13 students charged with Felony Computer trespass with school issued laptops 8-9-05

[dmcowen674]

Sound familar?

Everything exact wording including the final deal.

Out with a "whimper"
=====================================================
Breaking News:

These kids are basically getting same "Face Saving" deal by Prosecutors as Dave.

8-26-2005 'Kutztown 13' Hackers Quietly Offered Deal

The case against the "Kutztown 13" ? a group of Pennsylvania high school students charged with felonies for tinkering with their school-issued laptop computers ? seems to be ending mostly with a whimper.

In meetings with students over the last several days, the Berks County juvenile probation office has quietly offered the students a deal in which all charges would be dropped in exchange for 15 hours of community service, a letter of apology, a class on personal responsibility and a few months of probation.

"The probation department realizes this is small potatoes," said William Bispels, an attorney representing nearly half the accused students.

Mike Boland, who represents one student, said his client will likely accept the offer. "It doesn't require my client to acknowledge he is guilty of anything," he said.

"It's about as mild as you can go," agreed James Shrawder, whose 15-year-old nephew was among those offered the deal. "It's more of a face-saving measure."


=====================================================
The Kutztown 13

8-9-2005 Students Charged With Computer Trespass

KUTZTOWN, Pa. - They're being called the Kutztown 13 ? a group of high schoolers charged with felonies for bypassing security with school-issued laptops, downloading forbidden Internet goodies and using monitoring software to spy on district administrators.

IT staff at schools are often poorly trained, making it easy for students with even modest computer skills to get around security, he said.

Fifteen-year-old John Shrawder, one of the Kutztown 13, complained that the charges don't fit the offense. He fears a felony conviction could hurt his college and job prospects.

Shrawder's uncle, James Shrawder, has set up a Web site that tells the students' side of the story.

"As parents, we don't want our kid breaking in to the Defense Department or stealing credit card numbers," said the elder Shrawder, a businessman. "But downloading iChat and chatting with their friends? They are not hurting anybody. They're just curious."

The site, http://www.cutusabreak.org, has been visited tens of thousands of times and sells T-shirts and bumper stickers, including one that says: "Arrest me, I know the password!"

The district isn't backing down, however.

It points out that students and parents were required to sign a code of conduct and acceptable use policy, which contained warnings of legal action.

The 13 students charged violated that policy, said Kutztown Police Chief Theodore Cole, insisting the school district had exhausted all options short of expulsion before seeking the charges. Cole said, however, that there is no evidence the students attacked or disabled the school's computer network, altered grades or did anything else that could be deemed malicious.







=====================================================
Although he admits to "Unathorized Access" he vehemetly denies that he "damaged" every computer system as the U.S. contends.

He cannot find work, his girlfriend dumped him.

All because he used off the shelf software RemotelyAnywhere and Netstat.

7-25-2005 Various UK Websites and BBC Interview

BBC Audio Interview

UK Citizen Gary McKinnon to be extradicted for hacking into U.S. Military systems looking for UFO evidence.

Free Gary Web Blog

This blog website is intended to support British citizen Gary McKinnon, who is facing "fast track" extradition to the USA (after over two and a half years since his initial arrest !).
Gary was indicted by a US court in November 2002, accused of "hacking" into over 90 US Military computer systems from here in the UK.

The unjust treatment of British citizens (and others) when facing the might of the US Military "justice" sysem, which practices detention without trial in Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere, and stands accused of making use of torture by allied regimes ("extraordinary rendition") is an ongoing scandal. It cannot be excused even by a "war on terror".

It seems only just that Gary should face any charges in a British court, and to serve any sentence, if he is found guilty, in a British prison.

garymckinnon.com

US authorities want to charge McKinnon with seven counts of computer fraud, and he faces separate trials in Virginia and New Jersey.

 

[DanC]

Uff. Deja Vu.

 

[BadThad]

....facing the might of the US Military "justice" sysem, which practices detention without trial in Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere...

And thank God they do. Those are TERRORIST's at Gitmo!

 

[dmcowen674]

The Kutztown 13

8-9-2005 Students Charged With Computer Trespass

KUTZTOWN, Pa. - They're being called the Kutztown 13 ? a group of high schoolers charged with felonies for bypassing security with school-issued laptops, downloading forbidden Internet goodies and using monitoring software to spy on district administrators.

IT staff at schools are often poorly trained, making it easy for students with even modest computer skills to get around security, he said.

Fifteen-year-old John Shrawder, one of the Kutztown 13, complained that the charges don't fit the offense. He fears a felony conviction could hurt his college and job prospects.

Shrawder's uncle, James Shrawder, has set up a Web site that tells the students' side of the story.

"As parents, we don't want our kid breaking in to the Defense Department or stealing credit card numbers," said the elder Shrawder, a businessman. "But downloading iChat and chatting with their friends? They are not hurting anybody. They're just curious."

The site, http://www.cutusabreak.org, has been visited tens of thousands of times and sells T-shirts and bumper stickers, including one that says: "Arrest me, I know the password!"

The district isn't backing down, however.

It points out that students and parents were required to sign a code of conduct and acceptable use policy, which contained warnings of legal action.

The 13 students charged violated that policy, said Kutztown Police Chief Theodore Cole, insisting the school district had exhausted all options short of expulsion before seeking the charges. Cole said, however, that there is no evidence the students attacked or disabled the school's computer network, altered grades or did anything else that could be deemed malicious.

 

[kamper]

Sometimes I think cracking should be completely legal. If you leave the front door wide open, don't be surprised when someone walks in the house. There's far too much grey area around people that poke around to see just how insecure things are, without any malicious intent at all. The last thing in the world that we want is developers and admins skimping on security because they're counting on the legal threat to stop crackers.

 

[RaySun2Be]

The Kutztown 13

That is so wrong on so many levels. The IT guy was an immature idiot, and the administration are immature morons. Some kids tried to give the laptops back, but were forced to keep them. To use a common password that is written on the bottom of the laptop is lunacy. Then to use one that is a common word plus a number is mindnumbingly stupid. I read many of the comments, and a number were from parents who insisted that they were never notified before their kids were charged. And then to charge only a few of the culprits.

And I agree Kamper. Some people have stumbled onto MAJOR security issues, and instead of doing anything malicious they tried to notify those that needed to know. And what have they gotten for their "good neighbor" efforts? Prosecuted. :|

That's like me walking by a neighbor's house, noticing something funny with one of their windows. I walk over to get a better look, and notice that it's unlocked. Knowing they are away for the week, I call them and let them know. Instead of thanking me, they call the police and have me charged with trespassing.

The last thing in the world that we want is developers and admins skimping on security because they're counting on the legal threat to stop crackers.

But that's what we will get. The end result will be that security holes and issues will still be noticed, but no-one will say anything for fear of prosecution, just because some IT and managers childish egos cannot handle criticism or shown lacking. :|

 

[RedCOMET]

I'm suprised the school district didn't expel kids. They claim they did everything else short of expelling. Also, why didn't they take away the laptops?

 

[RaySun2Be]

I don't think they should be expelled for basically bypassing extremely poor security measures to download games, chat programs, and surf the Internet. Since the program was mandatory and they couldn't return the laptops, it's like they were being setup to fail.

They didn't hack into the network and change grades, or destroy data, or grab and publish any sensitive data. They just bypassed poor security to surf the net and chat. No real harm done, except to the IT admin and school admin egos. And that certainly shouldn't be cause for expulsion or prosecution.

Once the IT department knew about the hacked passwords, they should have recalled all laptops, hardened security, and kept closer tabs on them. Followed by reprimands, detension, discussion with the parents, and if all else fails, take the laptop away. No need to expel or prosecute. Morons. :|

 

[Overkiller]

At my highschool we would disable the netnanny or whatever was used to filter websites. It was a very very very common password..the IT guy's name. He knew absolutely nothing about it. We didn't do anything outside of removing it so we could go to news sites and the like, yes it was all restricted. Fault the person whose MAIN responsibility is network security imo.

 

[JWMiddleton]

Originally posted by: RaySun2Be
I don't think they should be expelled for basically bypassing extremely poor security measures to download games, chat programs, and surf the Internet.

Since they have learned on their own and know more than the instructor, I think they should be given course credit for some IT related course. But, no! They were bad, so let's make sure they can't get into college! :|

 

[Gonnagetu]

Originally posted by: RaySun2Be
I don't think they should be expelled for basically bypassing extremely poor security measures to download games, chat programs, and surf the Internet. Since the program was mandatory and they couldn't return the laptops, it's like they were being setup to fail.
. :|

Setting them up to fail??? My god man!! Do you people all need babysitters? Do you think that if someone does nothing to stop you that it is OK to do it? The other day I was at the range with my 44mag, and my son?s mother dropped my son off. By the logic you guys are using I could have shot her and got away with it. She should have had a bullet proof vest on and came in her armored car. Is anyone doing the right thing anymore? Do we all need our hands held? Regardless of how stupid the IT guy was, the kids knew they shouldn?t be doing what they did. So the kids of stupid parents should get away with smoking pot in the den because mom and dad would never think of looking there for that.

I think I'm gonna go to the range for a while. Anyone wanna join me?

 

[networkman]

Originally posted by: Gonnagetu

Originally posted by: RaySun2Be
I don't think they should be expelled for basically bypassing extremely poor security measures to download games, chat programs, and surf the Internet. Since the program was mandatory and they couldn't return the laptops, it's like they were being setup to fail.
. :|

Setting them up to fail??? My god man!! ... Do you think that if someone does nothing to stop you that it is OK to do it? I think I'm gonna go to the range for a while. Anyone wanna join me?

I'd love to join you but my lunch breaks ends in just a few minutes.

I can see that, once again, I'm going to be a minority opinion on a topic, even amoungst my DC comrades.

The students "fully knew it was wrong and they kept doing it," Tucker said. "Parents thought we should reward them for being creative. We don't accept that."

I completely agree with this statement. For what it's worth, I do think that threatening jail time is a bit excessive - this should've been resolved within the school system's rules.

It[the school district] points out that students and parents were required to sign a code of conduct and acceptable use policy, which contained warnings of legal action.

I've so far not seen it verbatim, but if there was an Acceptable Use Policy in place that the students either had to sign or agree to in order to use the laptops, then yes, they should be required to abide by those rules. Lax security is not a free pass. We have an "Acceptable Use Policy" on the computes provided to the patrons where I work(library); most of the patrons probably don't bother to read it, but they are required to accept it in order to use the machine each time want to use it. And we have had patrons get their priviledges revoked for trying to "hack" the computers or otherwise abuse the property - all of which is covered in the policy.

Leaving the computer realm for a moment, if I post "No Trespassing" signs at the edge of my property without a fence and someone comes onto my property anyway, they're still trespassing, whether the security was lax or not, it makes no difference, the property line has been violated. Back to the computer realm, the same holds true for sharing .mp3 files - if you didn't buy the music, you're not entitled to be sharing it and using it regardless of how easy it may be to do. It's still wrong.

edit was to bold one line.

 

[RaySun2Be]

Welcome to Team Anandtech, Gonnagetu. I'm guessing you're a big fan of the zero tolerance policies in place at many schools now.

Babysitters, what the heck are you talking about?? And your example is way off base. I didn't say they should get off scott free, and if you shoot someone, you should be prosecuted!

I'm not talking about coddling the teens, or excusing what they did. I'm talking the punishment should fit the crime. A close analogy would be that a teen walked in to the shooting range and flipped you off, and you shot them because flipping someone off is against the ranges policy. Not talked to them or their parents about the behavior, not kick them out of the range, just shoot them. (shoot them is analogeous to prosecution in the laptop case).

However, the IT admin and the school admins are mainly at fault for failing to secure the laptops properly (ANY IT person worth their salt should know better than to use the password they did, and have it labeled on the bottom of the laptop, duh!, and to use strong passwords that make decryption extremely difficult)

They WERE setup to fail due to weak security and poor administration. Teens push the boundaries. To expect them NOT to do so is lunacy. Even when they realized their shortcomings and temptations, they were not allowed to return the laptops, thus removing the temptation. That is part of what I meant about being setup to fail.

There was a good analogy on the website. Give a kid a big delicious cookie, then tell them they have to carry it around all day, but not eat it. They can't even give it back if they don't think they can do it. You've just set that kid up to fail, as few kids (and many adults) have the willpower to resist something so tempting.
Also, if you read a lot of the comments on their site, many of the parents claim that the school did not follow procedures and notify them, or allow them to help rectify the situation before turning to prosecution.

The punishment should fit the crime. AT WORST, the laptop should have been taken away from the repeat offenders, and them given detention or even expelled for a week. But instead, without notice, 13 of the many are being charged with a FELONY just to be made an example. If convicted, it will really screw up their lives. And for what? Bypassing a password that is so weak most elementary school kids could figure it out, surf the Internet, chat with friends?

Get real, there was no harm done to any property or even data. In a rational, reasonable environment, there is no way this should have escalated into felony charges. Ever. Just take the things away from them.

But in the zero-tolerance environment, rational reasonable thinking doesn't apply. So you have kids being charged with sexual assault at the age of 5 for kissing a girl, you have kids being expelled from school for bringing an aspirin to school, you have kids being expelled from school for bringing in a 1" toy gun, and you have teens being charged with a felony for misuse of a laptop when it could have just as easily been taken from them. Typical zero tolerance over-reaction.

You talk about doing the right thing. Felony charges are NOT the right thing in this case. Detention, a weeks expulsion, taking the laptops away yes. But felony charges? No.

[edit] to reply to NWM
I agree with a lot of what you say. I didn't say what they did was OK and should go unpunished. Especially after repeated attempts to correct the security issue, no matter how lame.

 

[Overkiller]

Originally posted by: RaySun2Be
Welcome to Team Anandtech, Gonnagetu. I'm guessing you're a big fan of the zero tolerance policies in place at many schools now.

Babysitters, what the heck are you talking about?? And your example is way off base. I didn't say they should get off scott free, and if you shoot someone, you should be prosecuted!

I'm not talking about coddling the teens, or excusing what they did. I'm talking the punishment should fit the crime. A close analogy would be that a teen walked in to the shooting range and flipped you off, and you shot them because flipping someone off is against the ranges policy. Not talked to them or their parents about the behavior, not kick them out of the range, just shoot them. (shoot them is analogeous to prosecution in the laptop case).

However, the IT admin and the school admins are mainly at fault for failing to secure the laptops properly (ANY IT person worth their salt should know better than to use the password they did, and have it labeled on the bottom of the laptop, duh!, and to use strong passwords that make decryption extremely difficult)

They WERE setup to fail due to weak security and poor administration. Teens push the boundaries. To expect them NOT to do so is lunacy. Even when they realized their shortcomings and temptations, they were not allowed to return the laptops, thus removing the temptation. That is part of what I meant about being setup to fail.

There was a good analogy on the website. Give a kid a big delicious cookie, then tell them they have to carry it around all day, but not eat it. They can't even give it back if they don't think they can do it. You've just set that kid up to fail, as few kids (and many adults) have the willpower to resist something so tempting.
Also, if you read a lot of the comments on their site, many of the parents claim that the school did not follow procedures and notify them, or allow them to help rectify the situation before turning to prosecution.

The punishment should fit the crime. AT WORST, the laptop should have been taken away from the repeat offenders, and them given detention or even expelled for a week. But instead, without notice, 13 of the many are being charged with a FELONY just to be made an example. If convicted, it will really screw up their lives. And for what? Bypassing a password that is so weak most elementary school kids could figure it out, surf the Internet, chat with friends?

Get real, there was no harm done to any property or even data. In a rational, reasonable environment, there is no way this should have escalated into felony charges. Ever. Just take the things away from them.

But in the zero-tolerance environment, rational reasonable thinking doesn't apply. So you have kids being charged with sexual assault at the age of 5 for kissing a girl, you have kids being expelled from school for bringing an aspirin to school, you have kids being expelled from school for bringing in a 1" toy gun, and you have teens being charged with a felony for misuse of a laptop when it could have just as easily been taken from them. Typical zero tolerance over-reaction.

You talk about doing the right thing. Felony charges are NOT the right thing in this case. Detention, a weeks expulsion, taking the laptops away yes. But felony charges? No.

[edit] to reply to NWM
I agree with a lot of what you say. I didn't say what they did was OK and should go unpunished. Especially after repeated attempts to correct the security issue, no matter how lame.

nicely put.

now only if the polititions could be held to the same no-tolerance policy they advocate on everyone else...but that is another topic for another forum on another day

 

[Gonnagetu]

Gee I told my kids a long time ago that they should not eat snack food before dinner. There is a box of Oreos in the cookie jar, been there for the last couple days. Not one of my 3 kids has eaten one before dinner. One talks about them. But doesn?t eat them. It is the attitude of parents and people that think like you, that set there kids up for failure. Not the tasks they are put to. My oldest loves to swim. He has a set of duties that he must do every day. He does them before he swims. He could swim a little and then do them, and most times no one would ever be the wiser. But he knows the right thing is to do the work first, then swim. My guns are in my office. None of my kids have ever shot anyone. Yet they know where they are. My middle son finishes his homework before watching TV or playing, with out being told he has to.
The "Don't expect to much and you won?t be disappointed" attitude toward kids today is the reason kids that don?t listen or follow rules. And having people like you and the parent that used that analogy, to look up to. Kids have a very bleak future ahead of them.

 

[networkman]

Eh.. okay, guess I'll need to make up a little time at the end of my shift.

I took the time to read ALL of the comments on the cutusabreak.org site, and it does appear that quite a few people do believe the students violating the rules(however lax security was) should still be properly disciplined. But for those that seem to take the track that "Well, I could get past the security easily so that makes it alright." - I just don't understand that at all. And that mindset seems to be echoed by parents as well as students - that's very scary to me! :Q

 

[RaySun2Be]

Originally posted by: Gonnagetu
Gee I told my kids a long time ago that they should not eat snack food before dinner. There is a box of Oreos in the cookie jar, been there for the last couple days. Not one of my 3 kids has eaten one before dinner. One talks about them. But doesn?t eat them. It is the attitude of parents and people that think like you, that set there kids up for failure. Not the tasks they are put to. My oldest loves to swim. He has a set of duties that he must do every day. He does them before he swims. He could swim a little and then do them, and most times no one would ever be the wiser. But he knows the right thing is to do the work first, then swim. My guns are in my office. None of my kids have ever shot anyone. Yet they know where they are. My middle son finishes his homework before watching TV or playing, with out being told he has to.
The "Don't expect to much and you won?t be disappointed" attitude toward kids today is the reason kids that don?t listen or follow rules. And having people like you and the parent that used that analogy, to look up to. Kids have a very bleak future ahead of them.

And I'm SO SURE that your kids have never, ever, ever broken your rules, or ever had to be punished for not following them, or anyone elses rules for that matter. That they always followed them from day 1 and always will.

You are still way off the mark. I'm not even talking about kids and the expectations set of them. And don't try to tell me about kids today. We broke the rules even back when I was growing up, even knowing we could end up with a belt across our butts. Kids have been breaking rules and pushing boundaries since day 1. No matter what is expected of them.

Again, to not expect some of the 150+ kids that got laptops to not try something is lunacy. In fact, I think that the administration DID expect them to do stuff, that's why they installed the spying program, so they could keep tabs (and yes, as a deterant).

You've never said anything about whether you think the 13 should be charged with the felony or not. Instead, you berate me for my supposedly lack or low expectations of kids. Heck, you don't even know me or my kids, or what I expect out of them or others.

You are missing the point, it's not about expectations, it's about the extreme punishment for a few, that doesn't fit with the crime. Why ruin the kids potential career over such a trivial matter? Wrong they may be, violated policy yes, but there are better punishments than charging them with a felony. Sheesh.

Set high expectations yes, but give them some leeway for making mistakes, and learning from those mistakes by setting APPROPRIATE consequences, not ruining their lives over this.

Had they hacked into the school network and altered grades, or acquired tests, or vandalized the network, or done other damage, I'd be all for prosecution.

 

[OhioDude]

Originally posted by: networkman
Eh.. okay, guess I'll need to make up a little time at the end of my shift.

I took the time to read ALL of the comments on the cutusabreak.org site, and it does appear that quite a few people do believe the students violating the rules(however lax security was) should still be properly disciplined. But for those that seem to take the track that "Well, I could get past the security easily so that makes it alright." - I just don't understand that at all. And that mindset seems to be echoed by parents as well as students - that's very scary to me! :Q

I have some definite opinions about this particular subject but I feel it best to keep quiet. Let it suffice to say that I could not possibly agree with you more, Rich.

 

[Gonnagetu]

OK. I will give you that, from here, not knowing all the facts. (I do not have time to read the entire story.) a felony might be a little harsh. But I stand behind my other comments. And would you quit referring to what they did as a "mistake". No one, from what I can tell, made a mistake. They did everything on purpose. No mistake.

 

[RaySun2Be]

They did everything on purpose. No mistake.

Can't argue with that. Mistake was a poor choice of words. Bad decisions, errors in judgement is closer to what I meant than mistake.

And I still say that kids, teens, and adults are notorious for making poor choices, bad decisions, errors in judgement. The smart ones learn from them. No one's perfect.

In summary:
1. The IT Admin was in over his/her head with the responsiblity of these laptops and made very poor choices as regards to the passwords and security of them.
2. The kids made poor choices in regards to following the policies and procedures of the laptop use, and voilated those policies. They should suffer APPROPRIATE consequences for those decisions. Felony charges are not what I consider appropriate IN THIS CASE.
3. The school administration also made poor choices in how to deal with and manage the laptop situation.

So a lot of bad decisions were made, but a few teenagers may pay dearly.

[EDIT]

I have some definite opinions about this particular subject but I feel it best to keep quiet. Let it suffice to say that I could not possibly agree with you more, Rich.

Oh come on, go ahead and give your opinions, OD. I think there is room for open discussion of different viewpoints, as long as we agree to keep it civil.

And sorry if I've come off a bit gruff today. I've had a killer headache all day, and no amount of Advil has been able to quash it.

 

[networkman]

Lend me your cane and I'll whack ya in the knees - you'll completely forget 'bout the pains in your head!

 

[RaySun2Be]

Originally posted by: networkman
Lend me your cane and I'll whack ya in the knees - you'll completely forget 'bout the pains in your head!

Sounds exactly like my Dad's remedies.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: RaySun2Be

They did everything on purpose. No mistake.

Can't argue with that. Mistake was a poor choice of words. Bad decisions, errors in judgement is closer to what I meant than mistake.

And I still say that kids, teens, and adults are notorious for making poor choices, bad decisions, errors in judgement. The smart ones learn from them. No one's perfect.

All bad judgements = Felony now

 

[Insidious]

(better late than never)

While I think the idea of felony charges is outrageous, I am among those who believe the kids need a 'slam dunk'.

I am so sick of people not taking responsibility for their own stupidity and yes.. malicious behaviors.

This was no innocent prank and people should stop making excuses for them. They signed an agreement, broke it and that makes them delinquents in my book. They should be treated as such.

-Sid

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Insidious
(better late than never)

While I think the idea of felony charges is outrageous, I am among those who believe the kids need a 'slam dunk'.

I am so sick of people not taking responsibility for their own stupidity and yes.. malicious behaviors.

This was no innocent prank and people should stop making excuses for them. They signed an agreement, broke it and that makes them delinquents in my book. They should be treated as such.

So they are "Felons" in your mind right along side murderers and rapists???