Zimbabwe only has $217 left

[ichy]

The U.S. is $100 trillion in debt

Bullshit.

 

[ichy]

That's still worth about 300 trillion Zimbabwe dollars. They are swimming in money!

I think that Zimbabwe gave up on having its own currency years ago.

 

[gorcorps]

lol

The logic generally goes like this. Taxi has 15 people in it. Each person paid $1.25. Cops ask for $20. That's more than the driver got in fares so a huge bargaining takes place until he gets to a sum he can actually pay.

15 people is not a taxi, that's a bus

 

[ichy]

Your call but Victoria Falls alone makes it worth visiting. It's one of the most amazing things to see on the planet.

I would highly recommend visiting Victoria Falls... from the Zambian side of the border.

 

[ichy]

The problem was not taking farmland away from whites. The problem was the government gave it to its cronies and supporters, who knew nothing about farming.

Actually the problem WAS that the gov't took farms away from whites. Even if the land hadn't been give to Mugabe's goons you'd be giving it to people who have no capital, no experience at large scale commercial farming and no equipment. Congratulations, you just turned a big agricultural producer into a subsistence farm.

 

[Dari]

Actually the problem WAS that the gov't took farms away from whites. Even if the land hadn't been give to Mugabe's goons you'd be giving it to people who have no capital, no experience at large scale commercial farming and no equipment. Congratulations, you just turned a big agricultural producer into a subsistence farm.

No. There are many ways the government could have handed this situation. They just chose the worst way. Taking it away from white was not the issue. The issue was focusing on short term gains at the expense of long term gains.

 

[ichy]

No. There are many ways the government could have handed this situation. They just chose the worst way. Taking it away from white was not the issue. The issue was focusing on short term gains at the expense of long term gains.

You can't just trample on private property rights and expect to have a functioning economy.

 

[nehalem256]

No. There are many ways the government could have handed this situation. They just chose the worst way. Taking it away from white was not the issue. The issue was focusing on short term gains at the expense of long term gains.

So government confiscation of property is not an issue?

 

[Dari]

You can't just trample on private property rights and expect to have a functioning economy.

Of course you can. They do it all day every day in China and Russia.

So government confiscation of property is not an issue?

No it is not. New government, new rules. Obviously, the black government did not feel that they deserved it (and they didn't). Those lands were taken from blacks when the British colonized the area and legitimized their theft with laws. The new black government did the exact same thing.

 

[ichy]

No it is not. New government, new rules.

It may not be fair but it was whites who drove Zimbabwe's economy. Yeah their ancestors got their farmland in dirty ways but it was their big commercial farms that produced the country's major cash crops. While you can trample on their property rights of your country's biggest produced you shouldn't be surprised when they then bail and leave you as an economic basketcase.

 

[Greenman]

Of course you can. They do it all day every day in China and Russia.



No it is not. New government, new rules. Obviously, the black government did not feel that they deserved it (and they didn't). Those lands were taken from blacks when the British colonized the area and legitimized their theft with laws. The new black government did the exact same thing.

The difference being that when the Brits did it it worked.

 

[Dari]

It may not be fair but it was whites who drove Zimbabwe's economy. Yeah their ancestors got their farmland in dirty ways but it was their big commercial farms that produced the country's major cash crops. While you can trample on their property rights of your country's biggest produced you shouldn't be surprised when they then bail and leave you as an economic basketcase.

The difference being that when the Brits did it it worked.

Not sure what point you guys are trying to make. Like I said, this could've been handled differently. Better. SA went about this a different way. There could've been negotiations. It didn't have to be this way. Oh well, future governments will learn from the mistakes of men like Mugabe and Idi Dada Amin, amongst others.

 

[ichy]

Not sure what point you guys are trying to make. Like I said, this could've been handled differently. Better. SA went about this a different way. There could've been negotiations. It didn't have to be this way. Oh well, future governments will learn from the mistakes of men like Mugabe and Idi Dada Amin, amongst others.

Actually where was a willing-buyer, willing-seller land reform program after independence that was funded by the UK. It was largely a failure because of government incompetence and corruption.

It's also disgusting that you're referring to what Mugabe and Idi Amin did as "mistakes." Both men are absolute monsters and their actions were mistakes in the way that Hitler's actions were a mistake.

 

[ichy]

The difference being that when the Brits did it it worked.

Yup. The PC crowd loves getting their panties in a twist when people say this but with 20/20 hindsight it's clear that the country was better off as Rhodesia than it has been under Mugabe's incompetence and thuggery.

 

[SheHateMe]

That's enough for a lifetime supply of Ramen noodles. What the problem?

 

[Dari]

Actually where was a willing-buyer, willing-seller land reform program after independence that was funded by the UK. It was largely a failure because of government incompetence and corruption.

It's also disgusting that you're referring to what Mugabe and Idi Amin did as "mistakes." Both men are absolute monsters and their actions were mistakes in the way that Hitler's actions were a mistake.

I don't really understand what you just wrote. Also, don't preach to me about your morals. It's all relative.

Yup. The PC crowd loves getting their panties in a twist when people say this but with 20/20 hindsight it's clear that the country was better off as Rhodesia than it has been under Mugabe's incompetence and thuggery.

It was better off for certain groups, certainly not for all. But what's done is done. It's a learning experience for all. IMHO, they should have murdered some hanger-ons from the colonial days and the rest would've fell into line real quick. Then turn the farmers into renters with proceeds going to the state. Or hire foreigners to run things. That would have been better.

 

[ichy]

It was better off for certain groups, certainly not for all. But what's done is done. It's a learning experience for all. IMHO, they should have murdered some hanger-ons from the colonial days and the rest would've fell into line real quick. Then turn the farmers into renters with proceeds going to the state. Or hire foreigners to run things. That would have been better.

Ok, now I know for sure that you're trolling. Turn the commercial farmers into renters and they'd all run out of the country leaving the place broke and destitute.

Also, Rhodesia was by any objective standard better for everyone than the current catastrophe in Zimbabwe. It was not the glorious outpost of civilization and enlightenment that some of its apologists make it out to be but it was certainly the lesser of two evils.

 

[Dari]

Ok, now I know for sure that you're trolling. Turn the commercial farmers into renters and they'd all run out of the country leaving the place broke and destitute.

Also, Rhodesia was by any objective standard better for everyone than the current catastrophe in Zimbabwe. It was not the glorious outpost of civilization and enlightenment that some of its apologists make it out to be but it was certainly the lesser of two evils.

I think foreigners could've done the job just as well as the farmers in that country. This is not difficult to understand.

Also, neither you or I know whether or not it was better off for most. You are speculating.

 

[ichy]

Also, neither you or I know whether or not it was better off for most. You are speculating.

Compare infant mortality, health care delivery, malnutrition, etc etc etc. We DO know that people were better off in Rhodesia. You're just an ignorant asshole or a troll.

 

[randomrogue]

I would highly recommend visiting Victoria Falls... from the Zambian side of the border.

See it from both. However most of it is on the Zimbabwe side. You see only about 25% from Zambia. I enjoyed seeing it from the Zimbabwe side much better and you can walk to the falls from your hotel unlike the Zambian side where you need to get a ride there. It's right in your face in Zimbabwe. Zambia has the "wow that's pretty cool" feel while the Zimbabwe side has the "HOLY SHIT THAT'S ENORMOUS!". If you go during the dry season I don't think there's even a waterfall to see on the Zambian side.

 

[randomrogue]

It was better off for certain groups, certainly not for all. But what's done is done. It's a learning experience for all. IMHO, they should have murdered some hanger-ons from the colonial days and the rest would've fell into line real quick. Then turn the farmers into renters with proceeds going to the state. Or hire foreigners to run things. That would have been better.

So basically you think that if you followed Stalin's ideology but brought in some foreigners as labor it would have been better? That's brilliant.

Rhodesia and Nyasaland today are pretty fucked up. Luckily for Malawi they just got a new President (the first woman president in Africa) so hopefully things will get better. However the day can't come soon enough that Mugabe drops dead.

 

[nehalem256]

No it is not. New government, new rules. Obviously, the black government did not feel that they deserved it (and they didn't). Those lands were taken from blacks when the British colonized the area and legitimized their theft with laws. The new black government did the exact same thing.

Why is it that when white people go to colored countries its call "colonizing" and its okay to kick the colonizers out.

But if colored people move to white countries they are immigrants and if you don't bend over backward to support them you are a racist?

Also do you have in proof the British colonists stole the land instead of taking either unused land or buying land from natives?

 

[nehalem256]

I think foreigners could've done the job just as well as the farmers in that country. This is not difficult to understand.

Also, neither you or I know whether or not it was better off for most. You are speculating.

Actually it sounds like the speculator is you.

 

[drebo]

No. There are many ways the government could have handed this situation. They just chose the worst way. Taking it away from white was not the issue. The issue was focusing on short term gains at the expense of long term gains.

Taking land away from its owners is never acceptable. Ever. In any context.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Your call but Victoria Falls alone makes it worth visiting. It's one of the most amazing things to see on the planet.

I'm afraid of heights. F-that!

Sure is a beautiful place though