Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

So basically it looks ok compared to previous gen X-SKUs, because ist more efficient. But if you compare it to real predecessors, it's complete garbage. Like 10% more efficient, 15% faster in Applications and barely faster in Gaming.

Oh, it gets so much worse than that when you take the increase in core area into account.

 

[trexfromouterspace]

Turns out it really is a "bulldozer moment" somewhat.
Years of expectation, huge changes to the architecture, negative IPC slower than previous gen, only performs well under specific right circumstances (at least power is good), gives time to the competition to breath and strike back with call.

Make me fear that Zen 6 and Zen 7 will be Piledrivers and Steamrollers.

"Leapfrogging design teams" - AMD should check their payrolls to see if some of them haven't leapfrogged out of the company.

These are linked

 

[DisEnchantment]

Hehehee

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

Turns out it really is a "bulldozer moment" somewhat.
Years of expectation, huge changes to the architecture, negative IPC slower than previous gen, only performs well under specific right circumstances (at least power is good), gives time to the competition to breath and strike back with calm.

Make me fear that Zen 6 and Zen 7 will be Piledrivers and Steamrollers.

​

Zen 6 likely will, Zen 7 is a bit of an unknown given that it's developed by a different team.

 

[In2Photos]

9600X and 9700X appear to be what we all wanted from the 7600X and 7700X. Similar performance, but at 65W instead of 105W, and likely much better temps.

 

[yuri69]

Turns out it really is a "bulldozer moment" somewhat.
Years of expectation, huge changes to the architecture, negative IPC slower than previous gen, only performs well under specific right circumstances (at least power is good), gives time to the competition to breath and strike back with calm.

Make me fear that Zen 6 and Zen 7 will be Piledrivers and Steamrollers.

​

Zen 5% is real.

Btw on Linux it is a different story (just like with Bulldozer): https://www.phoronix.com/review/ryzen-9600x-9700x

 

[gaav87]

@Josh128 Well just get 5800x3d and oc it to 2000IF to replace your 5950x and be done with it No need to spend extra on ram and mobo and you will be faster then zen5

 

[MarkPost]

TDP (PPT) was reduced. So you're getting the same performance at a lower power level. If you increase the power level to the same settings as 7000 series you will see gains. Is it enough to justify the price difference? Only each user can answer that.

yeah, thats the key



With these SKUs at stock (9600X, 9700X and 9900X), you'll have only a little better perfomance, but with a lot less power consumption. If you want to see good gains, crank up PPT.

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

Zen 5% is real.

Btw on Linux it is a different story (just like with Bulldozer): https://www.phoronix.com/review/ryzen-9600x-9700x

Unironically great uplift in browsers, what the hell.

 

[trexfromouterspace]

Zen 6 likely will, Zen 7 is a bit of an unknown given that it's developed by a different team.

It's flipping more rapidly

 

[In2Photos]

With these SKUs at stock (9600X, 9700X and 9900X), you'll have only a little better perfomance, but with a lot less power consumption. If you want to see good gains, crank up PPT.

The thing is, this type of information won't be available in most reviews today. We'll have to wait for the more in depth stuff in the weeks to come. But the naysayers will have already poo-pooed the CPUs by then.

 

[Gideon]

In Techpowerup review the 9600X at least seems to more consistently outperform 7600X in games (but the overall uplift remains quite similar ~4%

AMD Ryzen 5 9600X Review - The Best Sub-$300 Gaming CPU

The AMD Ryzen 5 9600X excels in energy efficiency and single-threaded performance. It offers great FPS for gamers and solid application performance. Our review confirms: at just $280, the 9600X is a compelling option against the pricier 7800X3D.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Heartbreaker]

HWUB Review: It's a side-grade. Price performance, you are better off with previous generation.

 

[KompuKare]

Zen 5% is real.

Btw on Linux it is a different story (just like with Bulldozer): https://www.phoronix.com/review/ryzen-9600x-9700x

Looks very much like s server first, server second, and server third design!

 

[coercitiv]

But the naysayers will have already poo-pooed the CPUs by then.

The first ones who poo-pooed this CPU were AMD. (at least from a marketing and launch window PoV)

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

In Techpowerup review the 9600X at least seems to more consistently outperform 7600X in games (but the overall uplift remains quite similar ~4%

AMD Ryzen 5 9600X Review - The Best Sub-$300 Gaming CPU

The AMD Ryzen 5 9600X excels in energy efficiency and single-threaded performance. It offers great FPS for gamers and solid application performance. Our review confirms: at just $280, the 9600X is a compelling option against the pricier 7800X3D.

www.techpowerup.com

Negligible gains, yeah. In some cases, it translates to 1 FPS gain.

 

[luro]

View attachment 104642

Hehehee

Lmao.

Man, I wish I could see the numbers these guys took these gains from.

 

[trexfromouterspace]

Lmao.

Man, I wish I could see the numbers these guys took these gains from.

They go to another school, in Canada

 

[MS_AT]

AT posted surprisingly high gain on gcc subtest of SPEC, tough compared to 7700, but it's 17 %

Edit:
They have also significantly updated details about the test environment for SPEC, newest CLANG, enabling AVX512 and specifying the WSL version used. Nice

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

The thing is, this type of information won't be available in most reviews today. We'll have to wait for the more in depth stuff in the weeks to come. But the naysayers will have already poo-pooed the CPUs by then.

Deservedly so. 2 years between CPUs and a brand new core for non-existent gains.
They could've achieved that by iterating on the existent core lol.

 

[Rheingold]

The SKUs have one problem: Despite apparent price reduction to the previous generation, they are too expensive:



If we apply the Scooby Doo Unmasking meme to the 9700X and 9600X, and correctly name them 9700 and 9600, then they are reaching the market at 30 USD more for the 8-core model and even 50 USD more for the 6-core model, compared to the previous generation models. That's why everybody correctly identifies them as too expensive, even before looking at obviously lower prices for the previous generation.

 

[leoneazzurro]

While as an upgrade path Zen5 is a "meh" (and it makes me wonder if N3 being too expensive atm is part of the cause for this) there are positives. Comparing it to the 7800X3D in gaming is just stupid, the gains are there if you look at the comparison with the 7700X-7800X (which consume more) and 7600X. Application performance is held back by the TDP decrease - and according to italian Hwupgrade review, the power consumption is quite different.

Ryzen 5 9600X e Ryzen 7 9700X alla prova: l'architettura Zen 5 imbrigliata dal TDP

Abbiamo provato le CPU AMD Ryzen 5 9600X e Ryzen 7 9700X per scoprire come si comporta l'architettura Zen 5. Rispetto al passato, scende il TDP in modo netto, una decisione salutare per i consumi e le temperature ma che impatta anche sulle prestazioni. Questi due modelli da 65 Watt ingabbiano un...

www.hwupgrade.it

Temperatures are also quite lower but for that there is also the new temperature monitoring system to take in account.
What's funny is that with Zen4 AMD was bashed because it raised the TDP to get more performance, now it is bashed because it tried to maximize efficiency at the expense of max performance.

 

[yottabit]

per TechPowerUp, 11% uplift 9700X (with unlimited PBO) over 7700X at RPCS3 PS3 emulation, AVX 512 enabled.... what is going on !?

https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-9700x/images/emulation-ps3.png

 

[FlameTail]

Okay guys. Time to move to the Zen6 Speculation thread.

 

[exquisitechar]

The worst part is that we’ll be stuck with this total dud of a core for years and Zen6 will only bring iterative improvements over it. At least improvements to the uncore will be something to look forward to.