Question Zen 6 Speculation Thread

[adroc_thurston]

Six core is intriguing

They gotta toss die rejects somewhere.
Not a volume part at all.

 

[jpiniero]

They gotta toss die rejects somewhere.
Not a volume part at all.

Make it OEM only perhaps?

 

[Thibsie]

Yea

Wondering about the prices of each sku…
And that’s not counting x3D skus of course.

 

[Thibsie]

They gotta toss die rejects somewhere.
Not a volume part at all.

Volume would be 8 cores now ? Nice….

 

[adroc_thurston]

Make it OEM only perhaps?

Probs. You can get trays.

Wondering about the prices of each sku…

$$$

Volume would be 8 cores now ? Nice….

For more money, yes.

 

[511]

Six core is intriguing

I want a 6 + 9 Core SKU to meme

 

[Joe NYC]

Make it OEM only perhaps?

Or Mind Factory / Micro Center special.

 

[Thibsie]

I want a 6 + 9 Core SKU to meme

Too bad those are LGA now, can’t even joke about what you might want to do with all those pins…

Ok, I’m out…

 

[Bigos]

I want a 6 + 9 Core SKU to meme

All you can hope for nowadays is 6 + 7

 

[Jan Olšan]

All you can hope for nowadays is 6 + 7

That would be cool. Still mad 7core CPUs never appeared.

 

[blackangus]

I don't remember why I stopped following SemiAnalysis but the things I'm seeing now triple reinforce my original decision.

Reading that post feels like watching a grown kid having a tantrum.

Man you beat me to it... that reads like a 3 year old...

 

[OneEng2]

Six core is intriguing

I saw this in the morning news feed. Intriguing indeed.

I wonder if they will have different cache versions as well, or simply rely on the entire core + cache to be good on at least 6 of 12 cores before they just throw it in the trash?

They gotta toss die rejects somewhere.
Not a volume part at all.

That is a traditionally silly statement. The lower cost SKU always sells more. I believe in this market, it will be VERY true. I currently have a 6 core Zen 3 ..... and it gets the job done just fine day to day. A 6 core Zen 6 would be a monster in comparision .... ie more than enough for nearly anyone so why pay more?

I do wonder though, if the yield is good enough that they don't really NEED to have very many 6 core products, how much would they be willing to lose in profit before they simply said they were out of stock and pushed people (certainly DIY) to a higher and more expensive SKU. For OEM sales though, they will have to deliver the quantities they signed up for. If they offer a 6 core SKU and Dell buys it, I guarantee there will be a required volume..... yields be damned.

 

[adroc_thurston]

the lower cost SKU always sells more

proven wrong by 9800X3D award.

A 6 core Zen 6 would be a monster in comparision .... ie more than enough for nearly anyone so why pay more?

You'll pay more because N2p yields are too high for AMD to field 6c reject volumes.

 

[Doug S]

You'll pay more because N2p yields are too high for AMD to field 6c reject volumes.

You don't understand how product segmentation works if you think that the only 6c parts they'd sell would be "rejects". You think that's true with Apple, that everything they sell with a missing GPU core is because that core was in fact defected - so that if yields later increase those cut down models will become unavailable to buy?

AMD will sell 6c parts that could have been sold as 8c for less than the 8c price because there's demand for 6c, and they will have decided on their prices for both 6c and 8c parts knowing that many 8c capable parts will be sold at 6c prices.

 

[adroc_thurston]

You don't understand how product segmentation works if you think that the only 6c parts they'd sell would be "rejects"

Yes I do.
6c bins of a 12c CCD are just uneconomical at N2p yield.

You think that's true with Apple, that everything they sell with a missing GPU core is because that core was in fact defected - so that if yields later increase those cut down models will become unavailable to buy?

You're comparing maybe 80% harvest to a 50% one.
Come on buddy, you know this is silly.

AMD will sell 6c parts that could have been sold as 8c for less than the 8c price because there's demand for 6c

No, they'll sell 8c instead.
This isn't the first time AMD did intentionally skewed SKU portfolios to maximize ASPs and margins.

 

[Hulk]

There was also a mention of a 2CCD 12 core part, which seems strange, right?

Never mind, just checked it and I swear they changed the original post at Tom's.

 

[xnery007]

I simply cannot understand the existence of a future 6-core Zen 6 unless AMD completely stops manufacturing older 6-core chips like the 7500F.
If an 8% uplift costs 64% more today (7500F ~€126 vs 9600X ~€206), what exactly would the 10600X have to offer to justify its existence for DIY builders?

Let's not forget the 9600X originally launched at a ridiculous €310!
We know the upcoming TSMC N2 node is not going to be cheap, so I absolutely do not expect a lower launch price for the next generation. What kind of out-of-this-world performance jump would a "10600X" have to deliver for anyone to even consider buying it instead of just grabbing a 7500F for €126?

Or who knows... maybe we'll all be sitting there at the Zen6 launch with our jaws on the floor, watching AMD reveal a 6-core with a 50%+ gen-on-gen uplift, and we'll just be aggressively throwing our wallets at the screen

 

[adroc_thurston]

what exactly would the 10600X have to offer to justify its existence for DIY builders?

A ton of fmax.

We know the upcoming TSMC N2 node is not going to be cheap, so I absolutely do not expect a lower launch price for the next generation. What kind of out-of-this-world performance jump would a "10600X" have to deliver for anyone to even consider buying it instead of just grabbing a 7500F for €126?

poor people problems.

 

[Win2012R2]

That is a traditionally silly statement. The lower cost SKU always sells more.

Not always, specifically not in cases when yields are so good that volume of lower grade stuff is much lower than normal stuff.

We know the upcoming TSMC N2 node is not going to be cheap

High yielding 80mm chip even with 50% markup on N2 will add maybe 50 bucks max. Main risk for prices is that server chips will be in super high demand, a lot less incentive to redirect them to consumer versions.

 

[MerryCherry]

So 24c, 20c, 16c, 12c, 8c, 6c ?

Too many options, eh?

The dual ccd 16c might be worse than single ccd 12 core in some workloads.

Should've done;

24c
18c
12c
8c

 

[adroc_thurston]

The dual ccd 16c might be worse than single ccd 12 core in some workloads.

Extreme edge cases do not count.

24c
18c
12c
8c

CCDs are binned in 2c granularity.

 

[reaperrr3]

Extreme edge cases do not count.

Games aren't extreme edge cases as far as desktop is concerned, and I'm pretty sure some of them will run better on the mono-12c part(s).

So 24c, 20c, 16c, 12c, 8c, 6c ?

Too many options, eh?

That indicates AMD is rather confident in Zen6.

You don't divide your line-up into any more SKUs than necessary, unless you're sure they'll all sell good enough to justify it.

 

[511]

Games aren't extreme edge cases as far as desktop is concerned, and I'm pretty sure some of them will run better on the mono-12c part(s).


That indicates AMD is rather confident in Zen6.

You don't divide your line-up into any more SKUs than necessary, unless you're sure they'll all sell good enough to justify it.

Or they need to justify the wafer cost it's just maximizing what you can get out of your wafer

 

[adroc_thurston]

Games aren't extreme edge cases as far as desktop is concerned, and I'm pretty sure some of them will run better on the mono-12c part(s).

Games don't use 12c.

 

[coercitiv]

Games aren't extreme edge cases as far as desktop is concerned, and I'm pretty sure some of them will run better on the mono-12c part(s).

Today the 8-core Zen5 is better at games than the 12-core, and yet each has it's own place on the market.