Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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That's not what you said. Your curt responses are rather annoying. You said "clocks don't matter" than moved the goalposts to "+/- 2% clock delta on the top end is irrelevant". No cookie for you!
+/- 2% is within margin of error, so badgering him about it is more annoying and wrong IMO. If you were trying to be funny, its not to me, and disrespectful of his leaks, again IMO.
 

Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
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+/- 2% is within margin of error, so badgering him about it is more annoying and wrong IMO. If you were trying to be funny, its not to me, and disrespectful of his leaks, again IMO.

I don't know what to say to you @Markfw. "Badgering him" when all he does is give us short angry answers? Not trying to be funny. "Disrepectful of his leaks"? are you kidding? Let's wait and see if any of the "leaks" pan out. SMH I thought you were better.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
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That's better than those that say >35% - who I think should be shot and then thrown off a cliff ;-) From what has been rumored, same process (mostly), same ~frequency, same approx die size. There is no magic in processor design. Physical and electrical limits cannot be transcended Still, Mike Clarks excitement (atypically just after Zen4 processors were introduced) counts for something.
 

yuri69

Senior member
Jul 16, 2013
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Still, Mike Clarks excitement (atypically just after Zen4 processors were introduced) counts for something.
TBH it was said in context of how hard is to design and adapt things so many years in advance of the release - when you see the stuff in the design phase it seems to be out of this world compared to what is on the shelves.

Although, Zen 5 being a new design is undeniably more exciting than Zen 4 is.
 
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Joe NYC

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Jun 26, 2021
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Well no, Strix-Halo is not intended for dGPU luggables. lol.

Well, the Fire Range laptops are likely to have dGPU while Srix Halo not, so that would be the reason to offer both. But really only dGPUs with higher performance than Strix Halo would make sense for OEMs to make.

Do I always have to ruin your dreams?

Well, it was not on the roadmap shown by MLID, so I wasn't expecting it. But IMO, it is a mistake.

Very slowly, the V-Cache is getting established as a feature to get the gaming performance among wider and wider audience. It has taken some time, but I think it is happening now.

So then, to release a "Halo" product with this feature missing = AMD shooting itself in the foot.
 
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Jul 27, 2020
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AMD shooting itself in the foot.
They are very good at that.

They could have made Intel+nGreedia gaming laptops very unattractive for the average gamer by releasing something like a 7800HX3D + RX 7800 non-XT 16GB in a laptop form factor with tame power consumption. But no. They have every advantage in the world right now with Intel gasping for air from a design standpoint but they will doggedly chase servers despite knowing full well that a lot of companies will pay double for Intel servers that cost double to run.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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Well, the Fire Range laptops are likely to have dGPU while Srix Halo not, so that would be the reason to offer both. But really only dGPUs with higher performance than Strix Halo would make sense for OEMs to make

This is gonna sound stupid but I don't think you will see Strix Halo in the gamer brand laptops. So there will be plenty of room for Fire Range.

Instead mainly MBP wannabe $2k+ ones.
 
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TESKATLIPOKA

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May 1, 2020
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Well, the Fire Range laptops are likely to have dGPU while Srix Halo not, so that would be the reason to offer both. But really only dGPUs with higher performance than Strix Halo would make sense for OEMs to make.
And this is based on what?
Do you know how this IGP performs? No
Do you know how much It will cost? No
Yet, you already have a conclusion about Fire Range + weaker dGPUs making no sense for OEMs.

Well, it was not on the roadmap shown by MLID, so I wasn't expecting it. But IMO, it is a mistake.


Very slowly, the V-Cache is getting established as a feature to get the gaming performance among wider and wider audience. It has taken some time, but I think it is happening now.

So then, to release a "Halo" product with this feature missing = AMD shooting itself in the foot.
And AMD shot Itself because?
If you say something like this, you should at least back It up with something.

That V-cache is only useful for gaming, but you also need such a GPU, a 40CU IGP is hardly that.

For just the CPU this V-cache is not really important, It doesn't have a big impact on performance, performs like a 300-350MHz higher clocked 7700.
It also doesn't look like It really helps in reducing power consumption. It has only 5W lower power draw in blender than 7700, which can be attributed to lower clocks. TPU
So my conclusion is there is not a good enough reason in using It for Strix Halo.
 
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adroc_thurston

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Jul 2, 2023
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But really only dGPUs with higher performance than Strix Halo would make sense for OEMs to make.
oh god no, STX-halo is a specialty product that insofar doesn't replace mainstream dGPs.
Very slowly, the V-Cache is getting established as a feature to get the gaming performance among wider and wider audience. It has taken some time, but I think it is happening now.
why would you need V$ on a part that's gonna be GPU-limited 98.3% of the time.
They could have made Intel+nGreedia gaming laptops very unattractive for the average gamer by releasing something like a 7800HX3D + RX 7800 non-XT 16GB in a laptop form factor with tame power consumption.
RDNA3 is anything but tame power consumption, what the hell are you on.
They have every advantage in the world right now with Intel gasping for air from a design standpoint
AMD dGP laptop offerings can be counted with a single hand my man.
They have nowhere the track record of executing mobile designs.
 

Joe NYC

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Jun 26, 2021
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They are very good at that.

They could have made Intel+nGreedia gaming laptops very unattractive for the average gamer by releasing something like a 7800HX3D + RX 7800 non-XT 16GB in a laptop form factor with tame power consumption. But no. They have every advantage in the world right now with Intel gasping for air from a design standpoint but they will doggedly chase servers despite knowing full well that a lot of companies will pay double for Intel servers that cost double to run.

That does seem like a sweet setup. But, is AMD even offering a mobile version of 7800 XT dGPU? I am not sure if it has been introduced.

As far as incremental revenue from different segments, I think you may be right as far as servers being the hardest to gain incremental revenue, but I may be underestimating what is in Genoa pipeline. The increases may just be really starting this quarter (Q4).

But datacenter GPU and client CPU, IMO, have the most of the low hanging fruit. Client CPU could easily be at the same pace (or better) in Q4 of gaining additional $400-$500 million of revenue, same as datacenter GPU.
 

Joe NYC

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Jun 26, 2021
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And this is based on what?
Do you know how this IGP performs? No

The rumors say 6600 to 6700+ level of performance

Or perhaps somewhere between 7600 to 7700 XP, using more recent cards

Do you know how much It will cost? No
Yet, you already have a conclusion about Fire Range + weaker dGPUs making no sense for OEMs.

We don't know how AMD is going to price these, but AMD costs of Fire Range + 7600 8 GB of VRAM is likely going to be higher than Strix Halo and deliver lower performance. So a sub-optimal set up.

Very large notebooks with >= 7700 XP would make more sense.

And AMD shot Itself because?
If you say something like this, you should at least back It up with something.

You know that Intel is not going to leave anything on the table to get top level performance. AMD has this arrogance (only in client CPU market), that it is ok to leave performance on the table.

That V-cache is only useful for gaming, but you also need such a GPU, a 40CU IGP is hardly that.

For just the CPU this V-cache is not really important, It doesn't have a big impact on performance, performs like a 300-350MHz higher clocked 7700.
It also doesn't look like It really helps in reducing power consumption. It has only 5W lower power draw in blender than 7700, which can be attributed to lower clocks. TPU
So my conclusion is there is not a good enough reason in using It for Strix Halo.

The last 300-350 MHz are always the most costly, as far as power consumption. So being able to perform equally with lower clock speed (and lower power) is what you want in mobile.

I think it would make sense to offer 1 CCD version of Strix Halo with V-Cache and target that for gaming.
 
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SteinFG

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Dec 29, 2021
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We don't know how AMD is going to price these, but AMD costs of Fire Range + 7600 8 GB of VRAM is likely going to be higher than Strix Halo and deliver lower performance. So a sub-optimal set up.
Fire range is already niche, only used with high end GPUs. you need to compare the cost to Phoenix + dGPU. And Phoenix wins there
 

TESKATLIPOKA

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May 1, 2020
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The rumors say 6600 to 6700+ level of performance

Or perhaps somewhere between 7600 to 7700 XP, using more recent cards

We don't know how AMD is going to price these, but AMD costs of Fire Range + 7600 8 GB of VRAM is likely going to be higher than Strix Halo and deliver lower performance. So a sub-optimal set up.

Very large notebooks with >= 7700 XP would make more sense.
As I said we don't know how It will really perform or cost compared to CPU+dGPU.
I also wouldn't be so sure that Strix Halo is really cheaper to make than Fire Range + 7600. Fire Range will keep the IOD from Dragon range If I am not mistaken.
You know that Intel is not going to leave anything on the table to get top level performance. AMD has this arrogance (only in client CPU market), that it is ok to leave performance on the table.
Intel has nothing comparable to Strix Halo. It can be only CPU+dGPU combo, so fire Range should be Its competitor.
The last 300-350 MHz are always the most costly, as far as power consumption. So being able to perform equally with lower clock speed (and lower power) is what you want in mobile.
TOP Dragon Range is clocked 300MHz lower than desktop counterparts, so It's not exactly the last 300-350MHz. ;)
And ~5% higher performance at the same power doesn't look worth it If the price would be $100-200 higher.