Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[Joe NYC]

it's called Sonoma Valley and has been leaked over 2 years ago.
You're welcome.

So that's what it is. Tom from MLID said that he heard that name Sonoma in relation to future AMD product but wasn't sure what it was related to...

 

[Saylick]

So that's what it is. Tom from MLID said that he heard that name Sonoma in relation to future AMD product but wasn't sure what it was related to...

Inb4 Tom says his "insider sources" now tells him that it's SS 4nm Zen 5c.

 

[soresu]

since Zen 5c is more power optimized silicon similar to ARM cores

Area optimisation seems to have been the main concern in the Zenxc core design philosophy to better compete with the higher core counts that ARM Neoverse etc solutions can field, and in that they have certainly excelled.

 

[soresu]

AMD will test It on something which is not a very important product.

Sounds perfect for a Mendochino successor.

 

[H433x0n]

Actually there s an ARM core in their CPUs for security purposes.

I think you’re probably talking about the HSM (hardware security module). Yes, that’s most likely ARM based. I’ve had to hack these in Tricore, PowerPC & x86 processors as part of my job and they’ve always been ARM ISA. These aren’t developed by the people who created the processor but are purchased IP.

 

[Joe NYC]

Inb4 Tom says his "insider sources" now tells him that it's SS 4nm Zen 5c.

Well, he was honest to to say he had no idea what it was referring to, even how it was spelled.

 

[moinmoin]

I think you’re probably talking about the HSM (hardware security module). Yes, that’s most likely ARM based. I’ve had to hack these in Tricore, PowerPC & x86 processors as part of my job and they’ve always been ARM ISA. These aren’t developed by the people who created the processor but are purchased IP.

It's the PSP implementing ARM's TrustZone using a Cortex-A5.

 

[Saylick]

Sounds perfect for a Mendochino successor.

Could honestly use it for the next Steam Deck and other handheld gaming devices as well. Eight Zen 5c cores at 3.5 GHz on a cheap SS node is quite potent, especially since they also have experience with RDNA on a Samsung node via Exynos.

 

[adroc_thurston]

So that's what it is. Tom from MLID said that he heard that name Sonoma in relation to future AMD product but wasn't sure what it was related to...

who cares about random e-beggars.

Actually there s an ARM core in their CPUs for security purposes.

It's a TrustZone implementation and not something AMD actually did in-house.

Eight Zen 5c cores at 3.5 GHz on a cheap SS node is quite potent

it's an OK option but Valve can pay real money.

since they also have experience with RDNA on a Samsung node via Exynos.

No they don't, AMD has diddle squat to do with RDNA2/3/whatever implementation on Exynos, that's all on S.LSI.
They only provide the IP.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Could honestly use it for the next Steam Deck and other handheld gaming devices as well. Eight Zen 5c cores at 3.5 GHz on a cheap SS node is quite potent, especially since they also have experience with RDNA on a Samsung node via Exynos.

Valve wouldn't use It for Steam Deck 2.
SS node is worse than TSMC node, right?
It would negatively affect power consumption, which is critical in a handheld.

 

[FlameTail]

Where do you guys reckon Strix Halo's Geekebench ST performance will land at?



Closer to Strix Point or closer to Fire Range? Or somewhere in between?

Historically, AMD's mobile APUs have had less ST performance than their desktop counterparts, due to lower clock speeds.

 

[itsmydamnation]

Sigh.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Where do you guys reckon Strix Halo's Geekebench ST performance will land at?

View attachment 88990

Closer to Strix Point or closer to Fire Range? Or somewhere in between?

Historically, AMD's mobile APUs have had less ST performance than their desktop counterparts, due to lower clock speeds.

What you posted is supposedly the mobile roadmap, no desktop parts there.
Strix Halo with 16 cores will be comparable to Fire Range with 16 cores.

 

[FlameTail]

Ooh there's a substantial 200 point gap between 7945HX and 7950X.

My mistake. I assumed they were much closer.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Closer to Strix Point or closer to Fire Range?

ze latter, it's a full LLC part after all.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

View attachment 88994View attachment 88995View attachment 88996

Ooh there's a substantial 200 point gap between 7945HX and 7950X.

My mistake. I assumed they were much closer.

Can't you make It larger? I can barely read It!

PS. There is a button called spoiler, or just make those pictures smaller, they are ridiculously big.

 

[Fjodor2001]

So Black Friday is now. Decision time.

With regards to AM5 desktop Zen5, what are your expectations for the main properties compared to Zen4:

1. ST performance increase
2. MT performance increase
3. Core count increase (for top SKU)
4. Introduction of big.LITTLE?
5. Power consumption & perf/watt
6. Price increase or decrease, for same corresponding SKU (e.g. 7950X3D vs 8950X3D)
7. And perhaps most important: Release date of Zen5
8. Anything else?

For anyone considering either buying Zen4 during BF at a discount now, or waiting 6+ months for Zen5, answers are needed!

 

[Thunder 57]

So Black Friday is now. Decision time.

With regards to AM5 desktop Zen5, what are your expectations for the main properties compared to Zen4:

1. ST performance increase
2. MT performance increase
3. Core count increase (for top SKU)
4. Introduction of big.LITTLE?
5. Power consumption & perf/watt
6. Price increase or decrease, for same corresponding SKU (e.g. 7950X3D vs 8950X3D)
7. And perhaps most important: Release date of Zen5
8. Anything else?

For anyone considering either buying Zen4 during BF at a discount now, or waiting 6+ months for Zen5, answers are needed!

1. No idea. 12-15%
2. Same, no clue. 25%
3. 16
4. No (at least at launch)
5. Same power consumption, slightly better performance/watt
6. I think the same as Zen 4 launch prices. Not as big a shock this time around as DDR5 is cheaper and motherboards are more available.
7. March-April 2024
8. No 3D at launch. Similar frquences. 3D may be slightly higher than Zen 4.

I wouldn't call this educated guesses. Just looking at history.

EDIT. I forgot to include 5.

 

[igor_kavinski]

8. Anything else?

This is the most important question so I will only answer this one.

Buying Zen 4 doesn't lock you into a permanent marriage with that chip. You can easily do an in-place upgrade down the line to a cheaper Zen 5 or Zen 6 during a future sale season, maybe even 3 years later and get your system to last as much as 2 years more without going through the pain of re-installing everything. Zen 4 buys you peace of mind, now and for the future. (<<<< AMD, I better see a check in my inbox for that slogan!)

 

[Fjodor2001]

Zen 4 buys you peace of mind, now and for the future.

Yes, unless Zen5 will launch close in time and provides much better performance for a good price compared to Zen 4.

 

[CakeMonster]

That's why you buy on release, at least now when prices mostly stay the same until the next gen.

 

[adroc_thurston]

1. ST performance increase

>25%.

2. MT performance increase

Same as 1T.

3. Core count increase (for top SKU)

None.

4. Introduction of big.LITTLE?

Mobile-only and quite literally forever at that.

5. Power consumption & perf/watt

More power, more perf/W still. Same as Turin.

6. Price increase or decrease, for same corresponding SKU (e.g. 7950X3D vs 8950X3D)

You'll pay more and you'll like it.

7. And perhaps most important: Release date of Zen5

~April'24 or therein.

 

[Joe NYC]

So Black Friday is now. Decision time.

With regards to AM5 desktop Zen5, what are your expectations for the main properties compared to Zen4:

1. ST performance increase
2. MT performance increase
3. Core count increase (for top SKU)
4. Introduction of big.LITTLE?
5. Power consumption & perf/watt
6. Price increase or decrease, for same corresponding SKU (e.g. 7950X3D vs 8950X3D)
7. And perhaps most important: Release date of Zen5
8. Anything else?

For anyone considering either buying Zen4 during BF at a discount now, or waiting 6+ months for Zen5, answers are needed!

On desktop, I would expect everything identical except the core. Core counts, models, prices same.

If Zen 5 launches in 6 months, then you will want to wait for Zen 5 x3d, which can be another 6 months later. So, it is either Zen 4 (7800x3d) now or 8800x3d a year from now.

7800x3d is on sale now, but 1 year from now, 8800x3d will be newly introduced, and not on sale. Full MSRP.

I think 7800x3d now looks good now, and maybe in 18-24 months, in place upgrade to 8800x3d (when it is on sale).

 

[H433x0n]

>25%.

Does this mean we’re getting closer to knowing production fmax? Would 5.3ghz be an accurate guess for 1T fmax? Or am I too high/low?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Does this mean we’re getting closer to knowing production fmax?

Yeah.

Or am I too high/low?

My numbers are a fair bit below the real ones so you can try guessing either way.