15 month old babies show racial bias

[Texashiker]

Maybe one day they'll a find a treatment for redneck trash like yourself.

Ad hominem.

Instead of discussing an otherwise excellent topic you post insults.

 

[dank69]

Please tell me where "less of a human" has been mentioned in this thread?

Please tell me where the word "inferior" has been used?

You sir are bringing blatant racism into an otherwise good thread.




Since when is natural behavior ignorance?

Try your hardest to follow the train of thought. Saying ignorance prevents someone from overcoming their negative natural behavior is not the same as saying natural behavior is ignorance.

 

[alzan]

Bull crap, gays are listed right there in the opening post.

If racism (in-group bias) is natural and can be treated, what else can be treated?

Maybe one day researches can find a treatment for gays.

Maybe researchers can one day find a treatment for homophobes like you; or maybe you'll all just die off.

 

[Texashiker]

Maybe researchers can one day find a treatment for homophobes like you;

I assure you I am not afraid of gays.

I simply have in-group bias. Gays are not in my group so I biased towards them.

This is natural behavior and you are a bigot for condemning me for something that is not my fault.

 

[nehalem256]

In America? Or are you using stats from third world countries to justify your belief about what is good for the US?

One in five gay men in the United States has HIV, and almost half of those who carry the virus are unaware that they are infected, according to a new Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/23/AR2010092306828.html

 

[nageov3t]

In America? Or are you using stats from third world countries to justify your belief about what is good for the US?

it's estimated that there are about 1 million people in America with HIV (http://kff.org/hivaids/fact-sheet/the-hivaids-epidemic-in-the-united-states/) and it's estimated that there are about 9-10 million gay people in the country (http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Gates-How-Many-People-LGBT-Apr-2011.pdf)

given that 30% of transmissions occur through heterosexual sex (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm), I'm not sure I can buy the "20% of gay men have HIV" line.

at least, speaking as one gay man who knows many, many other gay men, I'm incredulous towards the idea that 1 in 5 gay men is carrying HIV unless the HIV population is disproportionately older (eg: people who may have caught the disease before there was public awareness of it)

 

[dank69]

If nehalem's source is correct and loki's sources are correct then almost every single person in America that has HIV is a gay male. I find that hard to believe.

 

[nehalem256]

If nehalem's source is correct and loki's sources are correct then almost every single person in America that has HIV is a gay male. I find that hard to believe.

Its something like 50-60% I believe.

Gay men are something like 50-100 times more likely than the general population to contract HIV.

 

[thraashman]

I assure you I am not afraid of gays.

I simply have in-group bias. Gays are not in my group so I biased towards them.

This is natural behavior and you are a bigot for condemning me for something that is not my fault.

You are so unbelievably full of shit I can smell you from here, and it's nasty. You are the worst type of human being. You're trying to justify your bigotry by claiming that those who are unwilling to abide by your shitty behavior are themselves bigots. It's bullshit and even someone as remarkably fucktardedly stupid as you knows it. I won't sit back and be polite to someone who chooses to be such a raging piece of shit like you.

 

[TerryMathews]

15 month old babies hit each other and take toys from other children without asking. Probably should make violence and stealing legal now.

Newsflash: racism is legal.

Spidey can stand on his stoop and shout "I hate n...s" all day long and there's nothing anyone can legally do about it.

Straw man fail.

 

[dank69]

Newsflash: racism is legal.

Spidey can stand on his stoop and shout "I hate n...s" all day long and there's nothing anyone can legally do about it.

Straw man fail.

I never said racism is illegal. The point was that just because something is natural doesn't mean it is acceptable.

 

[dank69]

Its something like 50-60% I believe.

Gay men are something like 50-100 times more likely than the general population to contract HIV.

Well your numbers and his numbers don't agree.

 

[alzan]

I assure you I am not afraid of gays.

I simply have in-group bias. Gays are not in my group so I biased towards them.

This is natural behavior and you are a bigot for condemning me for something that is not my fault.

It may be natural behavior but it can be unlearned; the fact that you refuse to do anything about it is what I'm condemning.

And we're all going to die eventually, it's on everyone's to do list.

 

[Texashiker]

You are so unbelievably full of shit I can smell you from here, and it's nasty. You are the worst type of human being. You're trying to justify your bigotry by claiming that those who are unwilling to abide by your shitty behavior are themselves bigots. It's bullshit and even someone as remarkably fucktardedly stupid as you knows it.

You miss understand me. I do not want to take equal rights away from gays. Let them marry, get their poo packed everynight, munch some tacos,,,, I do not care.

But that does not mean I have to like it.

I won't sit back and be polite to someone who chooses to be such a raging piece of shit like you.

You say that like I am supposed to care.

You do not think there is a way to balance things you do and do not like? Surely there is something in life you do not like? Maybe a certain type of food or drink? But you are not calling for that food or drink to be banned are you?

As I have asked several times in this thread, where is the line between in-group bias and racism?

As of yet nobody has given a solid answer.

I am going to answer that question.

Bias - do not like or want to be around.

Racism - see others as inferior, wish ill-will upon, try to take rights away from, inflict harm upon.

In my eyes there is a big difference between bias and racism. Its like a seed and a weed. Racism starts with bias and grows if left untreated.

Just as scientist are developing better weed killers, so maybe can researchers develop better treatments for racism.

As with the study in the opening post bias is natural. What grows out of being biased is not natural.

Benjamin Franklin once said in a letter to a business partner / friend, to hate someone for no reason is the sign of a sick mind.

Bias does not mean hate.

Racism is hate.

Racism is a byproduct of a sick mind.

 

[nageov3t]

If nehalem's source is correct and loki's sources are correct then almost every single person in America that has HIV is a gay male. I find that hard to believe.

the big thing that gives me pause about the 20% study is that it specifically seemed to target urban areas and in particular, shitholes like Baltimore (as opposed to the general gay population at-large... most of us are just plebs schlepping off to work from the suburbs and working out 9-5's, not hitting the party circuit every weekend and spending the after party ass-up in a sling with a blindfold on in a room full of strangers)

 

[werepossum]

the big thing that gives me pause about the 20% study is that it specifically seemed to target urban areas and in particular, shitholes like Baltimore (as opposed to the general gay population at-large... most of us are just plebs schlepping off to work from the suburbs and working out 9-5's, not hitting the party circuit every weekend and spending the after party ass-up in a sling with a blindfold on in a room full of strangers)

Well said. One such study in particular was actually based on prison populations. I saw another study that said 1 in 4 black women are HIV-positive. Fact is one can make a study that says damned near anything one wants it to say just by careful selection of one's study population and assumptions.

 

[nehalem256]

Well your numbers and his numbers don't agree.

My numbers are from the CDC.

Are you alleging that the CDC is homophobic?

the big thing that gives me pause about the 20% study is that it specifically seemed to target urban areas and in particular, shitholes like Baltimore (as opposed to the general gay population at-large... most of us are just plebs schlepping off to work from the suburbs and working out 9-5's, not hitting the party circuit every weekend and spending the after party ass-up in a sling with a blindfold on in a room full of strangers)

Even using your numbers you would arrive at something like 1/10 gay men having HIV.

9-10 million gay people (assume 5 million gay men).
~1 million people with HIV (~50% say gay men).

And that 1/10 is almost certainly representing a lower bound.

 

[HumblePie]

All this shows is that babies normal chose on familiarity if they have nothing else to chose from more than likely.

A 15 month old baby is going to generally only be exposed to what they know, their parents and siblings. Which are going to look a lot like them racially usually.

This study is flawed unless it also used babies of race adopted directly out of the womb, or raised straight out of the womb by a family of a different race. Without that earlier exposure to something else, this whole study is flawed.

I would like to see if they had a white baby right out of the womb raised for 15 months by a black family and the chosing results of that baby. And then the reciprocal of that as well. Which is a black baby raised by a white family since birth. When those baselines are met, the study can make a better correlation on if babies chose on family trait familiarity when they have nothing else to chose from, or if they are choosing based on on their own racial prejudice.

 

[dank69]

My numbers are from the CDC.

Are you alleging that the CDC is homophobic?

I didn't allege anything about your number. I specifically didn't say yours or his were wrong, just that they don't agree, so something is wrong somewhere.

Even using your numbers you would arrive at something like 1/10 gay men having HIV.

9-10 million gay people (assume 5 million gay men).
~1 million people with HIV (~50% say gay men).

And that 1/10 is almost certainly representing a lower bound.

That is a lot of assumptions.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Maybe society needs to stop using hateful terms such as racist and bigot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...acial-bias-picking-playmates-study-found.html







There is mindset that children are blind to race, and racism is a learned behavior. With studies like this can we honestly say racism is a learned behavior?

Some forms of racism such as violence towards certain groups are learned. If someone can learn violent racism, they can unlearn it as well.

On a side note this might explain why so many people dislike gays. Gays are not in our group so people show a natural bias towards them.

The main question I have, where is the dividing line between in-group bias and racism?

 

[dank69]

You miss understand me. I do not want to take equal rights away from gays. Let them marry, get their poo packed everynight, munch some tacos,,,, I do not care.

But that does not mean I have to like it.




You say that like I am supposed to care.

You do not think there is a way to balance things you do and do not like? Surely there is something in life you do not like? Maybe a certain type of food or drink? But you are not calling for that food or drink to be banned are you?

As I have asked several times in this thread, where is the line between in-group bias and racism?

As of yet nobody has given a solid answer.

I am going to answer that question.

Bias - do not like or want to be around.

Racism - see others as inferior, wish ill-will upon, try to take rights away from, inflict harm upon.

In my eyes there is a big difference between bias and racism. Its like a seed and a weed. Racism starts with bias and grows if left untreated.

Just as scientist are developing better weed killers, so maybe can researchers develop better treatments for racism.

As with the study in the opening post bias is natural. What grows out of being biased is not natural.

Benjamin Franklin once said in a letter to a business partner / friend, to hate someone for no reason is the sign of a sick mind.

Bias does not mean hate.

Racism is hate.

Racism is a byproduct of a sick mind.

The bolded is not the definition of racism. Those are consequences of racism.

 

[dank69]

All this shows is that babies normal chose on familiarity if they have nothing else to chose from more than likely.

A 15 month old baby is going to generally only be exposed to what they know, their parents and siblings. Which are going to look a lot like them racially usually.

This study is flawed unless it also used babies of race adopted directly out of the womb, or raised straight out of the womb by a family of a different race. Without that earlier exposure to something else, this whole study is flawed.

I would like to see if they had a white baby right out of the womb raised for 15 months by a black family and the chosing results of that baby. And then the reciprocal of that as well. Which is a black baby raised by a white family since birth. When those baselines are met, the study can make a better correlation on if babies chose on family trait familiarity when they have nothing else to chose from, or if they are choosing based on on their own racial prejudice.

This seems to me to be the case as well. At 15 months they only know what they have been exposed to. I believe this because they will exhibit the same behavior toward anything different, not just racial differences.

 

[Texashiker]

The bolded is not the definition of racism. Those are consequences of racism.

That is my personal definition of racism.

If we want a true definition of racism,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

Racism is actions, practices or beliefs, or social or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities.

It may also hold that members of different races should be treated differently.

If we say being bias is racist, then the children in the study are racist.

If the children are racist, then it is not a learned behavior.

~ EDIT ~

Going back to post 64 and what you said about consequences, could the difference between bias and racism be intent?

If you intend to harm someone, that is racism.

If you do not intend to harm someone, then it is not racism?

The children did not intend to harm anyone by picking their own race.

 

[dank69]

That is my personal definition of racism.

If we want a true definition of racism,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism


If we say being bias is racist, then the children in the study are racist.

If the children are racist, then it is not a learned behavior.

~ EDIT ~

Going back to post 64 and what you said about consequences, could the difference between bias and racism be intent?

If you intend to harm someone, that is racism.

If you do not intend to harm someone, then it is not racism?

The children did not intend to harm anyone by picking their own race.

It becomes racism when you think that all races should not be treated equally.

 

[PokerGuy]

Liking those who look and act similar to your tribe vs someone that looks or acts differently is probably rooted in evolution, so the findings in this study are not at all surprising to me. The fact that something is rooted in evolution doesn't mean it should be accepted behavior, but it should help us understand that it's not simply something learned that we can simply avoid by not teaching it. It appears our "default state" is to be racist to some extent, and then we can learn to expand our understanding to get beyond that starting point.