11 States now have more on Welfare than working

[Hayabusa Rider]

I wouldnt call your current system for national healthcare. Its also simply an insurance system for private companies to milk.

What country is outside the normal?

That doesn't say much at all other than we pay our specialists more than you do and that we make more money on average.

Now how do you cut a trillion dollars off by cutting physician pay? Can you tell me why someone should go and invest a significant portion of their lifetime to get paid an average wage?

Edit- looking at that graph doesn't even say that. All it says is that we pay more. Well we know that. You claim that we can cut half by letting Republicans and Democrats have it to fix.

So what do you have for me as a practitioner to help me do my job better?

 

[WHAMPOM]

But why didnt the US change like all the other industrialized nations? The eurozone to compare, dont have the same issue and got a trade surplus.

I have a feeling its related to unskilled workers. Even China is outsourcing the lowest jobs to Vietnam and Myanmar because it aint worth making it in China nymore. They want the higher paying jobs.

NO, it is factory owners refusing to pay higher wages for those jobs. So they export those jobs where people will work for those low wages.

 

[ShintaiDK]

That doesn't say much at all other than we pay our specialists more than you do and that we make more money on average.

Now how do you cut a trillion dollars off by cutting physician pay? Can you tell me why someone should go and invest a significant portion of their lifetime to get paid an average wage?

Who says I want to cut pay for the working people?

But right now you are paying 20$ for a service that should cost around 10$.

 

[Texashiker]

But why didnt the US change like all the other industrialized nations? The eurozone to compare, dont have the same issue and got a trade surplus.

Lets not bring the eurozone into this, yall are having to bailout your members.

How is the US supposed to change? Companies like walmart exploit low wage workers. Companies offshore to lower their tax burden, factories close which shifts taxes to the people instead of on businesses.

I imagine one thing that is different between the US and the rest of the world, is our greed and lust for money.

Most people are not happy to live their lives, they have to have the best of the best. Bragging rights about their new car, the size of their house, how their kids got into a elite private school,,, and no on.

I see youtube videos about parts of europe and russia, people living life and having a good time.

To be honest, I am envious of the rest of the world. I hate unbridled capitalism.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Lets not bring the eurozone into this, yall are having to bailout your members.

How is the US supposed to change? Companies like walmart exploit low wage workers. Companies offshore to lower their tax burden, factories close which shifts taxes to the people instead of on businesses.

I imagine one thing that is different between the US and the rest of the world, is our greed and lust for money.

Most people are not happy to live their lives, they have to have the best of the best. Bragging rights about their new car, the size of their house, how their kids got into a elite private school,,, and no on.

I see youtube videos about parts of europe and russia, people living life and having a good time.

To be honest, I am envious of the rest of the world. I hate unbridled capitalism.

I can tell you the main difference, its education. For the US its primary the lack of free education. And not putting people that are jobless and on welfare back to the schoolbench.

Unskilled jobs will only return as very low payed jobs that now has to compete with Vietnam and Myanmar. Forget China, they already moved on.

 

[Texashiker]

I can tell you the main difference, its education. For the US its primary the lack of free education. And not putting people that are jobless and on welfare back to the schoolbench.

Unskilled jobs will only return as very low payed jobs that now has to compete with Vietnam and Myanmar. Forget China, they already moved on.

The thing with our welfare state, there is no program to get people trained and back to work.

My wife and I know a family who has been receiving welfare for around 20, maybe 23 years. One of the kids had a child. So now its the grandmother, adult child, and grandchild all on some kind of welfare.

If we had some kind of state funded higher education system, that was mandatory for people on welfare, provided free child care so single parents could get job training, a lot of our problems would be fixed.

But then again, there is no reason why walmart can not pay a liveable wage.

 

[piasabird]

Cant wait for the riots when the money runs out.

Need some slave labor work camps.

 

[ShintaiDK]

The thing with our welfare state, there is no program to get people trained and back to work.

My wife and I know a family who has been receiving welfare for around 20, maybe 23 years. One of the kids had a child. So now its the grandmother, adult child, and grandchild all on some kind of welfare.

If we had some kind of state funded higher education system, that was mandatory for people on welfare, provided free child care so single parents could get job training, a lot of our problems would be fixed.

But then again, there is no reason why walmart can not pay a liveable wage.

Thats why the country is in dire needs of actual reforms. But considering the "idelogical gridlock" plus the old ghost about "scary socialism". I just doubt the US is ready for it.

But you are completely right else. Here in Denmark you enter activation if you get on public welfare due to unemployment. You are called down to the local jobcenter and a plan is made for how to get you back to work. This might be anything from job application help to reeducation and a new set of skills. Because if you dont keep reeducating throughout your entire worktime. You get obsolete and can do lawn jobs for 5$ an hour or something.

Other reasons for losing jobs can be medical reasons. So free state healthcare is just as important. Plus it also helps prevent people from falling out of the job market in the first place.

We expect here in Denmark that around 59% of all young people will have what we call longer/higher education. And 27% will have a candidate degree. Even modern farming today requires a few years of education.

But besides all this, the housewifes still need to be reduced alot 😉
66% girls vs 53% boys here will get a longer/higher education.

When Walmart cant pick and choose anyone they like. The unskilled wages will go up too. Here in Denmark you get around 20$ an hour for flipping burgers.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Who says I want to cut pay for the working people?

But right now you are paying 20$ for a service that should cost around 10$.

All you are doing is throwing around numbers.

Find a solution, and that does not mean giving things to the Reps and Dems. Describe our situation in detail, what our differences are between you and us for example in terms of population, local and national demographics, us as consumers, and propose a means of dealing with it. Again that does not mean handing it over, but specifics.

Yes there is a point to this.

 

[ShintaiDK]

All you are doing is throwing around numbers.

Find a solution, and that does not mean giving things to the Reps and Dems. Describe our situation in detail, what our differences are between you and us for example in terms of population, local and national demographics, us as consumers, and propose a means of dealing with it. Again that does not mean handing it over, but specifics.

Yes there is a point to this.

The solution for the healthcare is simple. Nationalize it so you take the huge private margins out of it. Right now healthcare in the US is public loss, private profit. There is still room for private hospitals for the people who wish to pay for it. But everyone should have access to public run healthcare and hospitals. It could for example be a state job and not a federal job to run the hospitals.

A little example:
http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/30/profitable-hospitals-hca-healthcare-business-mayo-clinic.html
http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/...ls-saw-record-profit-increase-2007/2008-11-12
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/business/us-warns-hospitals-on-medicare-billing.html?_r=0

Its just one of those few areas that are terrible to run in the private sector.

 

[DrPizza]

According to that spreadsheet, only 67,327 people entered the workforce in new york over an entire year?

2011- 11 - 9,513,011

2012 - 11 - 9,580,338

According to wikipedia, New York had a population growth of around 2 million people.

2010 census - 19,378,102

2012 estimate - 19,570,261

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_growth_rate

How does your population go up on average around 1 million per year, but only 67,327 people entered the workforce?

Ok, my math was off again. That is why I did not go into engineering.

Didn't go into engineering? I'm surprised you can even balance a checkbook. It's very basic arithmetic - 4th or 5th grade stuff. (Well, maybe not in Texas - it might be big school stuff down there.)

As stated, it's 192,159. So, 35% of the new population entered the work force. Do you think the entire population gain was people between the ages of 18 and 65, or might some of them been, oh, I don't know, BORN. Not to mention, a relatively large number of people were at least temporarily unemployed at about that time as a result of a hurricane. So, there was a short term increase in unemployment at about the time that stat was taken.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The solution for the healthcare is simple. Nationalize it so you take the huge private margins out of it. Right now healthcare in the US is public loss, private profit. There is still room for private hospitals for the people who wish to pay for it. But everyone should have access to public run healthcare and hospitals. It could for example be a state job and not a federal job to run the hospitals.

A little example:
http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/30/profitable-hospitals-hca-healthcare-business-mayo-clinic.html
http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/...ls-saw-record-profit-increase-2007/2008-11-12
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/business/us-warns-hospitals-on-medicare-billing.html?_r=0

Its just one of those few areas that are terrible to run in the private sector.

No. That does not fix anything. There are systemic problems but there are functional problems as well. "Give it to the government". We did that in spades in NY with Medicaid and it's destroying us. It's THE spending issue, more than anything else.

It controls reimbursement so why is it so expensive? It should cost less.

 

[Ausm]

Didn't go into engineering? I'm surprised you can even balance a checkbook. It's very basic arithmetic - 4th or 5th grade stuff. (Well, maybe not in Texas - it might be big school stuff down there.)

As stated, it's 192,159. So, 35% of the new population entered the work force. Do you think the entire population gain was people between the ages of 18 and 65, or might some of them been, oh, I don't know, BORN. Not to mention, a relatively large number of people were at least temporarily unemployed at about that time as a result of a hurricane. So, there was a short term increase in unemployment at about the time that stat was taken.

Most likely a 3rd year of College course. :biggrin:

 

[Texashiker]

As stated, it's 192,159. So, 35% of the new population entered the work force. Do you think the entire population gain was people between the ages of 18 and 65, or might some of them been, oh, I don't know, BORN. Not to mention, a relatively large number of people were at least temporarily unemployed at about that time as a result of a hurricane. So, there was a short term increase in unemployment at about the time that stat was taken.

I think 35% is a balanced number.

As for your harsh words, I expect no less from a teacher.

But you are completely right else. Here in Denmark you enter activation if you get on public welfare due to unemployment. You are called down to the local jobcenter and a plan is made for how to get you back to work. This might be anything from job application help to reeducation and a new set of skills. Because if you dont keep reeducating throughout your entire worktime. You get obsolete and can do lawn jobs for 5$ an hour or something.

We need something like that here.

 

[ElFenix]

Life expectancy for those born in 1947 is less than 70. Note that this is biased by higher infant mortality at the time, but people are not greatly outliving their social security contributions on average if they pay for 5 years worth.

at birth, yes. now that they are 65? 79. so anyone who is still around at 65 right now is outliving their contributions by 200%.

 

[DCal430]

I'm going to have to call bullshit on the OP's thread title.

New York: in November, there were 8,786,152 employed out of a workforce of 9,580,338. Eliminate retirees & children of those who are employed, and you're FAR FAR beyond half of the state's population. If you call someone who is 70 who is receiving social security payments, after paying into the system for more than half their life, then there's something pretty dishonest about your motivations for the claim in the OP.

http://www.labor.ny.gov/stats/laus_sa.xls

This bullshit article is basically calling teachers, firefighters, policemen and other government workers well fare recipients. They are all being included in the list of takers and NOT makers.

 

[DCal430]

I am a public sector employee, I am NOT funded by any tax dollar, we are self funded by the service we provide to society.

 

[Engineer]

The most significant reason for all our economic problems is outsourcing. Giving either corporations or government more isn't addressing that issue.

Give that man a prize!!! (a Chinese made teddy bear!)

 

[Ausm]

at birth, yes. now that they are 65? 79. so anyone who is still around at 65 right now is outliving their contributions by 300%.

Raise the cap on SS deductions from 110K and the problem would be solved.

 

[ShintaiDK]

No. That does not fix anything. There are systemic problems but there are functional problems as well. "Give it to the government". We did that in spades in NY with Medicaid and it's destroying us. It's THE spending issue, more than anything else.

It controls reimbursement so why is it so expensive? It should cost less.

You obviously didnt read my post.

 

[Texashiker]

The most significant reason for all our economic problems is outsourcing. Giving either corporations or government more isn't addressing that issue.

What free trade is going to do, is establish a socialist (or communist) system under the disguise of being a republic.

Our manufacturing base is being outsourced, which leaves millions of people with no other option besides welfare.

I am going to take it for granted that most people want to work and pay their own way. Once someone gets on welfare, once they hit bottom, there is no safety net to get them back on their feet.

What is the difference in someone using food stamps, and someone in communist russia waiting in line for food? Both programs are regulated by the government.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

You should be happy about this. Its exactly what the left wants, everyone completely dependent on government.

If that's what the Left wants, then the Right must dream of a society where 1 or 2% of the populace will be very rich while living off the backs of a de facto enslaved 98% that is poor. The right must be pretty happy with the current trend.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The south has a very large hand in this too.

Kentucky, South Carolina, Mississippi and Alabama are staunch Republican States yet they are just as guilty.

<BUZZZZZZZZZZZZ> Wrong. Perhaps you should realize WHY some of those states ARE Republican.

First, I bring you: http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_nhblack.gif

Guess who is #1 for taking welfare in terms of % of race? Ding ding. Did you ever think that maybe it's the democrat portion in the red states that contribute the largest portion? If you don't believe in truth - which many liberals don't - feel free to look up facts for yourself.

Second, it has already been said that the liberal blue states are MUCH more populated - so the tax dollars are certainly there, especially considering much of the EVIL RICH 1%ERS live in the area. The problem is clearly that the liberal suck-the-government-teet-more-more-I-SAID-MORE!!! are there as well 😉

 

[Joepublic2]

You should get a refund from your place of education.

Less people working means less goods and less production output.

Yeah, maybe in an 1700s economic model where everything is built by hand by artisans. Not in today's world where a largely unsupervised machine spits out the same good, except at a higher quality and 100,000 times faster.

Didn't go into engineering? I'm surprised you can even balance a checkbook. It's very basic arithmetic - 4th or 5th grade stuff. (Well, maybe not in Texas - it might be big school stuff down there.)

Kiss my fat ass (and perfect SAT score), yankee scum. 😀

 

[DrPizza]

As for your harsh words, I expect no less from a teacher.

Yep, "You're off by 500% Johnny, but that was a really good try! <pat on the back and hug>. Next time, try pressing the minus button on the calculator when you want to find the difference between two numbers", isn't that effective.