Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[Doug S]

That's bull.
It's just expensive.

A process with 60% yields is broken.

 

[Tigerick]

A process with 60% yields is broken.

• As for yield issue, CEO of TSMC has addressed in Q3 2023's financial seminar:- "N3 is already in volume production with good yield and we are seeing a strong ramp in the second half of this year, supported by both HPC and smartphone applications"

You want to believe what the rumored said or CEO of TSMC CEO said?

 

[Tigerick]

Btw where would Strix Halo even fit in current laptop configurations, wouldn't it really unfortunately get paired with a dGPU system unless Lenovo makes a special exception or something

Based on leaks, Sarlak's GPU performance is at the range of RX7600M, I don't think any OEMs would pair with dGPU. I used to speculate what could be the specs below:-

 

[S'renne]

Based on leaks, Sarlak's GPU performance is at the range of RX7600M, I don't think any OEMs would pair with dGPU. I used to speculate what could be the specs below:-

View attachment 93775

I mean they paired the Remembrandt CPUs with dGPUs when the actual upgrades is its iGPU. And do we know anything about Strix Halo's configs besides the highest end configuration with 16 Zen 5 and 40CU? I mean 8 + 4c for a lower spec configuration is nice too, but the iGPU CUs though...also I'm just mostly looking at Legions for best Linux compatiability anyways and that's why I'm worried.

Otherwise thanks? But the prices are really off for your speculations, and LPCAMM 2 from Crucial seems to be the only logical RAM module that would be paired with this APU, with 128 bit LPCAMM 2 9600 per module(for a full 256 bit with 2 modules), otherwise a slightly odd 24~48GB RAM config from SK Hynix

 

[Tigerick]

I mean they paired the Remembrandt CPUs with dGPUs when the actual upgrades is its iGPU. And do we know anything about Strix Halo's configs besides the highest end configuration with 16 Zen 5 and 40CU? I mean 8 + 4c for a lower spec configuration is nice too, but the iGPU CUs though...also I'm just mostly looking at Legions for best Linux compatiability anyways and that's why I'm worried.

Otherwise thanks? But the prices are really off for your speculations, and LPCAMM 2 from Crucial seems to be the only logical RAM module that would be paired with this APU, with 128 bit LPCAMM 2 9600 per module(for a full 256 bit with 2 modules), otherwise a slightly odd 24~48GB RAM config from SK Hynix

I don't think ASUS will choose LPCAAMM2 for Sarlak model, on-board LPDDR5X would be better choice for such price range. Anyhow, we shall see how the outcome later...

 

[S'renne]

I don't think ASUS will choose LPCAAMM2 for Sarlak model, on-board LPDDR5X would be better choice for such price range. Anyhow, we shall see how the outcome later...

Well Lenovo is going LPCAMM2 I think cus I found that Crucial has a partnership with Lenovo to implement that technology, just I really want a dGPU-less laptop with the Sarlak model, and if the 8/12 core configuration isnt a huge CU downgrade it's a win for me as a mid ranges gaming machine

 

[FlameTail]

It remotely makes no sense for Strix Halo to come paired with a dGPU in a laptop.

If you really want 16 Zen5 cores + dGPU, then Fire Range is the way to go.

 

[S'renne]

It remotely makes no sense for Strix Halo to come paired with a dGPU in a laptop.

If you really want 16 Zen5 cores + dGPU, then Fire Range is the way to go.

Well don't ask me ask the OEMs that put Remembrandt with dGPUs instead of slimmer ultrabooks/ultra low end dGPU-less gaming machines lol

 

[StefanR5R]

Read this on why Cinebench is a poor standard CPU benchmark from Ex-Anandtech Andrei F:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/pitid6

This is not from Andrei F. Its from some guy who can't quote. A terrible read.

 

[dr1337]

I mean they paired the Remembrandt CPUs with dGPUs when the actual upgrades is its iGPU

A 4gb 3050 is much faster than a 780m, let alone the 680m. But even in that case it still makes sense to have decent graphics on the APU so you can do things like drive a 4k display without firing up the GPU. Strix halo should blow 90% of current gaming laptops out of the water in terms of graphics. It's different with a chip of this class.


Also its gonna be the most expensive APU AMD has ever offered to the OEMs, to pair it with a GPU would only happen in something like a giant $8k alienware laptop.

 

[mikegg]

This is not from Andrei F. Its from some guy who can't quote. A terrible read.

Who cares? The content is from Andrei F.

Cinebench is a terrible general purpose CPU benchmark. One of the worst. It does not correlate with anything most consumers use.

Here's exactly what Andrei F said:

AnandTech does not disagree.

I heavily favour Geekbench over Cinebench and very much agree with what's being said by OP.

 

[FlameTail]

But does it apply to Geekbench as well?

 

[S'renne]

A 4gb 3050 is much faster than a 780m, let alone the 680m. But even in that case it still makes sense to have decent graphics on the APU so you can do things like drive a 4k display without firing up the GPU. Strix halo should blow 90% of current gaming laptops out of the water in terms of graphics. It's different with a chip of this class.


Also its gonna be the most expensive APU AMD has ever offered to the OEMs, to pair it with a GPU would only happen in something like a giant $8k alienware laptop.

Its definitely not going to beat 90% of gaming laptops, lower wattage means its just gonna be next gen entry or mid range graphics at best generously, and Remebrandt's efficiency is meant for thinner/lighter machines is my point. It will be even less competitive if AMD doesnt make enough of it like their Rx 7000 mobile GPUs too. Ah well at least general consensus is it should be the first x86 APU without dGPU in gaming laptops, but whether it uses LPDDR5T or LPCAMM 2 is OEM dependant

 

[StefanR5R]

Who cares?

I cared: You said "read this why...". I went there to find out why. What I found was a terrible read. (Terrible as an explanation of the characteristics of Cinebench; terrible because the guy doesn't quote the conversation properly; terrible because the reddit interface to the conversation below the OP is complete garbage.)

Here's exactly what Andrei F said:

And your quote is even worse because it removed even more context.

At least from now on you are no longer left to believe that the reason for Cinebench being bad for representative benchmarking was because of an alleged x86 AVX bias. (Edit, PS: It is representative for image rendering of small(ish) scenes on CPUs, and that's about it.)

 

[mikegg]

I cared: You said "read this why...". I went there to find out why. What I found was a terrible read. (Terrible as an explanation of the characteristics of Cinebench; terrible because the guy doesn't quote the conversation properly; terrible because the reddit interface to the conversation below the OP is complete garbage.)


And your quote is even worse because it removed even more context.

At least from now on you are no longer left to believe that the reason for Cinebench being bad for representative benchmarking was because of an alleged x86 AVX bias. (Edit, PS: It is representative for image rendering of small(ish) scenes on CPUs, and that's about it.)

Weird how people are so attached to a benchmark.

Yikes.

Cinebench does not correlate with SPEC. SPEC Is the industry's standard. SPEC correlates with Geekbench. We know Cinebench inflates AMD numbers. That's why it's so popular here.

 

[Jan Olšan]

Depends, CB15 was helping Zen 1, but is it really inflating? It just had the SSE* performance and threads to shine in it.
Current CB is more often believed to favor Intel. There was a move in scores in favor of Intel cores, since CB15, and Cinebench is also one of the best scenarios for hybrid archtecture, as the uneven core performance doesn't matter to it in the least.

 

[inf64]

Weird how people are so attached to a benchmark.

Yikes.

Cinebench does not correlate with SPEC. SPEC Is the industry's standard. SPEC correlates with Geekbench. We know Cinebench inflates AMD numbers. That's why it's so popular here.

That is not correct. 1T results in Cinebench do not correlate with SPEC 1 rate when it comes to Raptor Lake and Zen 4 (which are basically neck and neck in Spec but Raptor Lake leads in Cinebench). I'm referring to the performance per clock.

 

[StefanR5R]

Weird how people are so attached to a benchmark.

I for one am not one of those people, in case you haven't realized. I do not care how useful or useless Cinebench is. I cared how useful your reddit link might have been in this discussion and went away disappointed, nothing more.

 

[StefanR5R]

SPEC correlates with Geekbench.

What SPEC? You are obviously referring to SPEC CPU, and probably the current version, but: It has got fourty-three benchmarks which are organized into four suites. You can run it 1-instance 1-threaded, n-threaded, or n-instances. Furthermore you can run "base" builds or "peak" builds.

 

[FlameTail]

SPEC correlates with Geekbench.

mikegg is not the first, nor the best to make this claim.

This has been said by more experienced and knowledgeable people a long time ago.

 

[Glo.]

It remotely makes no sense for Strix Halo to come paired with a dGPU in a laptop.

If you really want 16 Zen5 cores + dGPU, then Fire Range is the way to go.

It makes no sense for Sarlak/Strix Halo to come paired with dGPU anywhere, not just a laptop.

 

[FlameTail]

It makes no sense for Sarlak/Strix Halo to come paired with dGPU anywhere, not just a laptop.

It makes sense for MLID's future laptop to have that combo!

AMD CPU + AMD iGPU + AMD GPU

FULL AMD BABYYY!!

 

[Glo.]

It makes sense for MLID's future laptop to have that combo!

AMD CPU + AMD iGPU + AMD GPU

FULL AMD BABYYY!!

Yep, and iGPU is stronger than dGPU!

 

[coercitiv]

It makes no sense for Sarlak/Strix Halo to come paired with dGPU anywhere, not just a laptop.

Cue the OEM desktop with weaker dGPU and single channel memory. Mandatory AI label though, those TOPS ain't gonna sell themselves!

 

[StefanR5R]

SPEC correlates with Geekbench.

[...] This has been said by more experienced and knowledgeable people a long time ago.

I suspect these knowledgeable people have been a bit more specific than that.
Also, "a long time ago" is in the eye of the beholder. A "very" long time ago, knowledgeable people had something else to say about Geekbench.