12 story apartment building suddenly collapses in Miami

[Amol S.]

From an article I read a while back Miami is sinking and climate change is already causing sunny day flooding. Miami is spending billions of dollars raising roads, etc. They say you won't recognize Miami in 30 years.

Basically they are turning Miami into how downtown Bombay was built by the British before independence, where the majority of the city was a fort surounding the city itself? I always wondered why the British even did that, because when India started to become independent and they tore down all the forts and bridges in Bombay, and nothing much happened.



From : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_George,_Bombay#/media/File:Bombay_fort.jpg

 

[brycejones]

Isn't HOA making millions in Florida due to population growth?

Home Owners Association which is an independent entity for each building or development. They don’t make millions they just charge members the amount necessary for common maintenance of the property. They are also led by members of the association.

 

[woolfe9998]

Number of missing now at 154, while death toll has risen to 4.

June 26, 2021 Florida building collapse news

Search and rescue efforts continue a day after a building in Surfside, Florida, partially collapsed. Follow here for the latest.

www.cnn.com

 

[MtnMan]

I read somewhere there is an underground parking garage under a portion (or all) of the part that collapsed.

Wouldn't and underground parking garage there be below sea level?

 

[MtnMan]

Isn't HOA making millions in Florida due to population growth?

HOA are just mini-governments for neighborhoods. The problem is they don't have to follow restrictions even a city government has to follow. They can pretty much dictate what color you have to paint your kitchen.

 

[dainthomas]

Wouldn't and underground parking garage there be below sea level?

Most (maybe all) buildings in Miami Beach with underground parking have sump pumps constantly running to keep the water out.

 

[MtnMan]

Most (maybe all) buildings in Miami Beach with underground parking have sump pumps constantly running to keep the water out.

Oh gee, what could go wrong with that... like in a power failure...

 

[HomerJS]

Heard story today property was sinking 2mm/year since the 90s. If you do the math in 30 years that's about 2.36 inches.

Is that enough to bring it down?

 

[woolfe9998]

Heard story today property was sinking 2mm/year since the 90s. If you do the math in 30 years that's about 2.36 inches.

Is that enough to bring it down?

Experts are saying it's a factor but probably not enough in and of itself.

 

[Leeea]

Wouldn't and underground parking garage there be below sea level?

yep

Most (maybe all) buildings in Miami Beach with underground parking have sump pumps constantly running to keep the water out.

these pumps have a secondary effect of eroding the area round them. The movement of water suspends the dirt/sand, which then gets pumped out with the water.

Oh gee, what could go wrong with that... like in a power failure...

oh, a power failure is the least of the problems caused by this. The constant movement of water by the pump triggers erosion if the drainage is not correctly installed or maintained. Since the building is settling (moving) regardless, the drain system will need maintenance or its design will be compromised.

There was at least one lawsuit about cracks in the building walls. This allows the egress of water carrying soil, which is then pumped away. Over time this could remove the soil from buildings foundation in an uneven manner via erosion.

If you ever had a wet basement, you can respect just how difficult this all can be to deal with. Imagine how hard it would be to keep water out of your basement if the water was at street level outside and the soil was completely saturated.

 

[BlueWeasel]

Heard story today property was sinking 2mm/year since the 90s. If you do the math in 30 years that's about 2.36 inches.

Is that enough to bring it down?

It's doubtful. That much differential settlement in columns would cause damage but not enough for a sudden catastrophic collapse.

 

[Amol S.]

HOA are just mini-governments for neighborhoods. The problem is they don't have to follow restrictions even a city government has to follow. They can pretty much dictate what color you have to paint your kitchen.

They can dictate, but you don't have to follow their orders. Usually they allow you to do what ever you want to do, if you are willing to pay up more money when buying the home, and putting in a whole lot of funding into the HOA.

By the way, I read somewhere that some state governments are planning to regulate the powers of the HOA.

 

[Amol S.]

Here's another view of the debris. That's called a pancake collapse. The bottom looks like a stack of pancake


It's doubtful. That much differential settlement in columns would cause damage but not enough for a sudden catastrophic collapse.

But then again, draging HVAC air conditioning units on the roof was enough to bring down an already nearly overloaded mega shopping mall in South Korea.

Sampoong Department Store collapse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[brycejones]

They can dictate, but you don't have to follow their orders. Usually they allow you to do what ever you want to do, if you are willing to pay up more money when buying the home, and putting in a whole lot of funding into the HOA.

By the way, I read somewhere that some state governments are planning to regulate the powers of the HOA.

Amol - You have no fucking clue about how HOAs work. They can fine you, take you to court, foreclose on your house if necessary to enforce their rules. There isn't a pay $500 extra and ignore the rules option in covenant communities.

Before you buy a house you need to educate yourself on how HOAs work and what the specific rules are if you're buying a house that has an HOA and if you're willing to live within those rules.

 

[MtnMan]

They can dictate, but you don't have to follow their orders. Usually they allow you to do what ever you want to do, if you are willing to pay up more money when buying the home, and putting in a whole lot of funding into the HOA.

By the way, I read somewhere that some state governments are planning to regulate the powers of the HOA.

There are some that probably do, however, many will levy fines, then when you don't pay, they can legally foreclose on your home. And that my friend is no where "allow you to what ever you want".

And that thing they disapprove of can be trivial, such as leaving your garage door open more than the allowed time, and that time is usually 5 - 10 minutes.

Want/need a pickup truck to tow a boat or camper? HOAs can prevent you from parking a pickup in your drive, gotta hide it in the garage. And forget the boat or camper, gotta store that at one of those self-storage places. Want to fly the American flag? Banned by some HOAs.

Look out to see someone with a ruler, measuring your grass? Allowable is 2.5", yours measures 2 3/4". You are in violation and will likely receive a notice of violation letter. ahh yes, smell the freedumb to do what you want?

 

[Jhhnn]

There will be endless speculation from people with authoritative sounding titles but the actual cause won't be known until the pile of rubble is transformed into a hole in the ground many weeks down the road. The rest of the complex may need to be demolished first.

 

[brycejones]

There will be endless speculation from people with authoritative sounding titles but the actual cause won't be known until the pile of rubble is transformed into a hole in the ground many weeks down the road. The rest of the complex may need to be demolished first.

Yep, let the experts sort it out once they have access to the actual evidence to understand what actually happened. Right now we can only squarely blame gravity.

 

[dank69]

I put this in the OT thread, might as well dupe it here:
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/missing-woman-made-ominous-phone-111802273.html

 

[dank69]

Heard story today property was sinking 2mm/year since the 90s. If you do the math in 30 years that's about 2.36 inches.

Is that enough to bring it down?

2.36" could be plenty if it's enough to pop rivets/welds in just the right places.

 

[woolfe9998]

They've already filed a class action lawsuit against the HOA, two days after while they're still picking through the rubble to find out what happened.

June 26, 2021 Florida building collapse news

Search and rescue efforts continue a day after a building in Surfside, Florida, partially collapsed. Follow here for the latest.

www.cnn.com

Where money is involved, lawyers don't like to wait. Even by that standard, this is fast.

 

[Matt390]

Just saw the video. Those 99 missing have got to be dead.

They might just be on vacation.

 

[Leeea]

There are some that probably do, however, many will levy fines, then when you don't pay, they can legally foreclose on your home. And that my friend is no where "allow you to what ever you want".

And that thing they disapprove of can be trivial, such as leaving your garage door open more than the allowed time, and that time is usually 5 - 10 minutes.

Want/need a pickup truck to tow a boat or camper? HOAs can prevent you from parking a pickup in your drive, gotta hide it in the garage. And forget the boat or camper, gotta store that at one of those self-storage places. Want to fly the American flag? Banned by some HOAs.

Look out to see someone with a ruler, measuring your grass? Allowable is 2.5", yours measures 2 3/4". You are in violation and will likely receive a notice of violation letter. ahh yes, smell the freedumb to do what you want?

Rule A: read the bylaws before you buy. Your not going to change them.
Rule B: live by the condo code, if nobody complains, it is all good. Ex: My condo says no TV antennas the roof. I installed a 2" tall TV antenna. Nobody noticed, nobody cared, was not forced to remove it.
Rule C: if someone complains to you, deal with the problem before it escalates. Be sympathetic.
Rule D: help your neighbors, be talkative. If your friendly issues will get resolved before they are made "official".

Oh, and if they are measuring your grass? You FFed up. You pissed off someone you shouldn't. Your the problem now, enemy of the HoA. Go get your shit together, apologize, and sell when you can.

 

[Meghan54]

Home Owners Association which is an independent entity for each building or development. They don’t make millions they just charge members the amount necessary for common maintenance of the property. They are also led by members of the association.

Speaking of an HOA, did anyone notice the monthly HOA fee for that linked apt that sold in this bldg last week? $850/mo. Damned expensive HOA.

 

[MtnMan]

Rule A: read the bylaws before you buy. Your not going to change them.
Rule B: live by the condo code, if nobody complains, it is all good. Ex: My condo says no TV antennas the roof. I installed a 2" tall TV antenna. Nobody noticed, nobody cared, was not forced to remove it.
Rule C: if someone complains to you, deal with the problem before it escalates. Be sympathetic.
Rule D: help your neighbors, be talkative. If your friendly issues will get resolved before they are made "official".

Oh, and if they are measuring your grass? You FFed up. You pissed off someone you shouldn't. Your the problem now, enemy of the HoA. Go get your shit together, apologize, and sell when you can.

Uh, fuck all of that....

As for someone measuring your grass, they just may not like the fact you drive a newer car than they do... That type of person wakes up every day with the goal of being offended by someone, and most can say "mission accomplished" by the end of the day.

 

[weblooker2021]

Building do not just collapse. Something else is going on here that will be known in the future.