Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[adroc_thurston]

That would be worse than the original Nuvia was projected to be

That was always pure hopium and their target had a ton of leeway anyway.

I'm pretty skeptical of that

It is what it is, QC's been sampling 8cx g4 for some time now.

2024 will be funny but also bad since it's the year of CPU competition dying out.

 

[SpudLobby]

I'm pretty skeptical of that. That would be worse than the original Nuvia was projected to be. Though I guess if anyone could take their work and screw it up, it would be Qualcomm!

Well the Nuvia Phoenix core is labeled with a thick blue bar on their original chart, which indicates that it has a range of possible performance/power characteristics in their projection.

But yeah it's 2023 and the part won't be released until apparently later in 2024, so this is definitely lol on the performance end because I think we all expect them to at least match Apple of 2020 instead of coming in 13-14% behind on IPC. I think efficiency will still be solid though.

 

[Thibsie]

We

I'm pretty skeptical of that. That would be worse than the original Nuvia was projected to be. Though I guess if anyone could take their work and screw it up, it would be Qualcomm!

Well, it was long rumoured the team is s basically no more and QC at fault 'cos an idiot had an ego the size of Jensen.

 

[itsmydamnation]

who is the other big spam core then , Tenstorrent ?

 

[adroc_thurston]

who is the other big spam core then , Tenstorrent ?

It's a whole club now.
Ventana, AMD, Intel, Apple, Tenstorrent, Qualcomm, ARM.
Did I forget someone?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Did I forget someone?

Maybe Mediatek?

 

[itsmydamnation]

It's a whole club now.
Ventana, AMD, Intel, Apple, Tenstorrent, Qualcomm, ARM.
Did I forget someone?

how about a rephrase , who else is doing it well ?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Maybe Mediatek?

They don't do custom cores.

how about a rephrase , who else is doing it well ?

Apple is suck is still doing well.
AMD will do the funny next year.
Rest, ugh.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

Will there be updated chipsets for Z5?

No.

PROM21 will have a long life yes.

That's interesting. I heard a long time ago that there was a PCIe 5.0 chipset project running in parallel with PROM21 by a different vendor, but that was delayed so much that the first gen of boards shipped only with PROM21. I would have thought that if that chip got delivered, it would ship as the x700 series. Do you know what's up with that? As in, was the rumor wrong, did they cancel the whole project, or what?

 

[SteinFG]

That's interesting. I heard a long time ago that there was a PCIe 5.0 chipset project running in parallel with PROM21 by a different vendor, but that was delayed so much that the first gen of boards shipped only with PROM21. I would have thought that if that chip got delivered, it would ship as the x700 series. Do you know what's up with that? As in, was the rumor wrong, did they cancel the whole project, or what?

Never heard of this.

 

[A///]

it was mediatek who were involved but their plans never went through.

 

[igor_kavinski]

it was mediatek who were involved but their plans never went through.

I hate that name coz of how much my Mediayuk SoC freezes in my daily use phone. The only thing worse I've experienced is RockbottomChip. Never experienced Unisoc.

 

[Thibsie]

I dunno if the problem is the cheap chip or the cheap development that often comes with those.

 

[DrMrLordX]

They don't do custom cores.

Okay, so what? They don't need to do custom cores. A lot of Qualcomm's WARM stuff isn't really custom either. At least the cores aren't.

 

[poke01]

Apple P cores are crazy small compared to Intels and a bit smaller than AMD Zen4.

Qualcomm custom cores coming late this year.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Apple P cores are crazy small compared to Intels and a bit smaller than AMD Zen4.

Yea because Apple is pretty good at core design and their freq targets are low.
Zen5c is also sorta comparable area.

Qualcomm custom cores coming late this year.

Late next year.
And copenix looks awful either way.

 

[A///]

And copenix looks awful either way.

Can't get awful without throwing "cope" in the name of your cores.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Can't get awful without throwing "cope" in the name of your cores.

It is what it is, ex-Firestorm team went elsewhere and made what looks like a worse Firestorm.
Expectations were high and the final product is ehhhh.

 

[A///]

It is what it is, ex-Firestorm team went elsewhere and made what looks like a worse Firestorm.
Expectations were high and the final product is ehhhh.

while I wouldn't call them one hit wonders, good design means it can be stretched out and integration of better ip in future. a better way to say this would be teams need a long good track record of firsts and advancements.

 

[adroc_thurston]

while I wouldn't call them one hit wonders

Was a very consistent team at Apple.
Just that Phoenix is not it.

 

[Doug S]

It is what it is, ex-Firestorm team went elsewhere and made what looks like a worse Firestorm.
Expectations were high and the final product is ehhhh.

I guess the lead and a couple higher ups jumping ship doesn't translate into enough depth throughout the whole team to create an equivalent or better design. Frank Gehry can design an amazing building, but he needs top people under him handling the details of how the wiring and plumbing works in those wild wavy walls, engineers to figure out how it is supported, and then construction foremen who can direct all the workers in how to do something different than the norm.

Things don't work quite as you planned and suddenly you have to add an extra cycle of latency here, sacrifice a bit of clock speed there, and eventually you are getting something no better than what ARM licenses out to everyone.

 

[adroc_thurston]

I guess the lead and a couple higher ups jumping ship

A solid chunk of the team left to Nuvia, kek.
Just that they've underdelivered a fair bit.

 

[soresu]

Was a very consistent team at Apple.
Just that Phoenix is not it.

Any idea on if Cortex X5 is likely to beat it?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Any idea on if Cortex X5 is likely to beat it?

Well X4 beats it so...

 

[soresu]

Just that they've underdelivered a fair bit.

From what I remember Nuvia's OG focus was an ARM64 server core so it doesn't seem a stretch that design specs were altered negatively to favor QC's WARMtop/smartphone focus instead.