Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[bakyt115]

bases on chipsandcheese.com article seems like mlid "leak" is useless.

 

[yuri69]

bases on chipsandcheese.com article seems like mlid "leak" is useless.

The article states the features mentioned on the slide are not specific enough - majority of the listed features are common gen-to-gen changes. However, it doesn't specifically address the IPC figures on the 2nd slide.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

I only have one complaint about the Chipsandcheese article:

64 Byte Fills/Victim

This line on the slide talks about caching. “Fills” refers to cache fills, and “victim” refers to lines kicked out of a cache to make room for data being filled in. I’m confused because every CPU in recent history uses 64 byte cache lines, which means caches manage data at 64 byte granularity. Thus, data is evicted 64 bytes at a time, and brought in 64 bytes at a time. It’s not a point worth mentioning.

I think it's fairly clear what is meant here. Currently, all Zen CPUs have 32-byte data paths between caches. When there is a miss to a higher cache level, it takes two cycles to do a fill, 32 bytes at a time. I think 64 Byte fills means that this path has been widened to full cache line width, at least between L2 and L1.

 

[Thunder 57]

Chipsandcheese doesn't seem to optimistic about Zen 5. At least that is what I thought after reading the article. It is refreshing to see another AGU since store seemed to be a moderate bottleneck according to their tests. If they are going to 6 ALU's I think they pretty much have to an AGU too.

 

[Fjodor2001]

If i were to buy new machine, i guess i would rather wait for Zen5, unless i was budget constrained and would be forced to take cheaper option in form of discounted Zen4.

Regardless of price difference?

The 7950X3D is around $650 now, and will likely be $500-600 by BF. Meanwhile some in this thread have suggested the non-X3D successor 8950X will be around $999. Now if 8950X is only 15% faster than 7950X3D, would you still be willing to wait ~6 months for 8950X and pay close to double the price for it compared to 7950X3D?

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Regardless of price difference?

The 7950X3D is around $650 now, and will likely be $500-600 by BF. Meanwhile some in this thread have suggested the non-X3D successor 8950X will be around $999. Now if 8950X is only 15% faster than 7950X3D, would you still be willing to wait ~6 months for 8950X and pay close to double the price for it compared to 7950X3D?

They won't sell It for $999, If the performance is only 15% above 7950X3D and even that excluding games.

 

[CakeMonster]

I'd probably just get the 8950X straight away. I still don't like the dependency on heterogenous cores prioritization. I'd also have it for longer, and with price trends in the recent CPU and GPU generations its better to get a product as early as possible in the cycle.

 

[Thunder 57]

Regardless of price difference?

The 7950X3D is around $650 now, and will likely be $500-600 by BF. Meanwhile some in this thread have suggested the non-X3D successor 8950X will be around $999. Now if 8950X is only 15% faster than 7950X3D, would you still be willing to wait ~6 months for 8950X and pay close to double the price for it compared to 7950X3D?

By someone with zero credibility (yet). I don't see it being more than $800. Too bad we have to wait awhile to find out.

 

[Saylick]

I'd probably just get the 8950X straight away. I still don't like the dependency on heterogenous cores prioritization. I'd also have it for longer, and with price trends in the recent CPU and GPU generations its better to get a product as early as possible in the cycle.

I just want Strix Halo in a compact form factor, like a mini PC or laptop, and would be happy to pay a premium for it provided it offers top notch ST performance and a solid iGPU that can drive 1440p60 with ease.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

I just want Strix Halo in a compact form factor, like a mini PC or laptop, and would be happy to pay a premium for it provided it offers top notch ST performance and a solid iGPU that can drive 1440p60 with ease.

CPU part will be one of the best.
IGP will be relatively powerful, but I don't think It will play everything at 1440p60 at full details with RT off.
I think 6700XT performance could be doable.
For a reasonable price I would consider It too in a laptop.

 

[adroc_thurston]

I just want Strix Halo in a compact form factor, like a mini PC or laptop

Well it's made for laptops.
NUCs, well. Minisforum will probably stick it in for sure.

 

[jpiniero]

I just want Strix Halo in a compact form factor, like a mini PC or laptop, and would be happy to pay a premium for it provided it offers top notch ST performance and a solid iGPU that can drive 1440p60 with ease.

But will OEMs, esp if it's a preminum over an nVidia dGPU setup.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

But will OEMs, esp if it's a preminum over an nVidia dGPU setup.

I think Asus and Lenovo will release a model with Strix Halo.

A laptop with a fast CPU is pretty expensive, even If you choose one with a weaker dGPU.
Cheapest:
i9 13900HX + RTX 4060 + 32GB DDR5 + 1TB SSD = 1 749 €
i9 13900HX + RTX 4070 + 32GB DDR5 + 1TB SSD = 2 109 €

 

[Saylick]

Well it's made for laptops.
NUCs, well. Minisforum will probably stick it in for sure.

It may be made for laptops, but I'm pretty sure no thin and light laptop will be able to dissipate 90W of power, which I'm guessing is what it will take to let Strix Halo really stretch its legs. I ain't trying to lug around a desktop replacement here.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

It may be made for laptops, but I'm pretty sure no thin and light laptop will be able to dissipate 90W of power, which I'm guessing is what it will take to let Strix Halo really stretch its legs. I ain't trying to lug around a desktop replacement here.

Is a 1.732 kg, 14.5-inch Lenovo Legion Slim 5 also a desktop replacement for you? Notebookcheck.net
153.7W during Witcher 3 using external monitor.

edit:
2.132kg, 16-inch Legion Slim 7i 16 Gen 8
Notebookcheck.net
167.5W during Witcher 3 using external monitor.

 

[adroc_thurston]

but I'm pretty sure no thin and light laptop will be able to dissipate 90W of power

MBP 14" and the likes of it aren't very thin FYI.

which I'm guessing is what it will take to let Strix Halo really stretch its legs

It's a 120W part.

 

[Saylick]

Is a 1.732 kg, 14.5-inch Lenovo Legion Slim 5 also a desktop replacement for you? Notebookcheck.net
153.7W during Witcher 3 using external monitor.

edit:
2.132kg, 16-inch Legion Slim 7i 16 Gen 8
Notebookcheck.net
167.5W during Witcher 3 using external monitor.

Nice. My preconceptions of heavy laptops is the Dell Precision models which are mobile workstations. It's like 3kg and 1" thick, which is pretty substantial.

 

[Fjodor2001]

They won't sell It for $999, If the performance is only 15% above 7950X3D and even that excluding games.

So what price do you expect instead for 8950X, assuming only 16C and only 15% perf increase?

 

[Goop_reformed]

So what price do you expect instead for 8950X, assuming only 16C and only 15% perf increase?

To be fair, amd said 10-15%+ Also don't forget about the allegedly clock reduction.

 

[Fjodor2001]

By someone with zero credibility (yet). I don't see it being more than $800. Too bad we have to wait awhile to find out.

The price $999 for 16C 8950X was mentioned by adroc_thurston, whom some here apparently hail as an AMD insider, whether accurate or not. If not accurate, I guess that puts his insider status into question.

 

[Fjodor2001]

To be fair, amd said 10-15%+ Also don't forget about the allegedly clock reduction.

Well, I said 15% perf. So that would be the net of any IPC increase and frequency reduction.

Or are you suggesting 10-15% IPC increase, with frequency reduction of X %, resulting in 10-15% IPC - X% frequency reduction, resulting in 10-15% - X% net performance improvement for Zen5 over Zen4?

 

[H433x0n]

Well, I said 15% perf. So that would be the net of any IPC increase and frequency reduction.

Or are you suggesting 10-15% IPC increase, with frequency reduction of X %, resulting in 10-15% IPC - X% frequency reduction, resulting in 10-15% - X% net performance improvement for Zen5 over Zen4?

Well @Olrak29_ said “Zen 5%” but that likely means absolutely nothing. He’s the absolute worst - truly. He enjoys the weird power that comes with tweeting random cryptic statements about how great AMD is. Out of the 1 billion or so accounts on twitter he probably runs the worst account.

So could mean something or could be totally useless 🤷‍♂️

 

[Ajay]

Well, I said 15% perf. So that would be the net of any IPC increase and frequency reduction.

Or are you suggesting 10-15% IPC increase, with frequency reduction of X %, resulting in 10-15% IPC - X% frequency reduction, resulting in 10-15% - X% net performance improvement for Zen5 over Zen4?

If IPC is only 10-15% above Zen4, then there will be no clock reduction on TSMC N4P. It would take more XTORS (high IPC) than that to actually push clocks down. Anyway, AMD are probably sandbagging.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Anyway, AMD are probably sandbagging.

This is what I’m suspecting as well.

We have basically no official info about anything. Not core count, not IPC, not clocks, not introduction of efficiency cores, not IO die, not chipset, not price, not release date, etc. No nothing.

I suspect they do not want to hurt Zen4 sales by having people wait for Zen5, and also do not want to give the competition (Intel) any leads.

But I could be wrong, and Zen5 will actually be as bad as mentioned in my previous recent posts (only 15% perf increase, and price bump to around $999). However then I’ll definetely go for Zen4 instead, which would be much better bang for the buck.

 

[Thunder 57]

The price $999 for 16C 8950X was mentioned by adroc_thurston, whom some here apparently hail as an AMD insider, whether accurate or not. If not accurate, I guess that puts his insider status into question.

I know who said it, and I think he is full of it. Or perhaps just misinformed.I do actually tend to think that he believes what he is claiming. His personality being as abrasive as sandpaper is annoying too.