Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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Ghostsonplanets

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The most important aspect for Zen 5 Laptop will be availability of choices and designs at all price points possible. Intel has stealthily admitted that MTL is a low volume product and their future designs are made with premium devices in mind due to higher costs of manufacturing. And if we go by MLID "statements", OEMs also aren't very keen on MTL.

2025 is the key year. Intel will be relying on RPL 282 and MTL 115U for mainstream designs. Both QCOM and AMD will have a chance here. If AMD follows their current cadence of designs using their latest SoCs only appearing later in the year, they will waste a huge opportunity. TTM and execution is key.

But if they're able to have multiple designs, from premium with STX to mainstream with KRK 1/2 and HWK, starting from Q1 25, they'll finally be able to have a foothold into laptop space.

@adroc_thurston Will Strix family (Excluding Halo) real availability start this year or only next year? I know it's launching this year.


Elaborate a bit... :)
Turing Dense packs 192 Zen 5C cores into a 500W package. So, if discount efficiency losses through uncore and data movement, each Z5C core should be using around 1.5 - 2W per core.
 

adroc_thurston

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from premium with STX to mainstream with KRK 1/2 and HWK, starting from Q1 25, they'll finally be able to have a foothold into laptop space.
HWK doesn't exist next year.
Will Strix family (Excluding Halo) real availability start this year or only next year?
Stx1 is this year, rest CES'25.
they'll finally be able to have a foothold into laptop space.
They already own 1/5th or therein.
What?
If AMD follows their current cadence of designs using their latest SoCs only appearing later in the year
There is no cadence, it all depends on how channel behaves and PC TAM for the year.
Ahh read the reports.
 

Ghostsonplanets

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HWK doesn't exist next year.
So KRK fully replaces it, got it. KRK should be a smaller die than HWK, so it's cheaper for AMD to sell it at lower price points for OEMs.
Stx1 is this year, rest CES'25.
Premium AI PCs design this year then. That's good. KRK at CES 25 is decent, but only if availability is high and fast.
They already own 1/5th or therein.
What?
They can capture more of the market, specially with a weaker Intel. But that's not even what I'm talking about. I'm talking about mindshare, which Intel has a huge advantage and bias towards them from consumers. AMD needs to execute from top to bottom to gain this mindshare and stablish their designs as as good as Intel or even better in the consumer mind.

Being widely available and marketed in mainstream and premium designs is a good step for it.
There is no cadence, it all depends on how channel behaves and PC TAM for the year.
Channel should be pretty clear next year due to MTL being a low volume part (Same should be true for ARL too). And TAM will be good due to OEMs and MS huge push and marketing towards AI PC, coupled with W10 end of support. So there's huge expectations for people replacing their old laptops.

If AMD was able to slot themselves in a lot of designs for next year, it should be a good one for them.
 
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Jan Olšan

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Jan 12, 2017
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Well, 8300G with disabled iGPU doesn't help much since you save some, but lose big on having to buy (surprisingly pricy for what it is) trash like GT 1030.
 

DAPUNISHER

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Well, 8300G with disabled iGPU doesn't help much since you save some, but lose big on having to buy (surprisingly pricy for what it is) trash like GT 1030.
Doesn't have to be the IGP that's disabled. Athlon 3000G was 2c/4t with Vega 3. AM5 Zen 4&5 could possibly see some ultra budget cutdown APUs before it's over. Probably for OEM only, and you'd have to grab a tray model off of AliExpress.

As to Zen 6 being a different platform: No way is AMD abandoning AM5 after only 2 generations, no way in hell. The fallout would be nuclear levels.

And keeping on topic: Could someone provide the Dolphin benchmark time for the 7950X/3D? I can't find it. As is, I am guessing Zen 5 should be well under 2 minutes.
 
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dr1337

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Its amazing to me how we're still watching DDR5 roll out to the masses and people are acting like DDR6 is right around the corner, I bet AM6 doesn't happen until at least 2028.


Why are people talking about D6 in the Zen 5 thread anyways? 0% chance AMD implements any form of DDR6 until next arch generation as is.
 
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If it's still plain-old DDR5
They can go up to DDR5-10000 which has been reached under overclocking conditions already. May need newer mobos with better traces for that, especially for the budget ones but I don't think people would mind buying A720M or B750 mobos if those can work up to DDR5-10000 stock settings of at least CL40.
 
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Yeah, I would prefer these RAM/mobo companies do their R&D with their own bucks instead of launching half baked DDR6 with bad early release latencies just like how things started with DDR5.
 

gdansk

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Why are people talking about D6 in the Zen 5 thread anyways? 0% chance AMD implements any form of DDR6 until next arch generation as is.
It's all fallout from Strix Halo questions and that apparently AMD is not decided if Zen 6 is on AM5. Why skip AM5 if it's DDR5?
 

DAPUNISHER

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People will be understanding if it uses a different memory type. If it's still plain-old DDR5 then it would be disliked.
LOL! No they won't. Both vendors have managed to make new CPUs compatible with more than one generation of DDR over the years. Including Inel's latest platform. That reasoning isn't going to cut it. AM4 set expectations, which during interviews concerning AM5 longevity AMD assured it would have a long life. They will get incinerated if they don't support at least 3 gens on AM5. Mark my words.

And seriously? You think people will dislike getting to use ram they already bought? A lot of current lga 1700 builders disagree.
Why are people talking about D6 in the Zen 5 thread anyways? 0% chance AMD implements any form of DDR6 until next arch generation as is.
It's a speculation thread so looking in the crystal ball is part and parcel. Some here think it is possible, which spurred responses. But I agree, no chance Zen 6 isn't AM5.
Zen 5 might barely make it to 119 seconds :p
Bro WTF? you linked to Reddit for a main page article? 🤣 BTW, the top 7600X in the Dolphin forum spreadsheet knocks 20 seconds off of Gavin's results there. Tweakers will have Zen 5 well under 120 if the 71% improvement is accurate.
 

gdansk

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LOL! No they won't. Both vendors have managed to make new CPUs compatible with more than one generation of DDR over the years. Including Inel's latest platform. That reasoning isn't going to cut it. AM4 set expectations, which during interviews concerning AM5 longevity AMD assured it would have a long life. They will get incinerated if they don't support at least 3 gens on AM5. Mark my words.
Consider the likely Zen 6 launch date (Zen 5 release and add 20±4 months) and remember AMD's earlier statements: "we're making a commitment to support the AM5 platform with new technologies and next generation architectures through at least 2025".

Zen 6 is probably 2026 which means it may or may not be AM5. AMD kept its options open for some reason.
 

DAPUNISHER

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Consider the likely Zen 6 launch date (Zen 5 release and add 20±4 months) and remember AMD's earlier statements: "we're making a commitment to support the AM5 platform with new technologies and next generation architectures through at least 2025".

Zen 6 is probably 2026 which means it may or may not be AM5. AMD is keeping its options open for some reason.
Just mark my words: No amount of technically correct, the best kind of correct , will save them from the virtual lynch mob if they pull a tick tock with AM5. Zen 5 by most accounts is shaping up to be a champ. They will go from hero to zero at the speed of c in a vacuum. It'll be worse than anything you have seen in a long time. Outrage culture hasn't even reached its final form yet, that could be what does it.

Anyways, I'll make room for more juicy leaks and speculation by others. I just could not resist weighing in. My bad.
 

adroc_thurston

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So KRK fully replaces it
yea
KRK should be a smaller die than HWK,
Naa.
so it's cheaper for AMD to sell it at lower price points for OEMs.
They're just gonna leverage CPU/GPU/battery life advantages to plow thru the market.
Premium AI PCs design this year then.
many.
They can capture more of the market, specially with a weaker Intel
mss is worthless unless you maintain the margin target.
AMD needs to execute from top to bottom to gain this mindshare and stablish their designs as as good as Intel or even better in the consumer mind.
been like that since RNR lmao
Will Kraken / Krackan have an AM5 version like Phoenix2?
I've no idea.
(Or is it as cut-down in IO as Mendocino, making that impossible?)
Mendo/Sonoma Valley are Very Different Products for Very Different Things on a Very Different Platform (FT6), not related to anything mainstream/premium mobile.
Actually, is there ever going to be any cheaper/lowend APU product for AM5, below the level of Ryzen 8300G?
haha you're funny man.
no.
Its amazing to me how we're still watching DDR5 roll out to the masses and people are acting like DDR6 is right around the corner, I bet AM6 doesn't happen until at least 2028.


Why are people talking about D6 in the Zen 5 thread anyways? 0% chance AMD implements any form of DDR6 until next arch generation as is.
bold of you to assume DDR6 will ever come to client.
They can go up to DDR5-10000 which has been reached under overclocking conditions already. May need newer mobos with better traces for that, especially for the budget ones but I don't think people would mind buying A720M or B750 mobos if those can work up to DDR5-10000 stock settings of at least CL40.
or they say it's time to bend over and use LPCAMM(2).
Why skip AM5 if it's DDR5?
well, fatter PCH with x8 uplink for once.
But again, you can do platform change for truly arbitrary reasons.
 

Ghostsonplanets

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Mar 1, 2024
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Really? Bigger than HWK is surprinsing give that we're talking about 8 Z4 Cores + 6WGP against 4(2) Z5 + 4 Z5C cores + 4(2?) WGP. Is the fatter NPU that big of an area glut?
They're just gonna leverage CPU/GPU/battery life advantages to plow thru the market.
Alright, that make sense. I'm really excited to see KRK mainstream laptops next year.
bold of you to assume DDR6 will ever come to client.
Right. Doesn't DDR6 roadmap projects it for commercial release towards the end of this decade? And with focus on Server. Consumer/Client will fully migrate towards LPDDR on Laptops and LPCAMM2 format on DIY and Laptops.

DDR on DIY should be no more. Just like DIY will have changed a lot by the end of this decade.
 
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adroc_thurston

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Is the fatter NPU that big of an area glut?
Sorta.
I'm really excited to see KRK mainstream laptops next year.
hell yeah thinkpads
Doesn't DDR6 roadmap projects it for commercial release towards the end of this decade?
Earlier. we need the bandwidth.
Consumer/Client will fully migrate towards LPDDR on Laptops and LPCAMM2 format on DIY and Laptops.
bingo, LPCAMM is a wonderful thing and DIMMs suck.