Zimbabwe Considers Returning Farmland to Whites

[Fern]

White people pretty much are responsible for Africa's problems. Showing up, killing thousands of people, enslaving even more, stripping the land of resources. That tends to mess things up for a long time.



It is funny when people try to pin the blame on a global slave trade on the people who are caught in it.

LOL

Proggie revisionist history.

Virtually every race, every ethnicity, has experienced slavery. White people didn't bring slavery to Africa, nor are they responsible for contemporary slavery in Africa.

Read some shizz so you don't look so stupid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_contemporary_Africa and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqaliba

That will get you started. White people didn't invent slavery, in fact they were taken as slaves by Arabs and other white (European) people. Hell, look up slavery as practiced by indigenous North Americans in the NW. Nobody taught the NA natives slavery; they figured it out on their own.

If you think the biblical Old Testament has any relevance as a historical resource you must know that slavery existed before the "New World" was even found.

Fern

 

[nickqt]

LOL

Proggie revisionist history.

Virtually every race, every ethnicity, has experienced slavery. White people didn't bring slavery to Africa, nor are they responsible for contemporary slavery in Africa.

Read some shizz so you don't look so stupid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_contemporary_Africa and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqaliba

That will get you started. White people didn't invent slavery, in fact they were taken as slaves by Arabs and other white (European) people. Hell, look up slavery as practiced by indigenous North Americans in the NW. Nobody taught the NA natives slavery; they figured it out on their own.

If you think the biblical Old Testament has any relevance as a historical resource you must know that slavery existed before the "New World" was even found.

Fern

It doesn't excuse away the European slave trade by simply pointing to other peoples and saying, "look, they did it too!".

 

[Nebor]

If the Europeans had left the continent alone, it probably wouldn't be much different than it was 1000 years ago.

This. Africans have been around longer than Europeans. But they lacked the circumstances to develop what we consider to be civilization. I can show you exactly what Africa would look like if Europeans had never set foot there: North Sentinel Island.

The question is, were they better off as small tribes killing each other with spears than they are as teaming masses clustered in unsustainable cities killing each other with AK47s? Probably not. But they were some of the first simplistic cultures that Europeans encountered. There was no way we could have known how they would handle elements of our modern society.

And as it turns out, virtually every culture that we've forced "Western" civilization on (Native Americans, Inuits, Pacific Islanders, Africans) has resulted in the same outcome: An inability to operate a Western style government without massive corruption, an inability to properly metabolize a grain-heavy, agragrian Western diet, the destruction of their traditional family\cultural structures, and a really serious problem with alcohol and drugs.

I'm not one to apologize or feel "white guilt" for something I had no part in, but it seems clear to me that all of those people would have been better off without our "help."

 

[MongGrel]

I thought the same thing happened in South Africa long ago.

I forget.

 

[Fern]

It doesn't excuse away the European slave trade by simply pointing to other peoples and saying, "look, they did it too!".

And when everybody is guilty you can't simply point your finger at the Europeans and blame them.

Hell, the Europeans didn't start slavery and even though they've stopped, slavery is still alive today as the links I provided demonstrate.

Fern

 

[Fern]

This. Africans have been around longer than Europeans. But they lacked the circumstances to develop what we consider to be civilization. I can show you exactly what Africa would look like if Europeans had never set foot there: North Sentinel Island.

IMO, unlikely.

Your example is an isolated island. Africa is a large continent, not isolated in the least. Jeebus, a huge chunk of it is, and has been for some time, populated by Arabs. Before the Arabs swept out of their peninsula and Westward the place was part of the Roman empire. The Northern part of Africa has seen almost every race/ethnicity known to mankind (and likely some that no longer exist). There is even a tribe in S. Africa that claims to be descendants of ancient Hebrews, and they have the DNA to prove it. (I forget the name of the Hebrew tribe, but it was the one tasked with guarding the Ark of the Covenant etc in Solomon's temple in Jerusalem)

Otherwise, cool stuff. I've never heard of this island. Interesting that they've been isolated for so long. Of course killing everybody that happens to drop by tends to do that, keeping you isolated I mean.

Fern

 

[Nebor]

IMO, unlikely.

Your example is an isolated island. Africa is a large continent, not isolated in the least. Jeebus, a huge chunk of it is, and has been for some time, populated by Arabs. Before the Arabs swept out of their peninsula and Westward the place was part of the Roman empire. The Northern part of Africa has seen almost every race/ethnicity known to mankind (and likely some that no longer exist). There is even a tribe in S. Africa that claims to be descendants of ancient Hebrews, and they have the DNA to prove it. (I forget the name of the Hebrew tribe, but it was the one tasked with guarding the Ark of the Covenant etc in Solomon's temple in Jerusalem)

Otherwise, cool stuff. I've never heard of this island. Interesting that they've been isolated for so long. Of course killing everybody that happens to drop by tends to do that, keeping you isolated I mean.

Fern

I'm not a geologist or a sociologist, but isn't it possible that without European intervention, Africa would have become an isolated island?

 

[Bart*Simpson]

A friend of my Dad had his house and 200 acres taken away by the government's thugs....i wonder if he will get it back?

Was this an act of the Mugabe regime in Zimbabwe or was it Obama's Environmental Protection Agency declaring some random mud puddle to be a 'navigable waterway' or some such BS?

 

[Bart*Simpson]

Oh, and if the Europeans hadn't invaded and occupied Africa the Muslims would have done it instead.

 

[Spungo]

What's also crazy is the level of anti GMO hysteria that so many African governments have bought into. Hope you don't consider this off topic but any discussion of food production in Africa should involve the anti GMO problem plaguing the continent.

African countries were food exporters long before GMO existed. Don't go blaming their retardedness and mismanagement on the lack of GMO plants. Even with the best technology in the world, Africa would be fucked. You can't fix corruption with technology.

 

[davmat787]

African countries were food exporters long before GMO existed. Don't go blaming their retardedness and mismanagement on the lack of GMO plants. Even with the best technology in the world, Africa would be fucked. You can't fix corruption with technology.

I'm blaming current problems not on the lack of GMO seed and plant, but rather the nearly wholesale buyin from governments across Africa of the anti GMO hysteria and plain rejection of science.

The NYT article I linked to earlier in this thread has many examples of crop failures in which GMO solutions existed but were illegal due to anti GMO regulations which exist due to ignorance and pressure from anti GMO groups.

Millions are negatively impacted by the damage these anti GMO groups have caused. Of course they get to return to their comfortable western countries that are immune to their bullshit.

 

[Orignal Earl]

LOL

White people didn't invent slavery, in fact they were taken as slaves by Arabs and other white (European) people.

Fern

Arab is white right?
Your saying whites were taken as slaves by whites and other whites

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_American

 

[rudder]

White people pretty much are responsible for Africa's problems. Showing up, killing thousands of people, enslaving even more, stripping the land of resources. That tends to mess things up for a long time.

Obama.... is that you?

Maybe the Europeans were pissed about centuries of enslavement by Africans. Granted is was more a Muslim/Christian thing but still.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

Why would anyone in their right mind go back to Zimbabwe? At the slightest bit of instability you're liable to end up hacked to death with machetes in your sleep.

 

[rudder]

Why would anyone in their right mind go back to Zimbabwe? At the slightest bit of instability you're liable to end up hacked to death with machetes in your sleep.

Some white farmers were killed and many were chased off with machetes.... yeh I don't see them lining up to return.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

I'm not a geologist or a sociologist, but isn't it possible that without European intervention, Africa would have become an isolated island?

Their societies leveled up artificially due to western intervention. If Africa was truly isolated, they'd be 2000-5000 years behind Europe and Asia technology wise. Areas outside of modern cities still have people living in straw or mud huts. A lot of tribes haven't even developed skill with masonry, or metallurgy. Contrary to liberal/leftist diatribes, which claim White man stole everything, many African countries are sitting on valuable resources, whether its gold, gems, oil, etc. And they're not even taking advantage of these resources to develop their societies.

 

[waggy]

Arab is white right?
Your saying whites were taken as slaves by whites and other whites

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_American

meh. semantics.

if you got back far enough damn near every race has been slaves and its still continuing today.

I think that is a bigger issue then GMO's.

 

[Orignal Earl]

meh. semantics.

if you got back far enough damn near every race has been slaves and its still continuing today.

I think that is a bigger issue then GMO's.

Fern's posts seemed to point at Arabs rather then whites were enslaving people in Africa etc.
He must not of been aware that Arabs are white

 

[Exophase]

Fern's posts seemed to point at Arabs rather then whites were enslaving people in Africa etc.
He must not of been aware that Arabs are white

There are plenty of Arabs who don't consider themselves white. Who decides this exactly? There are many skin tones and Arabs certainly are not all at one extreme.

Then there are people like Bahar Mustafa, a Turkish woman with a pretty fair complexion who nonetheless claims her denigration towards white people can't be considered racist because she's an ethnic minority.

 

[Orignal Earl]

There are plenty of Arabs who don't consider themselves white. Who decides this exactly? There are many skin tones and Arabs certainly are not all at one extreme.

Then there are people like Bahar Mustafa, a Turkish woman with a pretty fair complexion who nonetheless claims her denigration towards white people can't be considered racist because she's an ethnic minority.

Is your argument that the Arabs in Fern's links were the ones who don't consider themselves white?

 

[Exophase]

Is your argument that the Arabs in Fern's links were the ones who don't consider themselves white?

I don't know what they considered themselves. They may not have had an equivalent notion of being white at all. If you're asking if they considered themselves black or some equivalent then I'm sure they largely didn't, but people aren't generally regarded as just black or white.

What I can say is that white tends to be linked with European and Arabs are in Asia, not Europe.

 

[Orignal Earl]

What I can say is that white tends to be linked with European and Arabs are in Asia, not Europe.

The United States Census Bureau defines White people as those "having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_American

 

[Exophase]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_American

That's one definition, many disagree. What makes the US Census authoritative on this matter? I mean, Wikipedia goes on to say:

"In the contemporary United States, essentially anyone of European descent is considered white. However, many of the ethnic groups classified as white by the U.S. Census, such as Jewish-Americans,[citation needed] Arab-Americans, and Hispanics may not identify as, and may not be perceived to be, white."

With numerous sources following..

From the Arab-American article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_American):

"The current U.S. Census definition of white is "people having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East or North Africa."[18] This definition differs from that of some other countries, such as the United Kingdom, which classify Arabs as an ethnic group distinct from whites."

So it's not even consistent among major governments.

 

[Orignal Earl]

That's one definition, many disagree. What makes the US Census authoritative on this matter? I mean, Wikipedia goes on to say:

"In the contemporary United States, essentially anyone of European descent is considered white. However, many of the ethnic groups classified as white by the U.S. Census, such as Jewish-Americans,[citation needed] Arab-Americans, and Hispanics may not identify as, and may not be perceived to be, white."

With numerous sources following..

From the Arab-American article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_American):

"The current U.S. Census definition of white is "people having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East or North Africa."[18] This definition differs from that of some other countries, such as the United Kingdom, which classify Arabs as an ethnic group distinct from whites."

So it's not even consistent among major governments.

Ya, my gov too
We best just call this whole thread a bust then till we figure out exactly who's white and not

 

[Exophase]

Ya, my gov too
We best just call this whole thread a bust then till we figure out exactly who's white and not

In all seriousness, while we won't come to an agreement on whether or not all, some, or no Arabs are white we can probably reach a consensus about some other groups, including the people who are being called white by the topic starter.