone, your watch, things he might not have thought off. Not only is his mind distracted by the treasure, but your willingness to cooperate and voluntarily give up all your valuables will give you more freedom to move your hands around your body. Are you emptying your pockets of valuables to give up or are you retrieving a concealed weapon?

If he was planning to kill you anyway, you've given him more that he might want to take from you (i.e.: you're willing to give him your pin number, he might think twice about killing you right away and that will buy some time). Make yourself more valuable alive. Meanwhile the goal in your head is to get him tantalized enough that you can safely draw your concealed handgun and catch him off guard.

Bottom line, to address your original post asking 'gun experts' 'what if x happens', carrying a gun does not mean it is always the first or only or best solution. It's just *one* option, one that severely limits the number of scenarios where you are defenseless. There may be a time where that concealed gun of yours is useless, but not as often as it might be useful.

And, didn't these two punks approach this guy with a drawn weapon? Somehow he drew a concealed weapon and fired first. They didn't even get a shot off

 

[YoungGun21]

One less idiot thug on the streets.

Needs to happen more often.

 

[1sikbITCH]

Originally posted by: Connoisseur
Seems like another case where you take an extreme (or statistically minor) incident and make it the poster child for a cause. As far as gun control is concerned, I'd like to know statistics on the following:
1) How many shootings are committed by criminals with registered guns or registered guns stolen from civilians or guns purchased through gun shows (not sure if these have to be registered)?
2) How many "justifiable" killings are committed by civilians with registered guns?

I suspect 1>>>2 unless someone can prove me wrong. If they can, i'll gladly tuck my tail between my legs and leave. If i'm right, what justification is there for giving civilians the right to carry concealed weapons. It's pure statistics in my opinion. Now i've never had a gun pointed at me or my family and I feel sorry for those who have experienced this; i'm not sure if it would change my opinion emotionally but i'm willing to bet the majority of gun owners haven't had this happen to them either. I'm not going to discuss the right to bear arms simply because it'll just be a flaming argument between both sides.

::EDIT:: Was responding more to the question of whether or not this event should promote the cause of guns, not whether or not the kid was guilty. I think all the people involved are retarded for blaming a man for defending himself from a couple of criminals.

Your scenario here is totally skewed. Most places do not allow people to carry their weapon in public. Therefore only the criminal will be armed. Therefore of course the amount of people who use a handgun to commit a crime will obviously be far greater than the few people who find it necessary to fire their weapon in self-defense. You pretty much have to rob them inside their house because that's the only place they can have their weapon.

Furthermore, you are probably aware of the much used argument in this debate that in places such as Florida which allow Concealed Carry, the criminals target out of state tourists rather than residents, because the residents might well be packing whereas the tourists are going to be defenseless. So there again we have criminals with guns avoiding citizens who might also have guns and therefore these citizens will not have to use their weapon. Just having the weapon ensures their safety (as long as the tourists keep on coming )

 

[dennilfloss]

I'm pro gun control and this guy used his registered weapon appropriately and lawfully in my opinion. I hate thugs and gangbangers and those who side with them or pity them when they reap consequences for their wrongdoings.

Here's another example of that gang mentality in action, in Toronto this time.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/04/26/4131247-sun.html

Lawless youth tribalism FTL.:|

 

[s0ssos]

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: BKLounger
let me just make sure i am crystal here. A 15 year old pulls a gun on a person then the other person responds by shooting a weapon (which he had concealed and a permit for) and people are on the side of the 15 year old?

Am i correct in this? who in the world can actually be on the side of the 15 year old with an illegal fire arm who pulled his weapon first?

people of similar morals and make up.

i don't see why nobody responded to your stupid comment yet.
you are trying to say that you have good morals, and that you are on the side of the 15 year old.
so, what are these moral principles you so speak of?

 

[s0ssos]

Originally posted by: TecHNooB

Originally posted by: hungfarover
There's nothing to debate here. The kid is dead and deserves to be.

We're waiting for the guy who sides with the kid so we can pounce on him

that'd be leftyman. go back to the first page and read

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP
i can't believe stupid people put up a memorial at where the kid died. he was a thug, and looked for trouble. he was just asking for it. he deserves no memorial, no balloons, no teddy bears. lame.

It's sad that someone died, but realistically, the kid was an idiot... pull a gun on someone and you WILL face the consequences. The people harassing the home owner should jump off the deep end. He did nothing wrong. Killed someone, yes, but it was in self-defense and is not murder.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: s0ssos

Originally posted by: TecHNooB

Originally posted by: hungfarover
There's nothing to debate here. The kid is dead and deserves to be.

We're waiting for the guy who sides with the kid so we can pounce on him

that'd be leftyman. go back to the first page and read

if you would read what he said word for word, I believe he was responding to who could place blame on the guy that shot the little punk, someone of the same moral makeup as the little punk.

 

[s0ssos]

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: s0ssos

Originally posted by: TecHNooB

Originally posted by: hungfarover
There's nothing to debate here. The kid is dead and deserves to be.

We're waiting for the guy who sides with the kid so we can pounce on him

that'd be leftyman. go back to the first page and read

if you would read what he said word for word, I believe he was responding to who could place blame on the guy that shot the little punk, someone of the same moral makeup as the little punk.

quote:
Originally posted by: pontifex
you have to love how everyone completely ignores the fact that the kid pulled a gun on the guy in an attempt to rob him...its all about the guy who shot him and how much a an animal and criminal he is.

reply by leftyman
Just a guess but I believe there are other issues involved...

that was the first statement he made. which would lead me to conclude something different about the second statement he made.

leftyman said there are other issues involved. that implies, for me, that he is sympathetic to the other side.
and later,

quote:
Originally posted by: BKLounger
let me just make sure i am crystal here. A 15 year old pulls a gun on a person then the other person responds by shooting a weapon (which he had concealed and a permit for) and people are on the side of the 15 year old?

Am i correct in this? who in the world can actually be on the side of the 15 year old with an illegal fire arm who pulled his weapon first?


leftman replies:
people of similar morals and make up.

 

[KK]

that's a quote from pontifex isn't it?

edit. He was just saying that he was guessing that there may be other issues that weren't being brought out to the public.

But as far as who would back the punk, he said that the people who make up the same moral and make up.

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
I'm pro gun control and this guy used his registered weapon appropriately and lawfully in my opinion. I hate thugs and gangbangers and those who side with them or pity them when they reap consequences for their wrongdoings.

Here's another example of that gang mentality in action, in Toronto this time.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/04/26/4131247-sun.html

Lawless youth tribalism FTL.:|

So if you're pro gun control...and realize all this is BS...why are you pro???