Zero Tolerance - Zero Intelligence

[Fern]

Booh! Those sneaky progressives and their dirty tactics of getting elected in republican leaning cities and states!

Yeah. I'm well familiar with it. When they move here they simply switch and run as Repubs. Also, bear in mind that in many locations candidates for school board do not run under any party.

I've worked with and known many school board members. I've never seen them run on any platform other than fiscal issues. So when you're voting for school board you have no idea who does, or does not, support stupid zero tolerance polices. Unless something like this happens to you or a friend you'll probably never even know about it. Our local paper sure as heck wouldn't (they're a 'sister' paper of the NYT and for the most part just print a selection of their articles.)

Also, the policy could have been implemented at the school principal level (or the administrator level - in case you don't know the school administrator works for the board and is over all the principals in the school district).

TL;DR Don't assume the voters knew or approved of this and don't assume it's a policy established by the school board.

Fern

 

[Fern]

You could, but in all fairness it passed with significant republican support. (Modest support in the house and overwhelming support in the senate)

Really though I find the only difference between liberals and conservatives to be what specific items they wish to irrationally punish.

I would imagine it quite difficult (and likely politically stupid) to vote against a bill entitled "the Federal Gun-Free Schools Act of 1994".

Just sayin'.

Fern

 

[rpanic]

The schools are no longer capable of teachable moments. My oldest son is in first grade and they are all taught to tell on each other for even the vaguest thing that comes close to zero tolerance rules or anything else they think up which quickly escalates to a phone call. I feel sorry for all the fear and confusion that children have to deal with these days. I never knew how bad it had become before my first kid started school, 1984 just coming a bit later than title.

 

[ivwshane]

You could, but in all fairness it passed with significant republican support. (Modest support in the house and overwhelming support in the senate)

Really though I find the only difference between liberals and conservatives to be what specific items they wish to irrationally punish.

Lol! You can't argue with DSF using facts, he just ignores them if they go against his gut. Of course he will claim that the republucans barely supported the bill while completely ignoring that the bill was rewritten and reauthorization under the republican controlled, house, senate, and presidency under the garbage known as NCLB, which was voted for by a majority of both reps and dems. And yet this policy is a result of those damn progressives!


Boo!

 

[ivwshane]

Yeah. I'm well familiar with it. When they move here they simply switch and run as Repubs. Also, bear in mind that in many locations candidates for school board do not run under any party.

I've worked with and known many school board members. I've never seen them run on any platform other than fiscal issues. So when you're voting for school board you have no idea who does, or does not, support stupid zero tolerance polices. Unless something like this happens to you or a friend you'll probably never even know about it. Our local paper sure as heck wouldn't (they're a 'sister' paper of the NYT and for the most part just print a selection of their articles.)

Also, the policy could have been implemented at the school principal level (or the administrator level - in case you don't know the school administrator works for the board and is over all the principals in the school district).

TL;DR Don't assume the voters knew or approved of this and don't assume it's a policy established by the school board.

Fern

Lol! Try harder hack! First you say that their party affiliation isn't usually declared and then you claim to know that "they" typically move into an area and change their party affiliation! Do you know how fucking psychotic you sound? Probably not...


And yes, we don't know how this policy got enacted and that was my whole fucking point. Boo!

The GFS act also only specified weapons purchased that crossed state lines (it's why the law hasn't been repealed again- citing the interstate commerce clause) and it covered drugs, any other specifics were left up to the states. Considering Tennessee is a red state I don't think anyone can conclude any one political party put into place such provisions into the zero tolerance zones and one certainly couldn't conclude, with zero evidence, that this is the work of progressives!

But hey! When did facts ever stop you guys and your, easily debunked, conspiracy theories!

 

[waggy]

How do students dissect frogs etc in biology class without a sharp knife of some sort?

I had shop class, we used knives (and many other tools that were far more dangerous).

Although I never took it, I'm pretty sure we had some sort of 'Home Ec" class where food prep was taught. It's hard to imagine food prep without a good sharp knife.

But I'm old and maybe things are different now. I carried a pocket knife with every day, even at school.

Fern

lol.

I carried a pocket knife all through school. nothing major just a Swiss army knife or a little folding knife my Grandpa gave me when i turned 10. most teachers knew and none cared.

Heck during PE we were doing archery. we brought in our own bows if you had one.

that was a different time though. Zero tolerance was a good idea at first. then people got fucking idiotic. suspending a kid for making a gun with his fingers? or eating a pop tart and it looked like a gun? insane.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Lol! You can't argue with DSF using facts, he just ignores them if they go against his gut. Of course he will claim that the republucans barely supported the bill while completely ignoring that the bill was rewritten and reauthorization under the republican controlled, house, senate, and presidency under the garbage known as NCLB, which was voted for by a majority of both reps and dems. And yet this policy is a result of those damn progressives!


Boo!

Both parties have been complicit in promoting zero tolerance policies to some degree...however, Democrats just happened to be the ones who initially and effectively established these policies through their 1994 legislation.

The Gun-Free Schools Act of 1994 (GFSA) was repealed and reenacted under No Child Left Behind (NCLB) in 2002. NCLB broadened the definition of "school" and specifically narrowed the scope of the 1994 law from "weapon" to "firearm". But most importantly, NCLB had a 'common sense' provision added which allowed the chief administer of a school district to grant exceptions (on a case-by-case basis) to the expulsion requirement that was previously mandated under GFSA.

http://smartgunlaws.org/federal-law-on-guns-in-schools/

Republicans did their best to fix a bad law that was originally championed by Democrats....but the damage was already done as the fix was too late to prevent many of the insane zero tolerance policies that developed as a direct result of the 1994 federal mandate.

 

[Anubis]

I'll bite. It is far harder to carry a baseball bat into a bathroom and beat someone to death than it is to have a knife in my pocket and shank someone. I am also going to go out on a limb here and suggest that carrying around a bat is also prohibited in school, however, one would be allowed on school premises because (shocker!) a baseball hat has a function deemed appropriate for school (even if baseball is pretty boring). A knife has no function that would require a student to have one.

The outrage also isn't over the fact that a 4" knife is considered a weapon. It is that a boy was found one to have it in his car (and therefore, his possession). If only the outrage was the same every criminal found with an illegal item / substance who claimed it wasn't theirs! This doesn't even have to be a knife. It could be a gun. Would the outrage be the same? Even if it "wasn't his"?

Common sense should tell you the school has rules barring all weapons from school, a knife is a weapon, a student was found with a weapon in his car and is then suspended. I think 90 days a bit much for alternative school (a friend of mine in high school was found with a shotgun shell in his car and only got 60 days in alternative school, but this was in Texas).

i could shank you to death in the bathroom with a #2 pencil

 

[smackababy]

i could shank you to death in the bathroom with a #2 pencil

You also have a use for a #2 pencil in school. There is always going to be some risk involved, however, it can be mitigated. There is absolutely zero instance where you would need to have a knife in school outside of a home economics class, who all (except for one person, apparently) provide the knives used.

And, again, the 'outrage' here isn't over the fact that a knife was considered a weapon, and therefore banned by school policy. It is because a student claims one found in his possession wasn't his.

 

[BoberFett]

You also have a use for a #2 pencil in school. There is always going to be some risk involved, however, it can be mitigated. There is absolutely zero instance where you would need to have a knife in school outside of a home economics class, who all (except for one person, apparently) provide the knives used.

And, again, the 'outrage' here isn't over the fact that a knife was considered a weapon, and therefore banned by school policy. It is because a student claims one found in his possession wasn't his.

There was no knife in school. It was in a car in the parking lot. I'm sure there are homes near the school that have kitchen drawers full of knives. Are those a danger too?

 

[smackababy]

There was no knife in school. It was in a car in the parking lot. I'm sure there are homes near the school that have kitchen drawers full of knives. Are those a danger too?

The parking lot is part of school. So, in your world, it is okay for them to have anything in their car, because it isn't "in school". They are allowed alcohol, drugs, firearms, knives, bombs, or any kind of contraband?

 

[owensdj]

The South at it once again.

Republican Southerners deserve every bit of this.

Hopefully they lock the kid up for at least 20 years.

That should stop him from ever voting Republican.

These dumb Zero Tolerance policies are in place all over the country, not just in the South. I'd guess they're MORE prevalent in "Blue States" than Southern "Red States."

 

[dainthomas]

The parking lot is part of school. So, in your world, it is okay for them to have anything in their car, because it isn't "in school". They are allowed alcohol, drugs, firearms, knives, bombs, or any kind of contraband?

Alcohol, drugs, and bombs are illegal for high school students to have anywhere. Bad example.

And how many school shootings have the "gun free zones" in schools prevented. I'm going to go way out on a limb and say zero. Given the existing "anti murder" policy in most schools, I don't think these kids would be disuaded by an anti gun policy.

 

[smackababy]

Alcohol, drugs, and bombs are illegal for high school students to have anywhere. Bad example.

And how many school shootings have the "gun free zones" in schools prevented. I'm going to go way out on a limb and say zero. Given the existing "anti murder" policy in most schools, I don't think these kids would be disuaded by an anti gun policy.

So, because schools being "gun free zones" haven't prevented a handful of school shootings, we should do away with it? Obviously, speed limits don't stop people from driving over what someone determined was the safe speed of travel for a road; let's do away with those laws as well! And, I'd like some evidence that not allowing students to have guns hasn't prevented additional school shootings. How do you know that there wouldn't be more if they were allowed to carry them around?

Again, a knife has zero use by a student at school. It is an unnecessary risk to allow students to have them. This student had something that was considered a weapon on school property. End of story. He gets punished for it.

 

[HumblePie]

So, because schools being "gun free zones" haven't prevented a handful of school shootings, we should do away with it? Obviously, speed limits don't stop people from driving over what someone determined was the safe speed of travel for a road; let's do away with those laws as well! And, I'd like some evidence that not allowing students to have guns hasn't prevented additional school shootings. How do you know that there wouldn't be more if they were allowed to carry them around?

Again, a knife has zero use by a student at school. It is an unnecessary risk to allow students to have them. This student had something that was considered a weapon on school property. End of story. He gets punished for it.

A knife has more than one use in a school environment. Home economics is one. Cutting your meal is another. If you have a school that has an Agricultural department, as many around me do, then a knife is all sorts of useful. Then there is shop class, and the mechanics classes. All make good use of a knife on a school campus.

I've had to use a knife or *gasp* scissors (which are really 2 knives in 1!!) to do things like cut the athletic tape I wrapped around my ankles. Or cut some paper.

I knife on school grounds has more than one educational application. A firearm for the students? Well I believe that all students should be taught gun safety, but as for bringing one of their own, then no. But a knife or even an axe I have no problem with. Yes, there are even educational purposes for axes in some schools. Again, the aforementioned agricultural department and wood shop classes tend to make use of sharp objects like that on a daily basis.

 

[BoberFett]

The parking lot is part of school. So, in your world, it is okay for them to have anything in their car, because it isn't "in school". They are allowed alcohol, drugs, firearms, knives, bombs, or any kind of contraband?

You seem to be exactly the kind of person that likes zero tolerance policies, because it doesn't require any thinking.

The goal is safety, is it not? How is a knife in a car endangering anyone? Are tire irons unlawful to have on school grounds? How many cars have tiro irons in them, just waiting to be used to bludgeon students to death?

And how is a car with a knife in it 300 feet from the front door of the school any more dangerous than a home with dozens of knives in it 500 feet from the front door of the school? What if the occupant of that house snapped and decided to kill kids in the school parking lot?

 

[dainthomas]

So, because schools being "gun free zones" haven't prevented a handful of school shootings, we should do away with it? Obviously, speed limits don't stop people from driving over what someone determined was the safe speed of travel for a road; let's do away with those laws as well! And, I'd like some evidence that not allowing students to have guns hasn't prevented additional school shootings. How do you know that there wouldn't be more if they were allowed to carry them around?

Common sense more than evidence. If I'm not phased by society's existing policy against killing a bunch of people, why would I give a crap about my school's anti gun policy? It's laughable.

 

[Fern]

Lol! Try harder hack! First you say that their party affiliation isn't usually declared and then you claim to know that "they" typically move into an area and change their party affiliation! Do you know how fucking psychotic you sound? Probably not...
-snip-

Geez, it's not hard:

1. When the Democrats move here and want to run they simply change their party affiliation and run as a Repub.

2. Not all candidates for school board run under a party label. Where I live now they don't, but in other places they do.

Fern

 

[Fern]

-snip-
I knife on school grounds has more than one educational application. A firearm for the students? Well I believe that all students should be taught gun safety, but as for bringing one of their own, then no.

When I was in high school plenty of students had their (deer) hunting rifle in their truck on a rack affixed to the rear window. You never know when you might see a buck next to the road on the way home from school.

Fern

 

[mizzou]

zero tolerance policies exists because they can't afford the .01% chance they get sued.

Get rid of frivolous lawsuits, we can get rid of zero tolerance

 

[Londo_Jowo]

When I was in high school plenty of students had their (deer) hunting rifle in their truck on a rack affixed to the rear window. You never know when you might see a buck next to the road on the way home from school.

Fern

Same here, growing up in Southwestern Virginia it wasn't uncommon to see a 6" hunting or 4" skinning knife hanging from the gun rack as well. We would hunt for deer for a hour or so before the start of school and back in the woods for a couple hours after school during deer season. I would venture to say over 50% of the cars in the school parking lot would have a high powered rifle or shotgun in the trunk or gun rack. Carrying a pocket knife was so common no one really took notice.

 

[hal2kilo]

Geez, it's not hard:

1. When the Democrats move here and want to run they simply change their party affiliation and run as a Repub.

2. Not all candidates for school board run under a party label. Where I live now they don't, but in other places they do.

Fern

Oh Ret! What will we do with those damn carpet baggers.

 

[ivwshane]

Geez, it's not hard:

1. When the Democrats move here and want to run they simply change their party affiliation and run as a Repub.

2. Not all candidates for school board run under a party label. Where I live now they don't, but in other places they do.

Fern

Do you live or have you lived in Clarksville ten? No? Then shut the fuck up because all you are doing is talking out of your ass! Unless you have information that backs up DSF's claim in this instance just stop, your hackish hackery isn't very becoming of someone who supposedly isn't a nut. Unless I'm wrong about that last part.

 

[Fern]

Ruh, roh, somebody's butthurt.

Fern

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Ruh, roh, somebody's butthurt.

Fern

It appears that he walked away from this thread when he saw that he couldn't reasonably refute the facts. The guy is an ignorant dick.