Question Zen 4 builders thread

[Markfw]

I know its early, but as someone pointed out, I better get my ram now before the scalpers are all over it.

To go with a 7950x, what do you think of this ram:

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr5-sdram/p/N82E16820374369?Item=N82E16820374369

(edited for my best recommendation, 12/5/2023)

 

[lopri]

I've been running Corecycler since yesterday. What am I supposed to do with it? As far as I can see it is on iteration 12.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Just updated to AGESA 1.0.0.4 (BIOS F8g for my X670E Aorus Master)

Same settings as the last time I posted this. Solid gains in read and write.

View attachment 73625

View attachment 73626

my score before the update with the same settings was ~6m 7s

Fine wine DDR5 controller

 

[eek2121]

Every so often I see a core under core clocks in the mid 6 ghz range. It HAS to be a reading error, right? But it's under Core Effective Clocks this time! I might try reaching out to the HWInfo team. It has to be a misread or something.

 

[lopri]

OMG? That is amazing! Is that a 79x0? Highest I'd seen before yours is Det0x's at 6.065GHz

 

[repoman0]

That was the point I was getting at. -25 CO across all cores works for you.

That same CPU at -25 CO all cores wouldn't work for me and the standards I set through testing. Unless, by some miracle, you do truly have a 7950X that passes all tests with a -25 all core CO.

My 7950x passes CoreCycler just fine for days at -30 all core (no overclock) but it won’t idle and occasionally crashes during lighter loads. Wish the CO offsets would only adjust the v/f curve at like 4.5 GHz+.

I’m running it at -10 now. Realistically I’ll never notice if the chip is any faster because it’s already extremely quick, but I do notice every crash and the time I waste testing for no real world gain 😂

 

[Justinus]

Fine wine DDR5 controller

Now I just need to see if there's any improvement in FCLK or RAM config, been stuck at 2067/6200, can't manage 2100/2133 or 6400. I briefly tried to tighten my timings to CL28 but it didn't work out, memtest errors with more voltage than I really wanted to give it (1.55v)

 

[lopri]

My Corecycler is at iteration 17 currently and I am clueless as to what I am supposed to do next.

 

[lopri]

Techpowerup has a memory review that shows the unimportance of memory overclocking on the current AM5 platform. (outside of synthetic stuff, ofc)

G.SKILL Flare X5 DDR5-6000 CL32 (AMD) 2x 16 GB Review

G.SKILL brings forward the Flare X line to the DDR5 market. In today's review we will be using the new EXPO 6000 MT/s profile that's optimized for Zen 4 using modest primary timings of 32-38-38-96. This kit is designed and marketed for AMD and targets the "sweet spot" that is getting all the...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[eek2121]

OMG? That is amazing! Is that a 79x0? Highest I'd seen before yours is Det0x's at 6.065GHz

It's a bug in HWInfo. 🤣

No idea why it is doing it, but tonight:

 

[lopri]

Edit: Never mind.

 

[Chaotic42]

Ahhh... feels good to have a normal amount of memory again. Threw in another 64GB. It's kind of absurd how long it took to start up, and I'm running some tests to see how much going from 5600 to 3600 hurts.

Edit:
So my first bit of testing is with a Collatz Conjecture program I made. The big issue with it is trimming the number chains in memory. Obviously more memory means more trimming without writing to disk, but memory speed seems to make a difference:

64GB @ 5600MT/s:

Coll:   50,000,000
Start:  2022-12-17 02:38:52.588186
Load:   0:00:00.000275
Calc:   0:00:43.289734
Trim:   0:00:50.752078
Write:  0:03:17.167106
Total:  0:04:51.209193

128GB @ 3600MT/s

Coll:   50,000,000
Start:  2022-12-31 19:18:56.978718
Load:   0:00:00.000018
Calc:   0:00:54.267866
Trim:   0:01:09.794062
Write:  0:03:31.595547
Total:  0:05:35.657493

Pretty significantly slower as long as I don't run out of memory. I'm going to play with it to see if I can get the system to push the memory over 3600. No big loss if not, I'm going to build another DDR5 system fairly soon, so I can just re-use the memory in it if I need. It will be interesting to see how other workloads are affected.

 

[BGod]

Well, not that it does not do some good, but I have 3 7950x and none of these and no problems at all..

I tried these as well. Crumpled them up, threw them away. Put Kryonaut on my 7950X and slapped on a 360mm AIO and called it a day!

 

[lopri]

5600 to 3600 is a large difference indeed. My earlier comment was really for those who are trying to go higher than 6000. 128 GB is a different beast altogether it seems.

 

[Timmah!]

5600 to 3600 is a large difference indeed. My earlier comment was really for those who are trying to go higher than 6000. 128 GB is a different beast altogether it seems.

so it seems unless you truly need 128GB, its not worth it.
i wonder if they can fix this with bios updates or new revision if not generation of CPUs will be needed to get there.

 

[eek2121]

so it seems unless you truly need 128GB, its not worth it.
i wonder if they can fix this with bios updates or new revision if not generation of CPUs will be needed to get there.

An ASUS rep believes it is a memory controller limitation. AMD will likely need a refresh with an optimized memory controller to overcome these limitations.

The desktop chips were designed around uh...desktop usage. AMD likely did not anticipate high memory capacities, at least with 4 DIMMs.

 

[igor_kavinski]

AMD likely did not anticipate high memory capacities, at least with 4 DIMMs.

Or they intended high memory users to get their fix from the Threadripper Pro 5000 series.

Engineer: Uh, 128GB RAM is being handled very slow. We'll need to respin to improve its performance.
Management: #$@!%*&^, NO! We already have a solution for that. Threadripper Pro and Epyc!
Engineer: But...
Management: No BUTS! Do you want to be re-assigned to the Zen 3 support team?
Engineer: No, Sir! I understand completely. Anyone who has the need for 128GB RAM probably already has enough money to shell out for our Professional platforms. (mutters to himself: crap, now I have to pay for TR Pro too. Wish they would offer me a discount!)

 

[Timmah!]

An ASUS rep believes it is a memory controller limitation. AMD will likely need a refresh with an optimized memory controller to overcome these limitations.

The desktop chips were designed around uh...desktop usage. AMD likely did not anticipate high memory capacities, at least with 4 DIMMs.

imo they should have been anticipating the highest memory capacity usage the platform supports. Buying expensive am5 motherboard and RAM and then run it at DDR4 speeds, because AMD thought that would be ok, kinda sucks.

Luckily i am fine with 64GB, but would be fairly annoyed by this, if i was not.

 

[igor_kavinski]

imo they should have been anticipating the highest memory capacity usage the platform supports. Buying expensive am5 motherboard and RAM and then run it at DDR4 speeds, because AMD thought that would be ok, kinda sucks.

Worse than DDR4 speeds since the latency for DDR5-3600 would be much higher than DDR4-3600. If they enabled quad channel specifically for 128GB configurations, that would compensate somewhat for this sad situation.

 

[Kaluan]

Think i have completed my daily memory profile now, mostly tighten tRFC settings from previous revision

All settings should be shown here:

https://imgur.com/a/19w7yUA

Man, can't wait to see what you can do with the new 1.0.0.4 AGESA 😁

Fingers crossed it's a 3 steps forward not a 2 steps forward 1 step back one.

 

[Chaotic42]

Or they intended high memory users to get their fix from the Threadripper Pro 5000 series.

Engineer: Uh, 128GB RAM is being handled very slow. We'll need to respin to improve its performance.
Management: #$@!%*&^, NO! We already have a solution for that. Threadripper Pro and Epyc!
Engineer: But...
Management: No BUTS! Do you want to be re-assigned to the Zen 3 support team?
Engineer: No, Sir! I understand completely. Anyone who has the need for 128GB RAM probably already has enough money to shell out for our Professional platforms. (mutters to himself: crap, now I have to pay for TR Pro too. Wish they would offer me a discount!)

Looks like Microcenter has the 16-Core 5955WX Pro for $1300, which is... fine-ish? Pop a set of this in there and you're ready to go:

https://www.amazon.com/8x256GB-DDR4-3200-PC4-25600-Registered-Workstations/dp/B08F2V9QZ9

As far as whether AM5 *should* work at full speed with 128GB... eh? I'd obviously like it to at least hit 4800. I'm sure that all 8 of us who are trying to run 128GB of 4x2R memory are worth AMD spending the engineering time getting it working.

Fortunately it's easy to pop two of the DIMMs out if I need speed over capacity.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I'm sure that all 8 of us who are trying to run 128GB of 4x2R memory are worth AMD spending the engineering time getting it working.

AMD has too much money now to care about us little people

 

[JM Popaleetus]

For those of us with Gigabyte motherboards, new BIOS dropped yesterday. Master is up to F8h: GIGABYTE Latest Beta BIOS - TweakTown Forums

Fixed every issue I had. Also, weirdly, Global C-State Control comes disabled by default on this release.

Only annoyance I can really find with this board is that backing up BIOS settings between versions doesn't seem to work. Fortunately, you can backup fan and timing profiles separately.

 

[Timmah!]

My 7950x passes CoreCycler just fine for days at -30 all core (no overclock) but it won’t idle and occasionally crashes during lighter loads. Wish the CO offsets would only adjust the v/f curve at like 4.5 GHz+.

I’m running it at -10 now. Realistically I’ll never notice if the chip is any faster because it’s already extremely quick, but I do notice every crash and the time I waste testing for no real world gain 😂

This actually interests me. Do you people actually feel the difference in overall responsiveness of the system and whatnot? I mean, compared to your previous hardware. Especially those, who upgraded from some older system (not Ryzen 5000 or AlderLake), if there is anyone like that around here. I am aware its faster at Cinebench/rendering,encoding/decoding,compressing and decompressing... but thats not what you do all the time. What about normal computer usage? Browsing web, multitasking... Is the 5,7GHz speed noticeable compared to some 5 years old 4~4,5GHz system? Or is that more dependent on RAM/fast SSD?

 

[In2Photos]

This actually interests me. Do you people actually feel the difference in overall responsiveness of the system and whatnot? I mean, compared to your previous hardware. Especially those, who upgraded from some older system (not Ryzen 5000 or AlderLake), if there is anyone like that around here. I am aware its faster at Cinebench/rendering,encoding/decoding,compressing and decompressing... but thats not what you do all the time. What about normal computer usage? Browsing web, multitasking... Is the 5,7GHz speed noticeable compared to some 5 years old 4~4,5GHz system? Or is that more dependent on RAM/fast SSD?

My daughter says her new PC is noticeably faster than her previous one. Programs open faster, updates install faster, browsing the web is faster, etc. Both of my kids PCs load games faster than mine, noticeably faster. Updates install significantly faster.

Her Previous system
Intel i7-4790
12GB DDR3
GTX 1660
500GB 2.5" Crucial SSD (OS)
1TB WD 7200RPM HDD (Games)

Her New system
7600X
32GB DDR5 6000
RX6800XT
1TB Solidigm P41 NVME (OS)
2TB Solidigm P41 NVME (GAMES)

My old as hell PC
i7-920 OC to 3.6GHz
24GB DDR3 1333
GTX 1060
500GB Samsung 2.5" SSD (OS)
1TB WD 7200RPM HDD (Games)

 

[Justinus]

This actually interests me. Do you people actually feel the difference in overall responsiveness of the system and whatnot? I mean, compared to your previous hardware. Especially those, who upgraded from some older system (not Ryzen 5000 or AlderLake), if there is anyone like that around here. I am aware its faster at Cinebench/rendering,encoding/decoding,compressing and decompressing... but thats not what you do all the time. What about normal computer usage? Browsing web, multitasking... Is the 5,7GHz speed noticeable compared to some 5 years old 4~4,5GHz system? Or is that more dependent on RAM/fast SSD?

Generally it's kind of a one way street - There's some perceptible improvement in overall responsiveness (barring a major upgrade), but where it becomes most apparent to me is after using a new system for a while, then going back and using the old system. Suddenly every hitch, stutter, program that takes 1/2-1 second longer to open (like a browser, opening a folder in explorer, etc - stuff that generally opens quickly) is totally apparent. And this is stuff I notice even after fresh installing an old system to prepare it for someone else, not stuff that's due to an older/bogged down windows installation.

I noticed it prepping my 5950X system after primarily using 7950X for a month or two.