Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[adroc_thurston]

Why would it be expensive?

Because RPL-U 282 is just that cheap.

 

[H433x0n]

Because RPL-U 282 is just that cheap.

I was referencing MTL.

I don’t think RPL is that expensive either. Neither is Zen 4 for that matter. The silicon costs for all of these client CPUs is immaterial. The costs are in the design / validation / equipment.

 

[adroc_thurston]

I was referencing MTL

Horribly expensive versus comparable RPL parts.

The silicon costs for all of these client CPUs is immaterial.

Don't be naive.
BOM creep in client is very real.

 

[Timmah!]

Never said that.

So what did you say again? I did not pay attention and i dont feel like reading 10+ pages in order to find specific post.
Is there more cores coming with Zen 6? At least 24, if not 32? Will they be all the same, if you did not say some of them are dense? Or will there be some kind of hybrid solution, but different to what we may expect?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Is there more cores coming with Zen 6?

Doesn't look like it.

At least 24, if not 32?

Why would you need that many Zen6 cores?

if you did not say some of them are dense

Dense is for poverty segments where every mm^2 of area matters.

 

[CakeMonster]

16c on Z5 and Z6 isn't that bad if we're looking at an accelerated time table. Lots of people just assume 24 months, which is Z5 in Q3 '24 and Z6 in Q3 '26, but if its well before that it doesn't have to mean Intel will blow out AMD in the MT game.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Lots of people just assume 24 months, which is Z5 in Q3 '24 and Z6 in Q3 '26, but if its well before that it doesn't have to mean Intel will blow out AMD in the MT game.

AMD hasn't done 8Q on CPUs for a while and nT is whatever.
Single thread perf is where it at.

 

[Markfw]

Why would you need that many Zen6 cores?

Speaking only for myself and a minority of others, some of us need a LOT of cores, and fast ones, but not as much PCIE lanes and other functionality of TR or EPYC, and we don't want to pay for it. There is a market, not sure the total size.

 

[adroc_thurston]

There is a market, not sure the total size.

Sounds super-tiny.
Once again, AMD focus is on single-thread performance and efficiency in client.

 

[A///]

16c on Z5 and Z6 isn't that bad if we're looking at an accelerated time table. Lots of people just assume 24 months, which is Z5 in Q3 '24 and Z6 in Q3 '26, but if its well before that it doesn't have to mean Intel will blow out AMD in the MT game.

People assume that because of covid. AMD's cadence was much tighter before the dreaded pandemic.

 

[Markfw]

Sounds super-tiny.
Once again, AMD focus is on single-thread performance and efficiency in client.

In addition to the DC crowd, you have those that want to use it like a workstation, but don't want to spend the money on TR. I think you would be surprised at how many really want 24-32 cores.

 

[adroc_thurston]

I think you would be surprised at how many really want 24-32 cores.

That's nice but will hardly work off 2ch memory.
Pointless excercise when you could just focus on 1t and efficiency.

 

[A///]

That's nice but will hardly work off 2ch memory.
Pointless excercise when you could just focus on 1t and efficiency.

yep yep mark paper master mentioned more cores would need more bandwidth something 2 ch ddr5 doesn't bring to the table.

 

[Saylick]

In addition to the DC crowd, you have those that want to use it like a workstation, but don't want to spend the money on TR. I think you would be surprised at how many really want 24-32 cores.

I want 24-32 cores, but only for a server application. If the IPC gains are as rumored, I think I'd be quite satisfied with 16 on a desktop platform. If I needed a lot more, might as well get EPYC.

 

[A///]

I want 24-32 cores, but only for a server application. If the IPC gains are as rumored, I think I'd be quite satisfied with 16 on a desktop platform. If I needed a lot more, might as well get EPYC.

they sell 16 core epycs no?

 

[Markfw]

they sell 16 core epycs no?

They sell 8,16,24,48,64,96 core right now. And I may have missed a couple.

 

[A///]

They sell 8,16,24,48,64,96 core right now. And I may have missed a couple.

112 and 128.

 

[Timmah!]

Doesn't look like it.

Why would you need that many Zen6 cores?

Dense is for poverty segments where every mm^2 of area matters.

Thanks.

i am architect by profession and do lot of archviz as part of my job. Freelancer style, not working in corporate.

Currently doing stuff with Octane render, which is GPU renderer, so i got this year 2x 4090s. But moving to something potentially CPU based is always an option - i could use those cores then.

I dont fancy paying over the top for 24C+ Threadripper and since i like to use the computer for other stuff than rendering (3D modeling, CAD, gaming) that benefit from higher clocks, i would still prefer desktop over workstation. But AMD killed it mostly with pricing. While i may want more cores, i am not prepared to pay 2500 for 24 of them, when 16 costs like 600, and all that while being newer gen and higher clocked.

 

[MadRat]

If your corporate manager has a bunch of CAD guys making $60-80k/year and can leap productivity enough to cut 10%+ of the positions, you just justified the price point. Its all about bang for the buck, not necessarilly cost per unit.

 

[Joe NYC]

If your corporate manager has a bunch of CAD guys making $60-80k/year and can leap productivity enough to cut 10%+ of the positions, you just justified the price point. Its all about bang for the buck, not necessarilly cost per unit.

I think this is too much of a stretch even for a cheesy sales pitch.

No one is sitting around spending 10% of their time looking at a computer hourglass.

 

[soresu]

No one is sitting around spending 10% of their time looking at a computer hourglass.

Certainly not those being paid the higher wages.

That sort of process monitoring is delegated to people further down the ladder like runners in VFX production, and even then as just one of the various tasks in their daily workload.

 

[soresu]

Currently doing stuff with Octane render, which is GPU renderer, so i got this year 2x 4090s. But moving to something potentially CPU based is always an option - i could use those cores then.

Supposedly Renderman XPU uses hybrid compute of CPU and GPU?

Certainly if you have a dual socket server/workstation system and the CPUs are largely idle during GPU rendering that does seem like a serious waste of compute power.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Why would Intel dump HT?

Possible reason if the rumor is true: https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel...able-units-why-hyper-threading-is-going-away/

 

[CakeMonster]

Question for the resident rumor monger; Will there be updated chipsets for Z5? Or will they stick with current chipset until Z6, or not even update for that?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Will there be updated chipsets for Z5?

No.

Or will they stick with current chipset until Z6, or not even update for that?

PROM21 will have a long life yes.