Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[lightmanek]

Come again?

It seems my 9950X is not performing well. I have to buy 9800X3D to have better performance in rendering, video editing, database engines and CFD computations.
🫣

 

[Thunder 57]

We all know v-cache works and without it, Zen 5 CPU's do not perform well. The easy solution is to make v-cache standard and add more v-cache to the x3D chips.

Have you lost your mind? Or are you just trolling?

 

[Thibsie]

Have you lost your mind? Or are you just trolling?

He's just who is always is, ya know....

 

[Tup3x]

I use open-back headphones as well, but my desktop has adequate cooling is is near silent under load.

You can actually build a silent desktop, even with hot/power hungry Intel parts.

As a bonus, if you don’t need a huge GPU, you can get the weight down under 2.5kg.

You will pay for all of that, of course.

A youtuber did a 9950X build with no fans at all, not even in the PSU, even running at stock settings (170/230W).

I meant that the noise is a problem when using laptop since my desktop is so quiet under full load that it doesn't even matter that I use open-back headphones. My laptop is really noisy when doing almost nothing. Just a single gif in a Slack message makes the fan go crazy.

So, I have hard time believing that there's any reasonable sized desktop replacement laptops that doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner.

 

[Schmide]

We all know v-cache works and without it, Zen 5 CPU's do not perform well. The easy solution is to make v-cache standard and add more v-cache to the x3D chips.

Enough with the loaded either or fallacy and hyperbole.

 

[poke01]

Last time I checked they perform well in web benchmarks.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Have you lost your mind? Or are you just trolling?

Just the facts.

AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D CPU Accounts for Almost 90% of "Zen 5" Sales, Rest of 9000 Series in Trouble

Based on the MindFactory sales data for January 2025, we have seen AMD push a significant share of sales and revenue at the German PC hardware store. However, an interesting observation lies in the details. AMD's Ryzen 7 9800X3D CPU was the best-selling SKU at 8,390 units sold. An entire AM5...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[fastandfurious6]

My laptop is really noisy when doing almost nothing. Just a single gif in a Slack message makes the fan go crazy.

So, I have hard time believing that there's any reasonable sized desktop replacement laptops that doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner.

"my laptop is loud and hot, so all laptops are loud and hot" 😔

 

[Abwx]

Just the facts.

AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D CPU Accounts for Almost 90% of "Zen 5" Sales, Rest of 9000 Series in Trouble

Based on the MindFactory sales data for January 2025, we have seen AMD push a significant share of sales and revenue at the German PC hardware store. However, an interesting observation lies in the details. AMD's Ryzen 7 9800X3D CPU was the best-selling SKU at 8,390 units sold. An entire AM5...

www.techpowerup.com

9800X3D being 90% of AMD sales in Germany, a "fact" for whom has deserted classrooms at a very early age as to not even master the 4 basic arithmetic ops.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1886441247197590001

 

[Markfw]

We all know v-cache works and without it, Zen 5 CPU's do not perform well. The easy solution is to make v-cache standard and add more v-cache to the x3D chips.

Well, I for one would like to see where you get the "Zen 5 CPU's do not perform well." comment from. Did you pull that out of thin air ?

 

[Markfw]

Just the facts.

AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D CPU Accounts for Almost 90% of "Zen 5" Sales, Rest of 9000 Series in Trouble

Based on the MindFactory sales data for January 2025, we have seen AMD push a significant share of sales and revenue at the German PC hardware store. However, an interesting observation lies in the details. AMD's Ryzen 7 9800X3D CPU was the best-selling SKU at 8,390 units sold. An entire AM5...

www.techpowerup.com

Thats 46%( for 9800x3d), not 90% and there is no place in that article that says anything even close to saying the 9950x performs worse than the 9800x3d.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Well, I for one would like to see where you get the "Zen 5 CPU's do not perform well." comment from. Did you pull that out of thin air ?

Standard Zen 5 CPU's (non X3D variants). Those are slightly more efficient than Zen 4 and 3-5% better performance. I thought we already had this discussion. Zen 5 was designed for servers. With the addition of 3D v-cache, the performance is significantly better than Zen 4 CPU's. 7800x3D owners are still looking good. AMD cannot produce enough 9800x3D CPU's. That is the only chip worth buying today. That may change when the 9900x3D and 9950x3D chips are released in March.

Did you not see the original youtube reviews? Even after two months of updates, nothing changed for Zen 5. It was not until November when the 9800x3D was released. AMD was never close to hitting their performance targets of 16% better performance for Zen 5 vs. Zen 4. The 9800x3D allows for OCing and the core clock regression disappeared for the most part vs. not X3D parts.

Thats 46%( for 9800x3d), not 90% and there is no place in that article that says anything even close to saying the 9950x performs worse than the 9800x3d.

I didn't write the article. Those numbers are for the German Mindfactory sales numbers.

 

[Markfw]

Standard Zen 5 CPU's (non X3D variants). Those are slightly more efficient than Zen 4 and 3-5% better performance. I thought we already had this discussion. Zen 5 was designed for servers. With the addition of 3D v-cache, the performance is significantly better than Zen 4 CPU's. 7800x3D owners are still looking good. AMD cannot produce enough 9800x3D CPU's. That is the only chip worth buying today. That may change when the 9900x3D and 9950x3D chips are released in March.

Did you not see the original youtube reviews? Even after two months of updates, nothing changed for Zen 5. It was not until November when the 9800x3D was released. AMD was never close to hitting their performance targets of 16% better performance for Zen 5 vs. Zen 4. The 9800x3D allows for OCing and the core clock regression disappeared for the most part vs. not X3D parts.

I didn't write the article. Those numbers are for the German Mindfactory sales numbers.

Somehow you are not understanding what I have written. And the above post applies to gaming only. In non-gaming heavy multi-core use applications and those that use avx-512 heavily especially, the 9950x is FAR better than the 9800x3d. The other posters since your original post containing "We all know v-cache works and without it, Zen 5 CPU's do not perform well." agree with me.

 

[igor_kavinski]

He should see the application tests here: https://www.hwcooling.net/en/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d-top-gaming-cpu-with-mt-perf-boost-review/

When the 9950X is properly used by an application, it is anywhere from 9 to 20% faster than 7950X. That's not 3 to 5% performance increase. He is probably referring to the average application performance of 9950X in the TPU review where it's around 5% faster.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Somehow you are not understanding what I have written. And the above post applies to gaming only. In non-gaming heavy multi-core use applications and those that use avx-512 heavily especially, the 9950x is FAR better than the 9800x3d. The other posters since your original post containing "We all know v-cache works and without it, Zen 5 CPU's do not perform well." agree with me.

I never compared a 9800x3D to a 9950x. A 9950x vs. 7950x shows a 3-5% improvement for Zen 5 over Zen 4 with better power efficiency. The reviews have said the only Zen 5 CPU worth buying is the 9800x3D at this time. Before the 9800x3D was released, tech sites said to wait for Zen 6 and skip Zen 5.

Zen 5 was designed as a server chip first. When AMD adds 3D v-cache, the missing performance in Zen 5 desktop processors appears in benchmarks. When AMD releases the 9950x3D and 9900x3D chips in March. Will those v-cache CPU's find the missing performance that AMD claimed for Zen 5. 15-16% (Zen 5) improvement in performance.

I know you have a Turin server. The Zen 5 Turin server chips smoke everything. There is no issue with Zen 5 server chip performance.

I suggested AMD should simply make all Zen 6 CPU's v-cache CPU's. They could double the current v-cache in the x3D parts for Zen 6 X3D parts. There are a lot of forum members who would like to see v-cache on both CCD's.

 

[Hans Gruber]

He should see the application tests here: https://www.hwcooling.net/en/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d-top-gaming-cpu-with-mt-perf-boost-review/

When the 9950X is properly used by an application, it is anywhere from 9 to 20% faster than 7950X. That's not 3 to 5% performance increase. He is probably referring to the average application performance of 9950X in the TPU review where it's around 5% faster.

That's is exactly what I am referring to. I also said that the X3D variants of the 9950 and 9900 may provide a much bigger improvement in performance vs. the 7950x and 7950x3D CPU's. The 3D v-cache appears to be more important on Zen 5 than it was with Zen 4.

 

[Thunder 57]

There are a lot of forum members who would like to see v-cache on both CCD's.

Nothing of what you have said defends your statement that without Vcache Zen 5 doesn't perform well. The IPC gains are more inconsistent this time but that doesn't mean it is bad. I'm convinced you stated a falsehood just to get people to react. It's working, mission accomplished.

Forum members wrongly believe dual VCache will improve performance in games even more. It would still be 96MB per CCD communicating through a slow outdated IOD. It's not like AMD has fingers in their ears. The first 3DCache product demonstrated was a 5900X3D. They know how these dual cache chips perform. They know there is no point in making them for Joe Consumer.

 

[Schmide]

I never compared a 9800x3D to a 9950x. A 9950x vs. 7950x shows a 3-5% improvement for Zen 5 over Zen 4 with better power efficiency. The reviews have said the only Zen 5 CPU worth buying is the 9800x3D at this time. Before the 9800x3D was released, tech sites said to wait for Zen 6 and skip Zen 5.

Zen 5 was designed as a server chip first. When AMD adds 3D v-cache, the missing performance in Zen 5 desktop processors appears in benchmarks. When AMD releases the 9950x3D and 9900x3D chips in March. Will those v-cache CPU's find the missing performance that AMD claimed for Zen 5. 15-16% (Zen 5) improvement in performance.

I know you have a Turin server. The Zen 5 Turin server chips smoke everything. There is no issue with Zen 5 server chip performance.

I suggested AMD should simply make all Zen 6 CPU's v-cache CPU's. They could double the current v-cache in the x3D parts for Zen 6 X3D parts. There are a lot of forum members who would like to see v-cache on both CCD's.

You did nothing of the sort. (the above is a strawman) You used loaded language to infer that non 3d cache processors did not preform well. As well you dis-valued all other segments of the stack by stating that amd should only produce 3d cache variants. I see no reason to use such language other than to get a rise out of the forum.

A producer produces products at many levels. They compete with others as well as themselves. No one level is good for everyone. Currently 3d cache versions have a premium over their non cache relatives. Their value per frame is often less than their cost. The value on non gaming workloads is even worse.

 

[leoneazzurro]

Power brick weight/size is out of control, especially since USB-C PD can power most or all of these devices.

My alienware laptop is thin and light, despite having a laptop 3070 (which performs similarly to a desktop 3060). Sounds great until you see the power brick. Weighs almost as much as the laptop. If USB-PD on that machine supported 100-230W it wouldn’t need one, instead it is limited to something like 60W and requires the power brick when completely dead or the GPU is used.

Well a power supply for a desktop replacement gaming laptop is (I have one) from around half Kg to a Kg for 280/330W type, the most modern ones can go on the lower side. GaN is rising even there. Same power adapter was around one Kg just a few years ago. USB-C is OK up to 100W, there are ways to push it to 240W and that involves pushing the voltage to 50V and special cables but definitely for the highest performing notebooks it is not enough, as they need even more than that. And a 240 W USB-C PD supply will not be light.

 

[DrMrLordX]

We all know v-cache works and without it, Zen 5 CPU's do not perform well. The easy solution is to make v-cache standard and add more v-cache to the x3D chips.

Next you're going to tell us that Zen5 launch was a disaster? Meanwhile AMD is dominating in the server room, thanks in no small part to the momentum Turin is building on Genoa's success. Plus the day-1 availability of Turin dense has helped them considerably (compared to the wait for Bergamo in the previous gen). Also notice that AMD may not even release Turin-X!

Zen5 is performing well where necessary. With or without 3dcache.

 

[naukkis]

9800X3D being 90% of AMD sales in Germany, a "fact" for whom has deserted classrooms at a very early age as to not even master the 4 basic arithmetic ops.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1886441247197590001

It does not claim that. It claims that 90% of AMD Zen5 sales are 9800X3d, which is pretty accurate. 8400 x3d's sold and next best selling Zen5 cpu seems to be 9700x with 640 sold.

 

[Markfw]

It does not claim that. It claims that 90% of AMD Zen5 sales are 9800X3d, which is pretty accurate. 8400 x3d's sold and next best selling Zen5 cpu seems to be 9700x with 640 sold.

Further clarification
Zen 5 sales = total units sold ??
Zen 5 server (Socket SP5 and SP6) = ??
Zen 5 laptop = ??
Zen 5 desktop = 18,410

%Zen 5 desktop of all desktop (Zen4 + Zen5 ??) 78%

I don't see that. Real numbers:
Total units sold : 23,615 (desktop??)
total socket AM5: 18,410
total socket AM4: 5,205
9800x3d: 8390

percent 9800x3d of AM5 = 45.57306 or (rounded) 46%

Where am I wrong ???

 

[naukkis]

Further clarification
Zen 5 sales = total units sold ??
Zen 5 server (Socket SP5 and SP6) = ??
Zen 5 laptop = ??
Zen 5 desktop = 18,410

%Zen 5 desktop of all desktop (Zen4 + Zen5 ??) 78%

I don't see that. Real numbers:
Total units sold : 23,615 (desktop??)
total socket AM5: 18,410
total socket AM4: 5,205
9800x3d: 8390

percent 9800x3d of AM5 = 45.57306 or (rounded) 46%

Where am I wrong ???

View attachment 116625

Zen4 is also AM5. Only Ryzen 9000-series cpus are Zen5.

 

[Markfw]

Zen4 is also AM5. Only Ryzen 9000-series cpus are Zen5.

which AM4 are Zen 5 ? or check AM5 are Zen 4 ??? confusing.

 

[naukkis]

which AM4 are Zen 5 ? or check AM5 are Zen 4 ??? confusing.

AM5 cpus include both 7000-series Zen4 and 9000-series Zen5. AM4 cpus are up to Zen3 or 5000-series.