Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[igor_kavinski]

https://videocardz.com/newz/g-skill-announces-availability-of-128-256gb-high-capacity-ddr5-memory-kits-for-intel-and-amd-platforms

256GB EXPO for AMD while Intel is still stuck at 128GB. Sad that Intel hasn't had much luck with getting four DIMMs stable.

 

[RTX]

Are these prices good?

 

[fastandfurious6]

Are these prices good

I did the maths for the japanese market, yes the discounted 99800 (~$600) is perfect for office/browsing but can't really play games

ryzen 340 6core is similar to 8840hs phoenix cpu performance but worse gpu cut in half

don't know the specs of the other laptops shown

the alternative brackets:

around $1000: 8core cpu (rebranded 8840hs) + rtx5060 gpu in mediocre chassis lenovo LOQ

Lenovo LOQ 15AHP10 Ryzen 7 250ERTX 5060E16GBƒƒ‚ƒŠ[E512GB SSDE15.6Œ^ƒtƒ‹HDEIPS‰t»“‹Ú 83JG002QJP [ƒ‹ƒiƒOƒŒ[] ‰¿Ši”äŠr

¡ÅˆÀ‰¿Ši(Åž)F158,268‰~@¡‰¿Ši.com”„‚ê‹Øƒ‰ƒ“ƒLƒ“ƒOF88ˆÊ@¡–ž‘«“xƒŒƒrƒ…[F0l@¡ƒNƒ`ƒRƒ~F0Œ i¦12ŒŽ14“úŽž“_j

kakaku.com

around $2000 (300,000 yen): full desktop replacement high end intel 275hx 24core + 5070ti + perfect chassis asus strix 16''

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/resco/4711636016407/

 

[igor_kavinski]

i a littel confused

Only a little? Why not more?

 

[poke01]

Only a little? Why not more?

The bots are gaining sentience

 

[LightningZ71]

I don't put it past AI bot agents to start joining forums and pumping members for information some day really soon...

 

[Tigerick]

Model		Ryzen 3 7440U, Ryzen 3 210	Ryzen AI 5 330	Ryzen AI 3 ?		Intel Wildcat Lake	Dimensity 9400 5G	A18 Pro
Codename		Phoenix 2, Hawk Point	Krackan Point 2	MDS3 Bumblebee		Wildcat Lake
Node		N4	N4P	N3C		18A + ?	N3E	N3E
Die Size		137 mm2	?	?			150 mm2	109.72 mm2
CPU		1 x Zen 4 4.7GHz	1 x Zen 5 4.5GHz	2 x Zen 6		2 x	1 x X925 3.62GHz	2 x 4.04GHz
		3 x Zen 4c 3.3GHz	3 x Zen 5c 3.4GHz	2 x Zen 6c		-	3 x X4 3.3GHz	4 x 2.42GHz
		-	-	2 x Zen 6 LP		4 x LPe	4 x A720 2.4GHz	-
Cores		4	4	6		6	8	6
Threads		8	8	10		6	8	6
L3 Cache		8 MB	8 MB				12 MB	24 MB
TDP		28 W	28 W	28 W			Fanless	Fanless
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5x-8000	128-bit LPDDR5x-8000	128-bit LPDDR5x-8000 ?		64-bit LPDDR5x-6800	64-bit LPDDR5x-10667	64-bit LPDDR5x-7500
GPU		Radeon 740M	Radeon 820M	RDNA 4.5		Xe3	G925	G17P
Cores		4 CU @ 2500MHz	2 CU @ 2800MHz	2 CU @ ?		2	MC12 @ 1612MHz	6 @ 1470MHz
NPU		NA	50 TOPS	80 TOPS		18		35

AMD has announced new KRK2 die with model name as R5-330. The reduction of CU most likely due to NPU inclusion. Love it or not, NPU AI are here to stay. Just for fun, I have added upcoming Intel Wildcat Lake, Dimensity 9400 and A18 Pro for comparison...

 

[gdansk]

AMD can still save Strix Halo by getting it into fantastic handhelds that people are more than willing to buy, though. Decent profit-per-unit with big volume sales is a lot better than enormous profit-per-unit with nearly zero sales.

That's for this thread. But it won't be saving it at all. That would be "salvaging". There's no point to put Strix Halo in handhelds, if it ends up there then indeed it was an unequivocal failure. Whatever the goal of Halo was, it certainly wasn't to end up in a category where 32GB is seen as more-than-enough and $1000 is seen as expensive.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

That's for this thread. But it won't be saving it at all. That would be "salvaging". There's no point to put Strix Halo in handhelds, if it ends up there then indeed it was an unequivocal failure. Whatever the goal of Halo was, it certainly wasn't to end up in a category where 32GB is seen as more-than-enough and $1000 is seen as expensive.

There are salvaging success stories. Just look at Tegra X1.


AMD could sell single-CCD STX Halo to Microsoft or Sony as their current-gen permium handheld, or to Valve for the Steam Deck Ultra.

 

[RTX]

https://jp.ext.hp.com/campaign/personal/others/26th_anniversary_2/hololive_mariluna/
Some HP laptops ~30-40% off

 

[gdansk]

There are salvaging success stories. Just look at Tegra X1.

The 'salvage' of Tegra X1 was to cut the target device price in half and sell 150 million units.
Putting Strix Halo into handhelds will be to divide the target device price by 4 and sell < 1 million units. There is no success if this salvage effort appears.

 

[inquiss]

That's for this thread. But it won't be saving it at all. That would be "salvaging". There's no point to put Strix Halo in handhelds, if it ends up there then indeed it was an unequivocal failure. Whatever the goal of Halo was, it certainly wasn't to end up in a category where 32GB is seen as more-than-enough and $1000 is seen as expensive.

It was to be a pipe cleaner for Medusa halo

 

[gdansk]

It was to be a pipe cleaner for Medusa halo

Perhaps best to call it a pipe stopper? We'll see.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Putting Strix Halo into handhelds will be to divide the target device price by 4

Source: your imagination.

and sell < 1 million units.

There are over 4 million Steam Deck sold, of which the majority is the most expensive option by far.
Price isn't that much of an issue. PC gamers or even gamers in general are getting more time-poor and money-rich. We're not in 1997 anymore.

 

[gdansk]

Source: your imagination.
There are over 4 million Steam Deck sold

What are Strix Halo devices selling for right now?
And what is the Steam Deck price?

Your desire to see Strix Halo pushed into a role for which it is least apt is commendable. But it's a last resort for AMD. If they have spare parts they get more money selling high memory configurations to home ML people. As a gaming machine Strix Halo is simply bad value. Huge, modern process IOd with a graphics arch that has poor ppw.

 

[poke01]

You think 4 million in 3 years is impressive for a $400 computer. It’s not. The Wii U sold more than that.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

What are Strix Halo devices selling for right now?

Minimum $1000.

And what is the Steam Deck price?

AYANEO sells gaming handhelds way up to $1500.
GPD goes all the way up to ~$2000.

Your desire to see Strix Halo pushed into a role for which it is least apt is commendable.

Not just mine. It's the desire for many people. Definitely more than the ones buying giant tablets with a fugly gAmEr design, yet Asus made one of those with Strix Halo.

But it's a last resort for AMD.

God forbid AMD would recoup the R&D costs and make some money on top by getting people things they want to buy.

If they have spare parts they get more money selling high memory configurations to home ML people.

They didn't.

As a gaming machine Strix Halo is simply bad value.

Not for you to say.

Huge, modern process IOd with a graphics arch that has poor ppw.

And this is just plain wrong. STX Halo beats everything at 15W and up.

You think 4 million in 3 years is impressive for a $400 computer. It’s not. The Wii U sold more than that.

This isn't home console economics.

 

[gdansk]

Yeah ship a 9950X + N48 worth of silicon for your handheld to use at only 15 watts. What price? and how many units do you think?

I'm sure they'll get right on prioritizing those customized CCDs over GR and the IOd over N48...

 

[gdansk]

Definitely more than the ones buying giant tablets with a fugly gAmEr design, yet Asus made one of those with Strix Halo.

The existence of one massive flop doesn't not argue for the creation of another.

 

[Sgraffite]

What are Strix Halo devices selling for right now?

Barebones this is currently $589, for what it is worth.

ACEMAGIC F3A Mini PC – Ryzen AI 9 HX 370, Radeon 890M, 8K

ACEMAGIC F3A Mini PC with Ryzen™ AI 9 HX 370, Radeon™ 890M, up to 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD, USB4, dual 2.5G LAN, 8K output, and a barebone option available!

acemagic.com

 

[gdansk]

Barebones this is currently $589, for what it is worth.

ACEMAGIC F3A Mini PC – Ryzen AI 9 HX 370, Radeon 890M, 8K

ACEMAGIC F3A Mini PC with Ryzen™ AI 9 HX 370, Radeon™ 890M, up to 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD, USB4, dual 2.5G LAN, 8K output, and a barebone option available!

acemagic.com

That's Strix Point.

 

[Sgraffite]

That's Strix Point.

Oops, you are correct.

 

[Vikv1918]

Yeah ship a 9950X + N48 worth of silicon for your handheld to use at only 15 watts. What price? and how many units do you think?

I'm sure they'll get right on prioritizing those customized CCDs over GR and the IOd over N48...

Its 9700X since a handheld would only need 8 cores. $1000 Strix Halo-class handhelds would be profitable and sell millions. The next upgrade to it would be Medusa Halo. This needs to be a thing. Multiple markets can exist. AMD can continue to sell Halo class as laptops and mini-PCs with large amounts of RAM as well.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Yeah ship a 9950X + N48 worth of silicon for your handheld to use at only 15 watts.

This is just plain wrong.
The full Granite Ridge and N48 have a combined die area of 620mm^2. A Strix Halo with single CCD would be 370mm2.

This isn't even counting with the fact that you need to pair the N48 with 256bit GDDR6 and then the Granite Ridge with 128bit DDR5 / LPDDR5.

What price?

The same as many other gaming handheld PCs being sold right now.

and how many units do you think?

A whole lot more than the irrelevant volume they're selling from a laptop, a fugly tablet and a bunch of miniPCs.

I'm sure they'll get right on prioritizing those customized CCDs over GR and the IOd over N48...

If it's a single CCD they can probably just use Granite Ridge chips. The biggest difference in the Halo CCDs is the inter-CCD interconnect.

The existence of one massive flop doesn't not argue for the creation of another.

Actually selling for a profit an already developed chip in volume production would mean a massive flop because... it would be in a product you're personally not interested in?

 

[DrMrLordX]

btw for those wondering:

Strix Halo laptops selling on the secondary market are almost all $2300+, with many being above $3000. In the US at least. And that's just 32GB configurations. The miniPCs are around $1400-$1600 for 64GB models and $1900+ for 128GB models. That's not counting the weaker 380 which can be had from Framework for a bit less. But really who wants the 380?