Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[FlameTail]

Every AMD part since RMB (VGH, really) ships with the tumor.
Pluton is an offshoot of Xbox security processor so AMD shipping it was expected.

How much die area does that Pluton thijg use?

<5 mm² bet.

 

[adroc_thurston]

How much die area does that Pluton thijg use?

Super tiny.

<5 mm² bet.

Less, even.

 

[Philste]

Every AMD part since RMB (VGH, really) ships with the tumor.

X Elite seems to use it as well, I wonder how Intels does manage to avoid it, i would guess Microsoft could easily make them implement it.

 

[adroc_thurston]

X Elite seems to use it as well, I wonder how Intels does manage to avoid it, i would guess Microsoft could easily make them implement it.

I'm pretty sure LNL has Pluton.

 

[Philste]

I'm pretty sure LNL has Pluton

Charlies new Snapdragon Rant Article from today makes it sound like it doesn't, that's why im wondering.

 

[leoneazzurro]

I'm pretty sure LNL has Pluton.

Yep

This is Lunar Lake — Intel’s utterly overhauled AI laptop chip that ditches memory sticks

40-plus TOPS of AI performance is just the beginning.

www.theverge.com

(you have to search in the page)

 

[Fjodor2001]

Since TDP for 8C Zen5 CPUs is low at 65W, can we expect MT perf on 16C Zen5 to be high at 170W TDP compared to Zen4 16C? I’m thinking there will be more power budget per core on 16C Zen5 compared to the 8C variant (vs Zen4 which was 105W at 8C and 170W at 16C), so high perf on multiple cores for longer should be possible on 16C Zen5.

 

[Timmah!]

Since TDP for 8C Zen5 CPUs is low at 65W, can we expect MT perf on 16C Zen5 to be high at 170W TDP compared to Zen4 16C? I’m thinking there will be more power budget per core on 16C Zen5 compared to the 8C variant (vs Zen4 which was 105W at 8C and 170W at 16C), so high perf on multiple cores for longer should be possible on 16C Zen5.

Maybe something like Cinebench or Vray will run at 5,7GHz all-core 🙂

 

[gdansk]

Maybe something like Cinebench or Vray will run at 5,7GHz all-core 🙂

No, I doubt that

 

[Joe NYC]

I would like to point out one thing.

If the scores for Strix Point arer correct, and there is zero reason for them to be fake, or mistaken, then we are very close to 2060 mobile performance, and Zen 6 APUs might actually be within the range of that performance.

2060 is 6000 pts in 3D Mark TS. With 24 CUs/12 WGPs, and any form of SLC/Infinity cache - we might get it in an APU.

Strix Halo should be able to exceed it before Zen 6

 

[adroc_thurston]

Strix Halo should be able to exceed it before Zen 6

different swimlane for much more $$$.
Not comparable.

 

[PJVol]

Phoenix shows diminishing returns if it is allowed to go up to 72W almost as it it was a desktop APU:
72 / 54 = 1.33 power increase, 3218 / 2791 = 1.152 score increase

Really? )
Since when did performance increase linearly with power?

3712 / 4221 = 1.13 >> something in RDNA 3.5 consumes significantly less power

Or maybe the GFX clock in Rdna 3.5 decently higher than that in Rdna 3.0 GPU at the same power?
And btw, where does it state that these scores are "graphics"?

 

[Joe NYC]

different swimlane for much more $$$.
Not comparable.

From just eyeballing the Strix Point notebooks previewed / leaked, a lot of them come with NVidia GPU. Priced in $1500+ range. Which would make them at rough price parity with Strix Halo.

I hope there are also some Strix Point models without dGPU at lower prices...

 

[adroc_thurston]

From just eyeballing the Strix Point notebooks previewed / leaked, a lot of them come with NVidia GPU. Priced in $1500+ range. Which would make them at rough price parity with Strix Halo.

STX1 indeed explicitly targets >$1200 SRP.

I hope there are also some Strix Point models without dGPU at lower prices...

Yeah but they're a wee bit later.

 

[Abwx]

I hope there are also some Strix Point models without dGPU at lower prices...

Asus ZenBook S14/S16 as well as Vivobook S14/S15 are all four without dGPUs, other OEMs should follow suite as a mean to increase margins through cheaper yet same profit laptops.

ASUS introduces AMD Ryzen AI 300 "Strix Point" and Intel Core Ultra 200V "Lunar Lake" laptops - VideoCardz.com

NVIDIA’s RTX laptops with AMD CPUs Jensen’s spoils Lisa’s surprise. During his keynote, Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA, presented four new laptops set to be fully unveiled at Computex later today. These laptops, designed by ASUS and MSI, share two key features: NVIDIA GeForce RTX graphics and AMD...

videocardz.com

 

[PJVol]

2060 is 6000 pts in 3D Mark TS. With 24 CUs/12 WGPs, and any form of SLC/Infinity cache - we might get it in an APU.

If you meant to compare TS graphics scores, I didn't see it explicitly stated on the benchmarks page. They look more like an overall scores to me.

 

[adroc_thurston]

They look more like an overall scores to me.

Nope, ~3200 gfx score is about in line with top PHX scores (i.e. 1.21gigawatts into the iGP).
You can just lurk thru the 3dmark db anyway.

 

[PJVol]

Nope, ~3200 gfx score is about in line with top PHX scores (i.e. 1.21gigawatts into the iGP).
You can just lurk thru the 3dmark db anyway.

GPD Win Max 2 is 8840U. The top gfx scores are in 3000-3100 range. Top overall scores are 3300-3400
So, Nope.

3DMark.com search

3DMark.com search

www.3dmark.com

 

[adroc_thurston]

GPD Win Max 2 is 8840U. The top gfx scores are in 3000-3100 range

70W PHX is very much like 3.2k GFX score on the latest AGESA.
See all the freshes 7840HS results, they're up there.

 

[PJVol]

70W PHX is very much like 3.2k GFX score on the latest AGESA.
See all the freshes 7840HS results, they're up there.

Where did you get 70W from? Win max 2 is 8840U with cTDP 15-30W, not the 7840HS

 

[adroc_thurston]

Where did you get 70W from?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1802956563680014365

GPD itself literally quotes 72W results.
Which, yeah, in-line with juiced Phoenix on the latest AGESAs.

 

[PJVol]

GPD itself literally quotes 72W results.

May be so. It's just that the bar value usually means overall TS score unless explicitly stated otherwise.

 

[poke01]

The new 890M should be on par with M4 GPU performance wise.( I can why Apple focuses on gaming more in their keynotes their GPUs are no joke but it’s not plug and play using the toolkit. )

That 890M should rule windows ultrabook/handheld gaming for a while.

​

 

[Joe NYC]

The new 890M should be on par with M4 GPU performance wise.( I can why Apple focuses on gaming more in their keynotes their GPUs are no joke but it’s not plug and play using the toolkit. )

That 890M should rule windows ultrabook/handheld gaming for a while.

View attachment 101424​

What is the expectation for Lunar Lake iGPU. Vs. Meteor Lake and vs. Strix Point?

 

[adroc_thurston]

What is the expectation for Lunar Lake iGPU. Vs. Meteor Lake and vs. Strix Point?

Death.
It's a lower power outing with less oomph overall.
KRK versus LNL at 15W will be interesting nuff tho.