Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[Joe NYC]

The benefits seem to be rare enough to not be worth it as it looks like AMD stopped putting 3D cache on Epyc with Zen 5.

You will be surprised to see the Phoronix results from various workstation / server benchmarks. 9800x3d has a big lead on 9700x, IIRC 11%. 9950x3d has a lead on 9950x.

Both of these leads are going to grow, if these 2 processors are released.

 

[Thunder 57]

You will be surprised to see the Phoronix results from various workstation / server benchmarks. 9800x3d has a big lead on 9700x, IIRC 11%. 9950x3d has a lead on 9950x.

Both of these leads are going to grow, if these 2 processors are released.

It's very application specific. Most of the time the difference is quite small. It will be exciting to see it released and benchmarked, but I wouldn't expect much more from it.

 

[Josh128]

All this may be BS. Its not the first time we'd be fooled if so. I will say though, a stock 5.6GHz 9850X3D that could likely be pushed to a reliable 5.7GHz with a few minor tweaks sounds potent as hell for gaming.

 

[fastandfurious6]

9950X3D is already fast as hell, TBH it's true double vcache is overkill.. both in numbers and in 'feel'

 

[Joe NYC]

It's very application specific. Most of the time the difference is quite small. It will be exciting to see it released and benchmarked, but I wouldn't expect much more from it.

A good comparison from that table is:
9800x3d: 152.43
9700x: 137.74

Performance advantage is 10.7% after overcoming clock speed deficit.

9950x3d: 195.18
9950x: 190.47

Performance advantage here is 2.5% after overcoming clock speed and lack of V-Cache on one CCD.

The big change from previous analyses is that the assumption was always a big clock speed difference, and these leaked parts would have a V-Cache CCDs at virtually the same clock speed. (In case of 9850x3d, at higher clock speed than 9700x.)

 

[Thunder 57]

A good comparison from that table is:
9800x3d: 152.43
9700x: 137.74

Performance advantage is 10.7% after overcoming clock speed deficit.

9950x3d: 195.18
9950x: 190.47

Performance advantage here is 2.5% after overcoming clock speed and lack of V-Cache on one CCD.

The big change from previous analyses is that the assumption was always a big clock speed difference, and these leaked parts would have a V-Cache CCDs at virtually the same clock speed. (In case of 9850x3d, at higher clock speed than 9700x.)

Doesn't the 3D cache chiplet on the 9950X3D already hit/get close to 5.5GHz? 9850X3D will benefit nicely I'll give you that.

 

[StefanR5R]

The benefits seem to be rare enough to not be worth it as it looks like AMD stopped putting 3D cache on Epyc with Zen 5.

I believe it is more about that their top customer in this niche, Azure, decided that HBM would provide these benefits more consistently across different dataset sizes (and preferred MI300C over a direct Genoa-X successor).

 

[Joe NYC]

Doesn't the 3D cache chiplet on the 9950X3D already hit/get close to 5.5GHz? 9850X3D will benefit nicely I'll give you that.

I have not seen the official figure for the clock speed (boost) for the V-Cache CCD on 9950x3d. And how those clocks can be sustained.

I am very curious what turns out from the testing, if these chips are released.

And if they are released, if we also see them in mini-EPYC AM5 CPUs. I noticed SuperMicro is releaseing a 6U MicroBlade server with 20x Micro Blades using EPYC AM5 4005 CPUs:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1981465780114935985

 

[RnR_au]

Wow... 395 AI + 128GB of ram in a handheld

https://www.notebookcheck.net/OneXP...trix-Halo-and-up-to-128-GB-RAM.1147901.0.html

Edit: live in a few hours ...

 

[DrMrLordX]

Why would they put the 128GB board in a handheld?

 

[poke01]

Why would they put the 128GB board in a handheld?

Marketing

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Why would they put the 128GB board in a handheld?

Right from yesterday video's description:

· Run AAA games & 70B LLMs locally with ease

With the amount of money spent on the 395 version, I think it's reasonable to say this is a mighty capable PC that docks and connects to a TV/monitor + KBM, but at any point in time we can just pick it up and play on the go.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

ONEXFLY Apex, Powerhouse Handheld Launches Today - SDHQ

OneXPlayer fully unveils the OneXFly Apex handheld, boasting an AMD AI Max+ 395 chipset with optional liquid cooling for blistering performance.

steamdeckhq.com

Summary
- 85W.h battery is detachable and replaceable like the one in Win5.
- Maximum cTDP for the handheld is 80W.
- An optional external watercooling dock elevates cTDP towards 120W (only useful for productivity, gaming performance gains are negligible above 80W).
- 2280 M.2 PCIe 4.0 x4 + BiWin Mini SSD PCIe 4.0 x2 + SD Card
- 8" 1920*1200 120Hz VRR native landscape (sounds like the same panel as the Lenovo Legion Go S)
- One button shortcut to switch between the Xbox Ally X front-end and the regular
- Seems to bring a 3rd party app to run local LLMs for productivity (?).



Prices as follows:

• OneXFly Apex (MAX 385 32G+1TB) = 8599 RMB ($1209 US)
• OneXFly Apex (MAX 395 48G+1TB) = 9999 RMB ($1406 US)
• OneXFly Apex (MAX 395 64G+2TB) = 11999 RMB ($1687 US)
• OneXFly Apex (MAX 395 128G+2TB) = 15999 RMB ($2250 US)
• Battery Pack: 399 RMB ($56 US)
• External Liquid-Cooling Case: 999 RMB ($140 US)
• Protective Case: 199 RMB ($27.99 US)
• Travel Battery Base: 169 RMB ($23.77 US)

 

[Tuna-Fish]

- Maximum cTDP for the handheld is 80W.

That's so absurd.

I love it.

 

[DrMrLordX]

With the amount of money spent on the 395 version, I think it's reasonable to say this is a mighty capable PC that docks and connects to a TV/monitor + KBM, but at any point in time we can just pick it up and play on the go.

If the maximum cTDP is 80W, it's going to underperform while docked, at least by a little bit. Though I guess if that's not a problem then it makes an interesting product for people with a lot of money to burn.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

If the maximum cTDP is 80W, it's going to underperform while docked, at least by a little bit. Though I guess if that's not a problem then it makes an interesting product for people with a lot of money to burn.

That's what they sell the watercooling dock for, to let the SoC reach 120W.

 

[DrMrLordX]

That's what they sell the watercooling dock for, to let the SoC reach 120W.

Lol I hope you're joking, but part of me thinks you aren't (there are some phones with fan docks, my RoG Phone 2 shipped with one).

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Lol I hope you're joking, but part of me thinks you aren't (there are some phones with fan docks, my RoG Phone 2 shipped with one).

It's basically a 120mm AiO cooler.

Connecting it to the watercooling dock also brings fans down, making it nearly inaudible according to them.

It's actually a neat feature, especially for people using the 128GB version for productivity.

 

[fastandfurious6]

THE FUTURE!

1. compute + basic I/O as small as possible for portable AIO device

2. all desktop/docking type heavier parts outsourced including better cooling


this will prevail over any "egpu" solution

 

[LightningZ71]

Eh, not really? There are still limits on what you can put in the mobile portion and have it make any sense. Having the dock with a PCIe slot for an arbitrary three slot GPU allows for driving 4K displays like big screen TVs while keeping the device portable and at least somewhat affordable.

 

[DrMrLordX]

It's basically a 120mm AiO cooler.

Connecting it to the watercooling dock also brings fans down, making it nearly inaudible according to them.

It's actually a neat feature, especially for people using the 128GB version for productivity.

Huh, how much extra does that thing cost? Is it included with the base unit?

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Eh, not really? There are still limits on what you can put in the mobile portion and have it make any sense.

We know Strix Halo can do 12W just fine. Medusa Halo should be able to do the same.

Having the dock with a PCIe slot for an arbitrary three slot GPU allows for driving 4K displays like big screen TVs while keeping the device portable and at least somewhat affordable.

eGPU docks and midrange GPUs are so expensive nowadays that this $1400 version actually offers better value than say a Xbox ROG Ally X ($1000) + a USB4 eGPU dock ($300) + a midrange dGPU ($250-350).

With the advantage that the 48GB version is never going to run out of VRAM and it's much more portable than the handheld + eGPU set.
And if you want to drive 4K displays, all you need is a USB-C dock with HDMI 2.1 output that costs $60.

 

[StefanR5R]

It's basically a 120mm AiO cooler.

Connecting it to the watercooling dock also brings fans down, making it nearly inaudible according to them.

How is the thermal transfer from handheld to dock implemented? I tried to find out from the launch event video, but was unable to.

Huh, how much extra does that thing cost?

External Liquid-Cooling Case: 999 RMB ($140 US)

 

[ToTTenTranz]

How is the thermal transfer from handheld to dock implemented? I tried to find out from the launch event video, but was unable to.

They didn't say, and I'm honestly really curious about it as well.

If the dock connector has a watercooled copper ending plate that makes direct contact with the handheld's copper heatsink, it could work but it's not very effective because there can't be any thermal paste between the copper plates.
If the dock is actually sending cool water into the handheld and receiving hot water from it, then they need to be using some seriously complex tube connectors and fastenings.

 

[DrMrLordX]

All it has to do is cover another ~40W of heat transfer. If it has a metal backplate (aluminum), perhaps that can be accomplished by just using the dock to hold the backplate as close to ambient as possible.