Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[igor_kavinski]

I am fairly sure AMD and Intel already reserved some PR event to coincide with SDX availability.

Wouldn't such a PR event from these two be construed by Microsoft as an attempt to rain on their parade, intensifying their cold war with the x86 players?

 

[Joe NYC]

I am fairly sure AMD and Intel already reserved some PR event to coincide with SDX availability.
The technical manuals and the arch details are not available even after announcement, which means AMD is withholding a lot of information to preempt any SDX publicity.

You would think that, but this is AMD marketing we are talking about.

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

Wouldn't such a PR event from these two be construed by Microsoft as an attempt to rain on their parade, intensifying their cold war with the x86 players?

Microsoft fired the first shot when they backstabbed Intel and AMD by making on-device Copilot+ features an SDX exclusive after they made them waste die space on it.

 

[igor_kavinski]

You would think that, but this is AMD marketing we are talking about.

So true. They bungled their biggest marketing opportunity at Computex. Or maybe that was their intention? To downplay the AI-less desktop Zen 5 CPU and drum up interest for Ryzen AI laptops? It's really hard to tell if they have a real well-thought out strategy or if someone in AMD Performance Labs messed up. For a company full of insanely brilliant people, I'm at a loss for words to describe what I witnessed in their Computex presentation (not Lisa though. I think she did excellent considering what she had to work with. I would love to know the frequency of her shaking her head in dismay during meetings with her marketing goons).

 

[igor_kavinski]

Microsoft fired the first shot when they backstabbed Intel and AMD by making on-device Copilot+ features an SDX exclusive after they made them waste die space on it.

Hopefully it's exclusive only till 15th July. How would a Ryzen AI laptop look without the ability to Recall?

 

[desrever]

downplay the AI-less desktop Zen 5 CPU and drum up interest for Ryzen AI laptops

Everyone is going to do this. AI is the new buzz word. If you don't focus on it, nobody will pay attention to you.

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

Hopefully it's exclusive only till 15th July. How would a Ryzen AI laptop look without the ability to Recall?

Better.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Microsoft fired the first shot when they backstabbed Intel and AMD by making Copilot+ an SDX exclusive after they made them waste die space on it.

It's timed gating, it'll be on x86 devices a bit later.

 

[coercitiv]

How would a Ryzen AI laptop look without the ability to Recall?

It would probably look like a considerably safer device:

Windows Recall demands an extraordinary level of trust that Microsoft hasn’t earned

Op-ed: The risks to Recall are way too high for security to be secondary.

arstechnica.com

Recall is a disaster in terms of security, it's so bad that the privacy concerns fade by comparison.

 

[biostud]

If the 7800X3D is on average 20-24% faster in gaming than the 7700X, then the 9700X would still end up slower or maybe on par with 7800X3D in gaming?

Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs. Ryzen 7 7800X3D, Ryzen 9 7900X3D and 7950X3D

As we've known for some time, the 5800X3D remains a strong gaming CPU that's roughly equivalent to the new Ryzen 7 7700X. But still, here's a broader...

www.techspot.com

 

[gdansk]

It would probably look like a considerably safer device:

Windows Recall demands an extraordinary level of trust that Microsoft hasn’t earned

Op-ed: The risks to Recall are way too high for security to be secondary.

arstechnica.com

Recall is a disaster in terms of security, it's so bad that the privacy concerns fade by comparison.

I don't disagree but for this whole marketing push it's pretty funny. Add a big NPU at Microsoft's behest and still don't get the feature on time (despite Microsoft saying how good their ML runtime are for these devices...)

 

[gdansk]

If the 7800X3D is on average 20-24% faster in gaming than the 7700X, then the 9700X would still end up slower or maybe on par with 7800X3D in gaming?

Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs. Ryzen 7 7800X3D, Ryzen 9 7900X3D and 7950X3D

As we've known for some time, the 5800X3D remains a strong gaming CPU that's roughly equivalent to the new Ryzen 7 7700X. But still, here's a broader...

www.techspot.com

Likely a bit slower, it's only 100MHz higher boost clock (than the 7700X)

 

[eek2121]

If the 7800X3D is on average 20-24% faster in gaming than the 7700X, then the 9700X would still end up slower or maybe on par with 7800X3D in gaming?

Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs. Ryzen 7 7800X3D, Ryzen 9 7900X3D and 7950X3D

As we've known for some time, the 5800X3D remains a strong gaming CPU that's roughly equivalent to the new Ryzen 7 7700X. But still, here's a broader...

www.techspot.com

Anyone’s guess. I would guess it will be faster in some and lower than others. Zen 5 X3D parts would be fastest of them all, but unfortunately we have a bit of a wait for those.

 

[eek2121]

It would probably look like a considerably safer device:

Windows Recall demands an extraordinary level of trust that Microsoft hasn’t earned

Op-ed: The risks to Recall are way too high for security to be secondary.

arstechnica.com

Recall is a disaster in terms of security, it's so bad that the privacy concerns fade by comparison.

It is actually ridiculous that they haven’t reversed course. You actually HAVE to opt in initially before you can opt out. Everything is super easy to read, so any old piece of malware could hook into it.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Zen 5 paired with high speed DDR5 could pose a threat to 7800X3D, possibly in games with streaming textures.

 

[igor_kavinski]

It is actually ridiculous that they haven’t reversed course. You actually HAVE to opt in initially before you can opt out. Everything is super easy to read, so any old piece of malware could hook into it.

Maybe they want to "learn" how it will get compromised so then they fortify it with an update. And another update. And another. And before they know it, it's round the clock updates! Their Recall team will become the most stressed out team in their organization. People will fear being put on that team, even experienced ones. The team will become infamous internally as "Microsoft Gulag".

 

[gdansk]

Zen 5 paired with high speed DDR5 could pose a threat to 7800X3D, possibly in games with streaming textures.

Is there any indication it supports higher speed DDR5 than previous versions?
I'm not too optimistic on that.

 

[H433x0n]

Zen 5 paired with high speed DDR5 could pose a threat to 7800X3D, possibly in games with streaming textures.

You sure about that? Daniel Owen did his best to do an apples to apples test with one of AMD's system's on display at Computex. His results were that the 7800X3D was 19.5% ahead of the 9900X in the AMD test system.

There's a ton of caveats here - a major one is that we don't know the memory used on the Zen 5 system.

 

[Hitman928]

You sure about that? Daniel Owen did his best to do an apples to apples test with one of AMD's system's on display at Computex. His results were that the 7800X3D was 19.5% ahead of the 9900X in the AMD test system.

There's a ton of caveats here - a major one is that we don't know the memory used on the Zen 5 system.

Much bigger caveat is we don't know what FSR (including frame generation) settings AMD used. Daniel tries to grope around in the dark to find what AMD might have used but I don't think there's anything convincing in that video that can give us a performance comparison with any kind of confidence.

 

[inf64]

You sure about that? Daniel Owen did his best to do an apples to apples test with one of AMD's system's on display at Computex. His results were that the 7800X3D was 19.5% ahead of the 9900X in the AMD test system.

There's a ton of caveats here - a major one is that we don't know the memory used on the Zen 5 system.

Or even bigger one - we don't know the settings AMD used in the test. The YT guy was just guessing, like everybody else is.

Edit: Hitman beat me to it.

 

[Joe NYC]

So true. They bungled their biggest marketing opportunity at Computex. Or maybe that was their intention? To downplay the AI-less desktop Zen 5 CPU and drum up interest for Ryzen AI laptops? It's really hard to tell if they have a real well-thought out strategy or if someone in AMD Performance Labs messed up. For a company full of insanely brilliant people, I'm at a loss for words to describe what I witnessed in their Computex presentation (not Lisa though. I think she did excellent considering what she had to work with. I would love to know the frequency of her shaking her head in dismay during meetings with her marketing goons).

AMD could have offered more transparency on the Zen 5 desktop chips, but it is the Strix Point laptop chip is where AMD is going to make most money.

But I am with you on the fact that AMD's presentations have gotten worse and worse. Less and less technical info, more and more cringe partner presentations...

If you have a product with good tech specs, then present the tech specs...

 

[igor_kavinski]

Is there any indication it supports higher speed DDR5 than previous versions?
I'm not too optimistic on that.

It has to if they wanna sell their shiny new mobos.

 

[Joe NYC]

It's timed gating, it'll be on x86 devices a bit later.

Or AMD specific gating?

Since Intel does not have Lunar Lake for sale yet...

 

[adroc_thurston]

Or AMD specific gating?

Since Intel does not have Lunar Lake for sale yet...

No, just x86 being thrown into ghetto for very esoteric reasons.

 

[igor_kavinski]

His results were that the 7800X3D was 19.5% ahead of the 9900X in the AMD test system.

9900X could be dragged down by inter CCX latency if the game uses more than 6 cores.