Question Zen 6 Speculation Thread

[igor_kavinski]

Only the top tier parts have it. The bulk of mass production is on n3 class nodes.

For mobile parts, I can understand that as people would want to pay higher prices for energy efficient fast laptops but desktop chips usually get discounted a lot after a few months. Why would AMD want to reduce their margins on them by paying for a leading edge node? I'm guessing the laptop parts similar to Ryzen AI HX series will hit 5.5 GHz on N2 while desktop parts "may" hit 6 GHz on N3.

 

[Kaffeekenan]

Only the top tier parts have it. The bulk of mass production is on n3 class nodes. All they need to produce is diy desktop and server. They're also the first and only customer initially.

Soooooo, what parts don't have it? Mobile? I am pretty sure mobile uses the same 12 core CCD according to mlid?

 

[igor_kavinski]

They're also the first and only customer initially.

Didn't know that. How did they beat Apple to the punch?

 

[Joe NYC]

For mobile parts, I can understand that as people would want to pay higher prices for energy efficient fast laptops but desktop chips usually get discounted a lot after a few months. Why would AMD want to reduce their margins on them by paying for a leading edge node? I'm guessing the laptop parts similar to Ryzen AI HX series will hit 5.5 GHz on N2 while desktop parts "may" hit 6 GHz on N3.

AMD is actually increasing its margin by selling premium products. It was mentioned a couple of time in the latest investor call, that AMD desktop ASPs rose significantly, which also means their margins.

AMD still has a way to go to capture all of the premium market, in both desktop and notebooks. So there is still more margin to gain with superior products.

 

[igor_kavinski]

AMD still has a way to go to capture all of the premium market, in both desktop and notebooks. So there is still more margin to gain with superior products.

Pretty risky move.

Either the products will be almost unaffordable for most of us on this forum or AMD is forced to discount the desktop products heavily to move units if the general population doesn't care much about having N2 silicon no matter the cost. Sure, gamers will pay up to $500-$600 for a 12-core gaming CPU so at least they have that going for them.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Sure, gamers will pay up to $500-$600 for a 12-core gaming CPU so at least they have that going for them.

Well yeah that's the DIY DT market.
Congrats to AMD for winning it all.

 

[gdansk]

If AMD can get a single CCD X3D part to 6GHz I think gamers would pay more than $600. Or at least I'd consider it.

But pricing might depend on what performance Intel can get out of the big last level cache variants.

 

[Joe NYC]

Pretty risky move.

Either the products will be almost unaffordable for most of us on this forum or AMD is forced to discount the desktop products heavily to move units if the general population doesn't care much about having N2 silicon no matter the cost. Sure, gamers will pay up to $500-$600 for a 12-core gaming CPU so at least they have that going for them.

I think you are missing the market share dynamics here. Intel still has ~75% market share and plenty of it is in the premium segments.

The difference in cost for AMD to make a premium product, such as V-Cache is single digit to $10+, difference in ASP between low end and premium is $100.

AMD has a lot of room to expand its presence in the premium segments to displace Intel from there. Especially in mobile. AMD could easily triple its unit shipments in premium mobile segment. But AMD needs to give OEMs extremely compelling reason to stop prioritizing Intel and start prioritizing AMD.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Well yeah that's the DIY DT market.
Congrats to AMD for winning it all.

It's bittersweet because obviously most of us wish they weren't THAT successful

With great success comes exorbitant prices!

 

[adroc_thurston]

t's bittersweet because obviously most of us wish they weren't THAT successful

Sorry brotha, you're my piggy bank.
And AMD has laptop commercial to win.

With great success comes exorbitant prices!

You can't even imagine.

 

[igor_kavinski]

But pricing might depend on what performance Intel can get out of the big last level cache variants.

Yeah, there's hope that Intel getting into the LLC game finally creates downward pressure on pricing.

Or maybe it makes it worse?

 

[adroc_thurston]

there's hope that Intel getting into the LLC game finally creates downward pressure on pricing.

a) NVL-S bLLC will be a lot more expensive to make since it eschews 3D stacking in favour of just 'a' chungus CCD
b) LBT likes to CBT aka he needs the margin

 

[Joe NYC]

It's bittersweet because obviously most of us wish they weren't THAT successful

With great success comes exorbitant prices!

No?

Intel is charging higher prices for 285K, 14900k for lower gaming performance.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Intel is charging higher prices for 285K, 14900k for lower gaming performance.

They can because of a lot of "inter CCD latency" and "tile latency" haters still.

It's a minority in the grand scheme of things. 14900K users are running their chips with HT off and E-cores disabled. 285K users are mostly 4K gamers.

For the rest of the gamers, 12700K, 265K and 9700X are still great budget options. They will suffer if suddenly AMD prices get out of hand.

 

[adroc_thurston]

They can because of a lot of "inter CCD latency" and "tile latency" haters still.

lmao no, unmedicated schizos have no relation to actual market performance.

They will suffer if suddenly AMD prices get out of hand.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS agony and anguish.

 

[Joe NYC]

Yeah, there's hope that Intel getting into the LLC game finally creates downward pressure on pricing.

Or maybe it makes it worse?

So you at the same time complain about:
- AMD current pricing
- potential AMD pricing of N2 12 core CPUs

But you have hope that Intel's gigantic die with with SRAM on N2, that it will put pressure on AMD pricing. How exactly is it going to happen?

 

[igor_kavinski]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS agony and anguish.

Can't blame you. You have seen things burn so much that now you are taking pleasure in seeing chaos everywhere. Or maybe you have enough AMD shares to enjoy a nice retirement?

 

[igor_kavinski]

But you have hope that Intel's gigantic die with with SRAM on N2, that it will put pressure on AMD pricing. How exactly is it going to happen?

Because Intel is desperate for attention.

I see the following possibilities:

1) Intel's LLC implementation is superior. They win. AMD has to lower prices.

2) Intel's implementation sucks but still better than vanilla Intel CPUs. We can has them by paying a bit higher.

3) Intel and AMD are neck and neck. We are screwed.

 

[Io Magnesso]

No?

Intel is charging higher prices for 285K, 14900k for lower gaming performance.

No, at least in the area where I live
9800x3D is traded at a fairly high price

 

[Io Magnesso]

Ryzen7's X3D model is... The concept was to boast the same performance as a high-end CPU at a middle range price… 5800X3D…
It's a good dollar box for AMD, so I can't blame it... I think the current 9800x3D is out of that concept.
In the first place, the packaging lanes for implementing V-cache are limited, so there are some places that can't be helped...

 

[adroc_thurston]

Or maybe you have enough AMD shares to enjoy a nice retirement?

Well that's pretty obvious. And I hate gamers™.

Intel's LLC implementation is superior.

Chances of us encountering alien life in the next 5 years are higher than that.

 

[Io Magnesso]

Since AMD was the first to place its orders for N2 - no.

This is just a story about AMD using N2...
AMD is not the first to order N2
Some manufacturers may have ordered it at the same time as AMD, or have already ordered it before AMD ordered it.

https://www.amd.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2025-4-14-amd-achieves-first-tsmc-n2-product-silicon-milesto.html

This is just an announcement that it was tape-out and produced (probably engineered sampling).

 

[Io Magnesso]

Because Intel is desperate for attention.

I see the following possibilities:

1) Intel's LLC implementation is superior. They win. AMD has to lower prices.

2) Intel's implementation sucks but still better than vanilla Intel CPUs. We can has them by paying a bit higher.

3) Intel and AMD are neck and neck. We are screwed.

Well, which way, the competition is good
Because it is more likely that you can buy the CPU you like at a price that is as close to the list price as possible.

 

[LightningZ71]

I don't know where people are getting the idea that AMD is going to be consuming a mammoth amount of N2 capacity. AMD is producing a pair of CCDs (maybe 3 if their mobile parts that use them need a slightly different one) that aren't all that big. The IOD isn't on N2. The mobile APUs aren't on N2 for the base chip (though, rumor has it that it can connect at least one external CCD...). AMD can get a LOT of product out on N2 where it matters while still leveraging lower cost and more plentiful N3 family nodes for where absolute performance/density/power achievements aren't critical.

N2 capacity isn't going to be an issue for AMD. Now packaging... that may be a different story...

 

[Tuna-Fish]

Didn't know that. How did they beat Apple to the punch?

I think it's just the timeline, Apple likes sticking to a product launch calendar and it's won't be ready for Apple's major launches in 2026. Also AMD is probably more willing to delay product launch for last-minute delays.