10-23-08 How the Rich Cheat On Their Taxes

[Genx87]

I doubt much of anything Obama pushes through will really stop the flow upward of money. Remember we have progressed our tax system so 50% of the people dont pay. Under Obama the % of people who wont pay is going to grow. This means a govt paid for by the rich. You think the rich are going to look out for the best interest of the rest of the nation when they are footing the bill?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I doubt much of anything Obama pushes through will really stop the flow upward of money. Remember we have progressed our tax system so 50% of the people dont pay. Under Obama the % of people who wont pay is going to grow. This means a govt paid for by the rich.

You think the rich are going to look out for the best interest of the rest of the nation when they are footing the bill?

So nothing will change

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genx87
I doubt much of anything Obama pushes through will really stop the flow upward of money. Remember we have progressed our tax system so 50% of the people dont pay. Under Obama the % of people who wont pay is going to grow. This means a govt paid for by the rich.

You think the rich are going to look out for the best interest of the rest of the nation when they are footing the bill?

So nothing will change

You want them to leave so why should they give a rats ass about you? Because youre (self imposed) underprivileged? Please.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genx87
I doubt much of anything Obama pushes through will really stop the flow upward of money. Remember we have progressed our tax system so 50% of the people dont pay. Under Obama the % of people who wont pay is going to grow. This means a govt paid for by the rich.

You think the rich are going to look out for the best interest of the rest of the nation when they are footing the bill?

So nothing will change

So, you don't believe Obama is going to change things? He's rich you know. Why do you hate America? When are you leaving?

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
Any money that the rich get to keep, they invest it in other forms or spends it.

The trickle down effect creates jobs and stimulates the economy. It is not fair to the poor people, but they actually indirectly benefit it.

Trickle down does not exist... see the past 8 years... Real wages have gone down consistently despite rich tax breaks.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Can we seriously put the final nail in the coffin for trickle-down economics and its associated position against progressive taxation? The declining economic middle class is beginning to wake up against this "class warfare" that has been fought against them for the past 20 years or so... Besides, it isn't news to us that the rich cheat more on their taxes simply because they have the resources to effectively do so. If the lower classes could cheat to the same extent, they would. Wealth begets wealth, and poverty begets poverty. Sure, there are exceptions, but this is the overall rule for Americans despite their individual knowledge and ambitions. Social mobility in the USA has taken a nosedive as the tax code has become less progressive...

As has been stated before, most middle income Americans dont use what tax breaks they DO have. Thats no one's fault but their own. Im middle class and my taxable income ends up being about 25 sometimes 30% of my gross....

That does nothing to negate what he actually said. One cheats, the other can't.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: fallout man
The middle income folks would have a net gain through tax-breaks if they hired an accountant.

That being said, the government's income would suffer if all the stupid "po' people" actually took advantage of the pathetic tax breaks they are allowed. I will bet that the average middle-income family living from paycheck to paycheck has nowhere near the deductibles and loopholes a millionaire investore can take advantage of.

I could dig up the figures, but I think there have been threads here already showing how millionaires and corporations end up paying around 10-15% less taxes than the average middle income family.

Nor do they need them. Middle income doesnt need more tax breaks on top of the ones they dont already use!

(Now lets watch someone quote me as saying middle class doesnt need tax breaks )

They don't need to cheat on their taxes because some undocumented amount according to you don't use existing ones.. and therefore it is ok that the rich cheat?

 

[Imdmn04]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
Any money that the rich get to keep, they invest it in other forms or spends it.

The trickle down effect creates jobs and stimulates the economy. It is not fair to the poor people, but they actually indirectly benefit it.

Trickle down does not exist... see the past 8 years... Real wages have gone down consistently despite rich tax breaks.

How do you know if there wasn't a rich tax cut, that the real wage would have gone down even more than it has now?

Real wage has gone down because America is less competitive in producing output and the rest of the world is catching up.

Where do you think the money goes when a rich person keeps it from taxes? Have you heard of a Gates Foundation? Have you heard of extravagant spending on private jets, yachts and beach houses? You do know all of those spending, create jobs right?

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
Any money that the rich get to keep, they invest it in other forms or spends it.

The trickle down effect creates jobs and stimulates the economy. It is not fair to the poor people, but they actually indirectly benefit it.

Trickle down does not exist... see the past 8 years... Real wages have gone down consistently despite rich tax breaks.

How do you know if there wasn't a rich tax cut, that the real wage would have gone down even more than it has now?

Real wage has gone down because America is less competitive in producing output and the rest of the world is catching up.

Where do you think the money goes when a rich person keeps it from taxes? Have you heard of a Gates Foundation? Have you heard of extravagant spending on private jets, yachts and beach houses? You do know all of those spending, create jobs right?

So rich people cheating on their taxes is a good thing. If they cheat more, then they'll have more to spend.

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TallBill
I just happen to be very optimistic on life in general.

Perhaps its because I have not been hurt bad enough to feel like I've ever been wronged.

Then don't cha think you're not qualified to comment?

Nope! I'm all for mandatory qualifications to comment though because you'll fail like the Hindenburg!

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Can we seriously put the final nail in the coffin for trickle-down economics and its associated position against progressive taxation? The declining economic middle class is beginning to wake up against this "class warfare" that has been fought against them for the past 20 years or so... Besides, it isn't news to us that the rich cheat more on their taxes simply because they have the resources to effectively do so. If the lower classes could cheat to the same extent, they would. Wealth begets wealth, and poverty begets poverty. Sure, there are exceptions, but this is the overall rule for Americans despite their individual knowledge and ambitions. Social mobility in the USA has taken a nosedive as the tax code has become less progressive...

As has been stated before, most middle income Americans dont use what tax breaks they DO have. Thats no one's fault but their own. Im middle class and my taxable income ends up being about 25 sometimes 30% of my gross....

That does nothing to negate what he actually said. One cheats, the other can't.

how can't they?

Hookers and crack dealers don't report their income....guess what?....they are cheating the tax man.

So yeah...the poor can cheat the system.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: fallout man
The middle income folks would have a net gain through tax-breaks if they hired an accountant.

That being said, the government's income would suffer if all the stupid "po' people" actually took advantage of the pathetic tax breaks they are allowed. I will bet that the average middle-income family living from paycheck to paycheck has nowhere near the deductibles and loopholes a millionaire investore can take advantage of.

I could dig up the figures, but I think there have been threads here already showing how millionaires and corporations end up paying around 10-15% less taxes than the average middle income family.

Nor do they need them. Middle income doesnt need more tax breaks on top of the ones they dont already use!

(Now lets watch someone quote me as saying middle class doesnt need tax breaks )

They don't need to cheat on their taxes because some undocumented amount according to you don't use existing ones.. and therefore it is ok that the rich cheat?

If I had that amount of money (which I technically do), and fell in that tax rate, and had an opoortunity to keep my money offshore or tied up in a shell corp to protect it from further taxation, I would (and will). In a heartbeat. You call it cheating, I call it self preservation. Matter of viewpoint.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
Any money that the rich get to keep, they invest it in other forms or spends it.

The trickle down effect creates jobs and stimulates the economy. It is not fair to the poor people, but they actually indirectly benefit it.

Trickle down does not exist... see the past 8 years... Real wages have gone down consistently despite rich tax breaks.

How do you know if there wasn't a rich tax cut, that the real wage would have gone down even more than it has now?

Real wage has gone down because America is less competitive in producing output and the rest of the world is catching up.

Where do you think the money goes when a rich person keeps it from taxes? Have you heard of a Gates Foundation? Have you heard of extravagant spending on private jets, yachts and beach houses? You do know all of those spending, create jobs right?

Not to mention how much of that money goes towards philanthropy.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Can we seriously put the final nail in the coffin for trickle-down economics and its associated position against progressive taxation? The declining economic middle class is beginning to wake up against this "class warfare" that has been fought against them for the past 20 years or so... Besides, it isn't news to us that the rich cheat more on their taxes simply because they have the resources to effectively do so. If the lower classes could cheat to the same extent, they would. Wealth begets wealth, and poverty begets poverty. Sure, there are exceptions, but this is the overall rule for Americans despite their individual knowledge and ambitions. Social mobility in the USA has taken a nosedive as the tax code has become less progressive...

As has been stated before, most middle income Americans dont use what tax breaks they DO have. Thats no one's fault but their own. Im middle class and my taxable income ends up being about 25 sometimes 30% of my gross....

That does nothing to negate what he actually said. One cheats, the other can't.

how can't they?

Hookers and crack dealers don't report their income....guess what?....they are cheating the tax man.

So yeah...the poor can cheat the system.

Not to mention waiters...bartenders....etc. There is no way the majority report all of their income.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: fallout man
The middle income folks would have a net gain through tax-breaks if they hired an accountant.

That being said, the government's income would suffer if all the stupid "po' people" actually took advantage of the pathetic tax breaks they are allowed. I will bet that the average middle-income family living from paycheck to paycheck has nowhere near the deductibles and loopholes a millionaire investore can take advantage of.

I could dig up the figures, but I think there have been threads here already showing how millionaires and corporations end up paying around 10-15% less taxes than the average middle income family.

Nor do they need them. Middle income doesnt need more tax breaks on top of the ones they dont already use!

(Now lets watch someone quote me as saying middle class doesnt need tax breaks )

They don't need to cheat on their taxes because some undocumented amount according to you don't use existing ones.. and therefore it is ok that the rich cheat?

So whats yopur solution? Prosecute them? Are you willing to back tax and prosecute those low and middle income wage earners who wait tables? I mean everyone from the part time Denny's waitor to the guy making 80k/yr at Ruth's Chris. You gonna apply the same test?

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I missed this back in October probably because caught up in the push for McCain to either tie at 269 or win by like 2.

What push? the one you made up in your lonely mind?

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Ryan711

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
The rich want to keep more of the money they WORKED their ass off for?

What a crazy concept!!

Show me how hard the CEO of the likes of AIG etc worked for their millions upon millions.

What about doctors lawyers, dentists. You know, CEOs are a very small percentage of those in the top tax bracket

What about them?

Tax 'em till they bleed! Those bastard doctors should be living in cardboard boxes!

We should socialize doctors pay.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
You didn't find any taxbreaks in my all too common scenario beyond those laid out on a 1040EZ form, blackangst1. That basically covers a huge % of people in the middle quintile and below. Yet you maintain that middle income folks don't use the tax breaks available to them, over and over again... even though you can't demonstrate any.

How is that supposed to make sense?

Bravo [golf clap]

You've just proved blackangst1 point wonderfully.

A family of 4 would have a total of 4 personal exemptions (the obvious assumption is 2 dependant children). By filing a 1040ez as you suggest they get no deduction for the 2 children's persoanl exemption amount.

They also just blew the chance to claim their $2,000 for the Child Tax Credit.

Depending on other factors, there could be even more lost by filing the 1040EZ.

Fern

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Oceandevi

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Ryan711

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
The rich want to keep more of the money they WORKED their ass off for?

What a crazy concept!!

Show me how hard the CEO of the likes of AIG etc worked for their millions upon millions.

What about doctors lawyers, dentists. You know, CEOs are a very small percentage of those in the top tax bracket

What about them?

Tax 'em till they bleed! Those bastard doctors should be living in cardboard boxes!

We should socialize doctors pay.

Socialize our pay and you will get what you pay for.

 

[JohnnyGage]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: Oceandevi

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Ryan711

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
The rich want to keep more of the money they WORKED their ass off for?

What a crazy concept!!

Show me how hard the CEO of the likes of AIG etc worked for their millions upon millions.

What about doctors lawyers, dentists. You know, CEOs are a very small percentage of those in the top tax bracket

What about them?

Tax 'em till they bleed! Those bastard doctors should be living in cardboard boxes!

We should socialize doctors pay.

Socialize our pay and you will get what you pay for.

Socialize the doctors pay? Anyone stupid enough to say that never went through a year of med school--where you get paid very little and get abused beyond belief.

It seems everyone's answer here is tp socialize everything--hell it's really working in Venezuela.

 

[StageLeft]

Aren't docs socialized in Canada? I know they do bill at specific rates that are locked in on the services they provide.

 

[yuppiejr]

Aah the politics of envy... god forbid people innovate, invest, take risks and are rewarded for their efforts - lets drag the bastards down to our level instead!

The underlying problem is the tax code is simply too complex and too easy to game either for personal benefit or as some sort of political club to win points. We'd be far better off scrapping the entire tax code and going to a federal sales tax on all purchases or a flat % tax on all taxpayers. No corporate tax, no personal income tax, no capital gains - all taxes come from one source making it easier and cheaper to collect and giving much more transparency to the taxpayer as to how much of their money the government is pissing away.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr
Aah the politics of envy... god forbid people innovate, invest, take risks and are rewarded for their efforts - lets drag the bastards down to our level instead!

The underlying problem is the tax code is simply too complex and too easy to game either for personal benefit or as some sort of political club to win points. We'd be far better off scrapping the entire tax code and going to a federal sales tax on all purchases or a flat % tax on all taxpayers. No corporate tax, no personal income tax, no capital gains - all taxes come from one source making it easier and cheaper to collect and giving much more transparency to the taxpayer as to how much of their money the government is pissing away.

hmm a transparent flat tax..yeah then you'd have guys like dmcowen yelling murder because the rich get to keep more of their money. Plus all these huge wasteful government programs would no longer have the endless funds they enjoy and would need to be trimmed down..we can't have that!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
hmm a transparent flat tax..yeah then you'd have guys like dmcowen yelling murder because the rich get to keep more of their money.

That is always the underlying theme.

Why are the rich so reluctant to contribute their fair share to a country they supposedly love?

Could be for the love of money above all else?

I like Obama's idea of mandatory military service because all both poor, middle class (if any left) and rich would have to serve and shit side by side.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
hmm a transparent flat tax..yeah then you'd have guys like dmcowen yelling murder because the rich get to keep more of their money.

That is always the underlying theme.

Why are the rich so reluctant to contribute their fair share to a country they supposedly love?

Could be for the love of money above all else?

I like Obama's idea of mandatory military service because all both poor, middle class (if any left) and rich would have to serve and shit side by side.

The bottom fifth of income earners pay 4.5% of taxes collected. The middle fifth pays 15%. The top fifth pays 25%.

Who doesnt pay their fair share again?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
hmm a transparent flat tax..yeah then you'd have guys like dmcowen yelling murder because the rich get to keep more of their money.

That is always the underlying theme.

Why are the rich so reluctant to contribute their fair share to a country they supposedly love?

Could be for the love of money above all else?

I like Obama's idea of mandatory military service because all both poor, middle class (if any left) and rich would have to serve and shit side by side.

The bottom fifth of income earners pay 4.5% of taxes collected. The middle fifth pays 15%. The top fifth pays 25%.

Who doesnt pay their fair share again?

You