12 people dead, 25 wounded in England shooting spree

[nick1985]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37467424/ns/world_news-europe/?GT1=43001


Sweet gun control. Didn't that criminal know guns were illegal?!?! What a jackass!

 

[Vette73]

So people lose their life and you troll to it. Yep just nick being nick.

The number of deaths in Britain from gunshot wounds has fallen to a 20-year low despite concerns about levels of violent crime.

Most of the 42 gun-related deaths last year...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/britain-records-18-fall-in-gun-deaths-1232069.html

 

[daishi5]

So people lose their life and you troll to it. Yep just nick being nick.

The number of deaths in Britain from gunshot wounds has fallen to a 20-year low despite concerns about levels of violent crime.

Most of the 42 gun-related deaths last year

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/britain-records-18-fall-in-gun-deaths-1232069.html

Is it really so much better that people are being assaulted and killed with things that are not guns? Britain's violent crime has been rising while its gun violence has fallen. Or are you going to assume that only the positive outcomes are a result of their gun control, and every negative must come from another source?

 

[ilkhan]

[MG]http://www.gun-control-network.org/International.gif[/IMG]


The number of deaths in Britain from gunshot wounds has fallen to a 20-year low despite concerns about levels of violent crime.

Most of the 42 gun-related deaths last year...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/britain-records-18-fall-in-gun-deaths-1232069.html

Do you have a chart for murders on the Y-axis?

 

[Blackjack200]

Is it really so much better that people are being assaulted and killed with things that are not guns? Britain's violent crime has been rising while its gun violence has fallen. Or are you going to assume that only the positive outcomes are a result of their gun control, and every negative must come from another source?

The OP implied that strict gun laws in the UK left its citizens vulnerable to attack by those that do have them, and Marlin showed that this idea is totally bankrupt. Pretty simple in my book.

 

[MJinZ]

Is it really so much better that people are being assaulted and killed with things that are not guns? Britain's violent crime has been rising while its gun violence has fallen. Or are you going to assume that only the positive outcomes are a result of their gun control, and every negative must come from another source?

Of course it's better.

Can you think about it and explain to the class why?

 

[zsdersw]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37467424/ns/world_news-europe/?GT1=43001


Sweet gun control. Didn't that criminal know guns were illegal?!?! What a jackass!

404 Argument Against Strict Gun Laws Not Found.

Personally, I don't favor many restrictions on gun ownership, but that doesn't mean I believe these guns contain the "magic bullets" to drastically reduce or prevent violent crime.

 

[spacejamz]

Of course it's better.

Can you think about it and explain to the class why?

so guns deaths go down and knife deaths go up....up to the point where they wanted to ban certain knives....

yeah...that sounds much better unless you were one of the knife victims...

 

[MJinZ]

so guns deaths go down and knife deaths go up....up to the point where they wanted to ban certain knives....

yeah...that sounds much better unless you were one of the knife victims...

Yes, it's much better. Can you explain why?

 

[spacejamz]

404 Argument Against Strict Gun Laws Not Found.

Personally, I don't favor many restrictions on gun ownership, but that doesn't mean I believe these guns contain the "magic bullets" to drastically reduce or prevent violent crime.

Isn't the whole point of having a handgun ban to prevent this from occurring???

 

[spacejamz]

Yes, it's much better. Can you explain why?

Please do tell...the suspense is killing me (no pun intended)...

 

[highland145]

"The UK numbers make Washington, D.C. look good."

• New York has a population of 8 million, London 7 million
• London's crime rate is about 7 times that of New York
• Police budgets are comparable
• New York has 40% more cops on the beat

http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/2007/01/crime-in-uk-versus-crime-in-us.html

 

[daishi5]

Of course it's better.

Can you think about it and explain to the class why?

Because, now only young healthy men can kill people. Forcing the people who are older, female, weak or infirm to submit to the will of those who are physically stronger than them. It is a return to the better days where young men did not have to fear robbing a woman because she is not allowed to own anything capable of stopping him. A pure meritocracy based upon the strength of ones own arms, allowing those with the best physical prowess to prove the weaker members of society are not deserving of safety when the police are not there to protect them.
/sarcasm

I don't have it with me at work, so I will have to look it up later, but as I recall the number of people murdered per capita has been climbing in Britain, and their rates of other violent crimes, such as robbery, hot burglaries, and sexual assault have surpassed those of the United States. The only place we still have it worse then the British is our murder rate, which is largely due to our drug problem.

 

[spacejamz]

Because, now only young healthy men can kill people. Forcing the people who are older, female, weak or infirm to submit to the will of those who are physically stronger than them. It is a return to the better days where young men did not have to fear robbing a woman because she is not allowed to own anything capable of stopping him. A pure meritocracy based upon the strength of ones own arms, allowing those with the best physical prowess to prove the weaker members of society are not deserving of safety when the police are not there to protect them.
/sarcasm

I don't have it with me at work, so I will have to look it up later, but as I recall the number of people murdered per capita has been climbing in Britain, and their rates of other violent crimes, such as robbery, hot burglaries, and sexual assault have surpassed those of the United States. The only place we still have it worse then the British is our murder rate, which is largely due to our drug problem.

Still waiting for the explanation from MJ about why this situation is good....

 

[zsdersw]

Isn't the whole point of having a handgun ban to prevent this from occurring???

The point, for advocates, is reduction, not elimination. No one expects handgun bans to completely eliminate or prevent gun violence.

 

[MJinZ]

Still waiting for the explanation from MJ about why this situation is good....

Why do we not arm everyone with fully automatic machine guns? How about high powered nuclear weapons?

Can you explain why this analogy will answer your original question?

 

[nick1985]

The number of deaths in Britain from gunshot wounds has fallen to a 20-year low despite concerns about levels of violent crime.

Myth: Britain has strict gun control and a low crime rate

Fact: Since gun banning has escalated in the UK, the rate of crime – especially violent
crime – has risen.

Fact: Ironically, firearm use in crimes has doubled in the decade since handguns were
banned.46

Fact: Street robberies soared 28% in 2001. Violent crime was up 11%, murders up 4%,
and rapes are up 14%.48

Fact: This trend continues in 2004 with a 10% increase in street crime, 8% increase in
muggings, and a 22% increase in robberies.

Fact: “... [There is] nothing in the statistics for England and Wales to suggest that either
the stricter controls on handguns prior to 1997 or the ban imposed since have controlled access to such firearms by criminals.”50

Fact: Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is flawed. In America, a gun
crime is recorded as a gun crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final
disposition (a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun
crimes, grossly undercounting the amount of gun crime there.51 To make matters worse,
British law enforcement has been exposed for falsifying criminal reports to create falsely
lower crime figures, in part to preserve tourism.52

Fact: A continuing parliamentary inquiry into the growing number of black market
weapons has concluded that there are more than three million illegally held firearms in
circulation – double the number believed to have been held 10 years ago – and that
criminals are more willing than ever to use them. One in three criminals under the age of
25 possesses or has access to a firearm. 53

Fact: Handgun homicides in England and Wales reached an all-time high in 2000, years
after a virtual ban on private handgun ownership. More than 3,000 crimes involving
handguns were recorded in 1999-2000, including the 42 homicides, 310 cases of
attempted murder, 2,561 robberies and 204 burglaries.54

Fact: Handguns were used in 3,685 offenses in 2000 compared with 2,648 in 1997, an
increase of 40%.55

Fact: Between 1997 and 1999, there were 429 murders in London, the highest two-year
figure for more than 10 years – nearly two-thirds of those involved firearms – in a
country that has virtually banned private firearm ownership.56

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf

 

[Infohawk]

There's a bigger issue than gun control: is there anyway society can spot these violent anti-social people before they do harm?

 

[MJinZ]

Because, now only young healthy men can kill people. Forcing the people who are older, female, weak or infirm to submit to the will of those who are physically stronger than them. It is a return to the better days where young men did not have to fear robbing a woman because she is not allowed to own anything capable of stopping him. A pure meritocracy based upon the strength of ones own arms, allowing those with the best physical prowess to prove the weaker members of society are not deserving of safety when the police are not there to protect them.
/sarcasm

I don't have it with me at work, so I will have to look it up later, but as I recall the number of people murdered per capita has been climbing in Britain, and their rates of other violent crimes, such as robbery, hot burglaries, and sexual assault have surpassed those of the United States. The only place we still have it worse then the British is our murder rate, which is largely due to our drug problem.

Drugs cause murder?

Wat.

I think you meant to say Money causes Murder.

Which is to say, humans causes murder.

 

[JSt0rm]

why cant we have a thread about the fucking STORY? I'm so sick of the gun control debate.

 

[nick1985]

why cant we have a thread about the fucking STORY? I'm so sick of the gun control debate.

Me too. Its always facts vs. blind ignorance.

 

[nick1985]

The OP implied that strict gun laws in the UK left its citizens vulnerable to attack by those that do have them, and Marlin showed that this idea is totally bankrupt. Pretty simple in my book.

Marlin didnt show jack. Scroll up a few posts.

 

[JSt0rm]

no its a wedge issue that's used by both parties to get out the vote. You are all sheep.

 

[MJinZ]

Myth: Britain has strict gun control and a low crime rate

Fact: Since gun banning has escalated in the UK, the rate of crime – especially violent
crime – has risen.

Fact: Ironically, firearm use in crimes has doubled in the decade since handguns were
banned.46

Fact: Street robberies soared 28% in 2001. Violent crime was up 11%, murders up 4%,
and rapes are up 14%.48

Fact: This trend continues in 2004 with a 10% increase in street crime, 8% increase in
muggings, and a 22% increase in robberies.

Fact: “... [There is] nothing in the statistics for England and Wales to suggest that either
the stricter controls on handguns prior to 1997 or the ban imposed since have controlled access to such firearms by criminals.”50

Fact: Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is flawed. In America, a gun
crime is recorded as a gun crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final
disposition (a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun
crimes, grossly undercounting the amount of gun crime there.51 To make matters worse,
British law enforcement has been exposed for falsifying criminal reports to create falsely
lower crime figures, in part to preserve tourism.52

Fact: A continuing parliamentary inquiry into the growing number of black market
weapons has concluded that there are more than three million illegally held firearms in
circulation – double the number believed to have been held 10 years ago – and that
criminals are more willing than ever to use them. One in three criminals under the age of
25 possesses or has access to a firearm. 53

Fact: Handgun homicides in England and Wales reached an all-time high in 2000, years
after a virtual ban on private handgun ownership. More than 3,000 crimes involving
handguns were recorded in 1999-2000, including the 42 homicides, 310 cases of
attempted murder, 2,561 robberies and 204 burglaries.54

Fact: Handguns were used in 3,685 offenses in 2000 compared with 2,648 in 1997, an
increase of 40%.55

Fact: Between 1997 and 1999, there were 429 murders in London, the highest two-year
figure for more than 10 years – nearly two-thirds of those involved firearms – in a
country that has virtually banned private firearm ownership.56

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf

The only myth you are misinformed about the the relation between gun control and crime ....

If you are a fucked up country, that is the cause of your crime. It has little to do with how you get access to your weapon of choice.

In a Utopia, whether everyone has free access to guns or no access to guns would not make a single difference to the amount of crime.

 

[nick1985]

If you are a fucked up country, that is the cause of your crime. It has little to do with how you get access to your weapon of choice.

I agree 100%. Which is why gun bans are silly.


"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." -- George Washington