Question Zen 4 builders thread

[Markfw]

I know its early, but as someone pointed out, I better get my ram now before the scalpers are all over it.

To go with a 7950x, what do you think of this ram:

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr5-sdram/p/N82E16820374369?Item=N82E16820374369

(edited for my best recommendation, 12/5/2023)

 

[Markfw]

I do not know if you guys have tried Eco mode, but if not, you should. It is shocking.

Late to the party ! Some use ECO mode, I use CO to -25. So 142.160 watt are all these settings, and the productivity is almost the same, but temps and voltage way down. Mine is 142 watt.

 

[eek2121]

I do not know if you guys have tried Eco mode, but if not, you should. It is shocking.

Try eco mode @65W. The 7950X still runs circles around the 5950X.

 

[Timmah!]

Well, when mine gets blacklisted I'll PM you I hope you reserve one for that day.


Look above, his 7950X can do 6065 MHz.

I will give mine a shot.

I demand a step-by-step tutorial how to achieve that

Merry Christmas everyone!

 

[Dave3000]

I read a review on the 7000 series Ryzens and it showed that the 7900X and 7950X have much better memory read speeds than the 7600X and 7700X in AIDA 64. Aren't memory read speeds much more important than memory writes speeds for gaming as I heard that memory write speeds were not as important as memory read speeds for gaming with the 5900X and 5950X having much better memory write speeds than the 5600X and 5800X as shown in AIDA 64. I always heard that Ryzen CPUs (not counting the 5800X3D) benefit greatly from fast memory and those low memory read scores in AIDA 64 with the 7600X and 7700X have me concerned as I don't need more than 8 cores but I need to get the 12-16 core Ryzen 7000's if I want the additional memory read speeds. Is that additional memory read speed of the 7900X and 7950X put to use in gaming or are those CPUs designed in a way that gaming won't take advantage of the additional memory read speed that AIDA 64 shows? Also I can easily afford the 7950X but I don't see the point in more than 8 cores / 16 threads for just gaming.

 

[biostud]

I read a review on the 7000 series Ryzens and it showed that the 7900X and 7950X have much better memory read speeds than the 7600X and 7700X in AIDA 64. Aren't memory read speeds much more important than memory writes speeds for gaming as I heard that memory write speeds were not as important as memory read speeds for gaming with the 5900X and 5950X having much better memory write speeds than the 5600X and 5800X as shown in AIDA 64. I always heard that Ryzen CPUs (not counting the 5800X3D) benefit greatly from fast memory and those low memory read scores in AIDA 64 with the 7600X and 7700X have me concerned as I don't need more than 8 cores but I need to get the 12-16 core Ryzen 7000's if I want the additional memory read speeds. Is that additional memory read speed of the 7900X and 7950X put to use in gaming or are those CPUs designed in a way that gaming won't take advantage of the additional memory read speed that AIDA 64 shows? Also I can easily afford the 7950X but I don't see the point in more than 8 cores / 16 threads for just gaming.

Wait until CES 2023 in start of January, to hopefully learn more about zen4 3D

 

[lopri]

@Markfw I am shocked at the incompetence of AMD's management. Whose idea is it to ruin such fine chips with nonsensical, marketing-driven stock configuration? Maybe not marketing driven, since people do not like their CPUs running at 95C. But whatever it is that Lisa Su & Co were aiming, I can't say it was a right decision.

I thought I was done tweaking this system but Eco mode threw a cold water on that plan, and now I am back at testing. It appears that my chip is capable of running as fast as or faster than stock in Eco mode, via PBO/CO manipulation. Or it's very close. I need to make sure it's stable, though, and that's the fun part. (ugh)

@Dave3000 Memory speed in and of itself is not as important, I do not think. Especially for Zen 4. But memory controller speed is tied to memory frequency, and both of them are limited by Infinity Fabric. Write speed appears completely governed by Infinity Fabric frequency as it has been in previous zen platforms. And dual-CCD CPUs is x2 of single CCD's.

@Det0x What is your cooler rating in ASUS BIOS? Out of curiosity. Any secret in memory tweaking? With 4 sticks, I just can't lower tRFC to a reasonable level. How much voltage do you give for benching and what do you consider a safe 24/7 voltage?

Edit: Oh and Merry Christmas!

 

[igor_kavinski]

It appears that my chip is capable of running as fast as or faster than stock in Eco mode, via PBO/CO manipulation.

Yeah coz despite what AMD says about 95C being normal, it holds the CPU back due to it being forced to downclock frequently to avoid going over that limit.

 

[Markfw]

Yeah coz despite what AMD says about 95C being normal, it holds the CPU back due to it being forced to downclock frequently to avoid going over that limit.

I don't know why they did that. Mine run at 90,85 and 80c (as the coolers got smaller).

 

[biostud]

Temperature in itself is not a problem if its running within specifications, it's the total heat dissipated that is the problem. Obviously it would be better if there were no hotspots on the CPU, but I doubt that is possible.

 

[lopri]

 

[In2Photos]

Got my daughter's new build up and running.

7600X w/ ID cooling SE-226-XT
32GB Gskill Flare 6000 C36
Gigabyte B650 Aorus Elite AX
ASRock 6800XT Taichi
Deep Cool 750w PSU
Solidigm P41 M.2 drives
Lian Li 216 case

Build went smoothly except for 2 things, I didn't have a screwdriver long enough to mount the cooler, thought I did, had to borrow one from my neighbor. The other one was a bit more frustrating and I'm not 100% sure what fixed it.

For some reason the system wouldn't post. It was stuck on DRAM. I tried 2 sticks, 1 stick, different slots, clearing CMOS. Nothing worked. So I did a BIOS update. Still couldn't get it to post with 1 stick. So I swapped sticks and cleared the CMOS again and it finally posted. Added the second stick and no post again. Swapped the second stick into the first slot and it posted. Added the second stick back and it posted again. I know these systems need to train the memory but I left plenty of time each reboot. I don't know why it gave me so much trouble but once it posted with 2 sticks it's been fine.

First boot with the GPU had no video output. Rebooted and it worked and has worked fine ever since.

The 160mm fans on the Lian Li case move a ton of air! It was also very easy to build in.

Still have some tuning and testing to do, but she has already played a few games with extremely smooth gameplay.

 

[igor_kavinski]

she has already played a few games with extremely smooth gameplay.

That's what counts in the end.



Great case choice!

Glad that everything worked out fine in the end. How will you be stress testing the system?

 

[Dave3000]

Is the B650E a true AMD chipset or is it a rebranded ASmedia chipset? I'm thinking that if I upgrade to the upcoming 8-core 7700X3D/7800X3D (or whatever the 8-core X3D 7000 model is going to be called) or to a 7950X, that I go with either an Asus X670E TUF or a higher tier B650E motherboard. Is the B650E chipset as reliable as the X670E chipset? I want a reliable motherboard for my next CPU upgrade.

 

[biostud]

Is the B650E a true AMD chipset or is it a rebranded ASmedia chipset? I'm thinking that if I upgrade to the upcoming 8-core 7700X3D/7800X3D (or whatever the 8-core X3D 7000 model is going to be called) or to a 7950X, that I go with either an Asus X670E TUF or a higher tier B650E motherboard. Is the B650E chipset as reliable as the X670E chipset? I want a reliable motherboard for my next CPU upgrade.

The X670 is basically just two B650 chipset put together, so the only reason to choose X670 is if you need the extra connectivity.

Enthusiast AMD Ryzen 7000 goes full PCIe Gen 5 with two daisy-chained X670 ASMedia PROM21 chipsets, A620 to launch later alongside Rembrandt desktop APUs

AMD announced the arrival of desktop Ryzen 7000 processors based on the Zen 4 architecture at Computex 2022. Ryzen 7000 is supported by new X670E/X670, B650, and A620 chipsets. The X670 series is daisy-chained to maximize I/O. It is being learnt that the low-end A620 chipset will launch...

www.notebookcheck.net

 

[In2Photos]

Glad that everything worked out fine in the end. How will you be stress testing the system?

I'm planning on undervolting both the CPU and GPU so I'll likely use a combination of prime 95, Cinebench, Heaven, and possibly 3DMark and tweak settings in either the BIOS or Ryzen Master and also Adrenaline or Afterburner. This is my first time using a Radeon GPU (other than something very basic) so I'm hoping for some good results without too much trouble. I'm not going too far with this, just want to try and get some extra performance while lowering the power consumption and heat.

 

[lopri]

Gotta tell you, Hynix memory is way overvalued in current market. Especially on Ryzen I think Samsung-based memory might even be better because it does tighter tRCD and tRC. I guess long term Hynix memory could have a slightly better utility for higher frequencies, but even then Samsung is no slouch, either.

But I do not like how hot they gets. I have no idea how people are giving 1.4V+ for their daily systems.

 

[Timmah!]

I still did not get to put my build together, for various reasons, and since it seems i will be under some work crunch right away from the start of the next week till at least mid-January, i may not even get to it until then. When is the CES again? Maybe i will end up returning the 7950x for 7950x3D, if things will turn out this way, lol.

Anyway, in the meantime i was at least "playing around" with all those pretty colorful boxes and noticed that the RAM kit (G-Skill 64GB Trident Neo Z5 RGB Black 6000MHz CL 30-40-40-96, product number F5-6000J3040G32GX2-TZ5RK ) has a XMP 3.0 sticker on the box, but no mention of EXPO. Will this be an issue, i mean if i wanted to run them at that 6000 speed on AM5 platform? The board is Asus X670e Hero.

The other thing, i bought 2x 2TB M2 drives and 1x 4TB SATA SSD drive. I intend to put first 2 into the slots connected directly to CPU. The SATA one will go into one of the SATA ports, which i presume is connected via the chipset. I intend to migrate 2 of my HDDs from my current rig as well, so 3 SATA devices overall. And then, i was thinking migrating Samsung 960 EVO 512GB as well, which is M2 PCI-E 3.0 x4 - it would go into one of the remaining M2 sockets, which i presume are too connected via chipset. Would all of this create bottleneck, too many devices, especially with this M2 included? Or is it OK?

 

[CakeMonster]

Anyway, in the meantime i was at least "playing around" with all those pretty colorful boxes and noticed that the RAM kit (G-Skill 64GB Trident Neo Z5 RGB Black 6000MHz CL 30-40-40-96, product number F5-6000J3040G32GX2-TZ5RK ) has a XMP 3.0 sticker on the box, but no mention of EXPO. Will this be an issue, i mean if i wanted to run them at that 6000 speed on AM5 platform? The board is Asus X670e Hero.

Nope, not an issue, I have a very similar kit, just slightly different timings and the same mobo. Just stick with official BIOS'es since I struggled getting it to boot with OC'ed RAM with some beta BIOS'es. I just set the timings manually down to all the subtimings I've tweaked and it runs fine. It is a bit trickier to manually OC with longer boot times and more resets compared to Z3, but I'd still say running XMP works just fine and I suspect those issues will be sorted in the end just like on Z3.

 

[Timmah!]

Nope, not an issue, I have a very similar kit, just slightly different timings and the same mobo. Just stick with official BIOS'es since I struggled getting it to boot with OC'ed RAM with some beta BIOS'es. I just set the timings manually down to all the subtimings I've tweaked and it runs fine. It is a bit trickier to manually OC with longer boot times and more resets compared to Z3, but I'd still say running XMP works just fine and I suspect those issues will be sorted in the end just like on Z3.

Thanks. Does this mean i will have to set it up manually? Or will i be able pick XMP 3.0 on AMD system?
I am not looking to OC RAM beyond that 6000MHz value and regarding BIOS, if everything works out of the box, i wont probably even bother to update it initially - definitely not to some beta bios. Although down the road, i would like to decrease the CPU temps while keeping the clocks/performance via that Curve Optimizer. At this point i have only broad idea how its done, will need to do some studying and asking questions around here Since you have the same mobo, i hope it wont bother you too much if i will seek your advice by then again

 

[Markfw]

Thanks. Does this mean i will have to set it up manually? Or will i be able pick XMP 3.0 on AMD system?
I am not looking to OC RAM beyond that 6000MHz value and regarding BIOS, if everything works out of the box, i wont probably even bother to update it initially - definitely not to some beta bios. Although down the road, i would like to decrease the CPU temps while keeping the clocks/performance via that Curve Optimizer. At this point i have only broad idea how its done, will need to do some studying and asking questions around here Since you have the same mobo, i hope it wont bother you too much if i will seek your advice by then again

Find curve optimizer. choose negative offsetup use something between -5 and -25 (mine are all -25) Then find max temp, and set it to 75 (or your choice)
Set memory to EXPO .

Done.

 

[eek2121]

Thanks. Does this mean i will have to set it up manually? Or will i be able pick XMP 3.0 on AMD system?
I am not looking to OC RAM beyond that 6000MHz value and regarding BIOS, if everything works out of the box, i wont probably even bother to update it initially - definitely not to some beta bios. Although down the road, i would like to decrease the CPU temps while keeping the clocks/performance via that Curve Optimizer. At this point i have only broad idea how its done, will need to do some studying and asking questions around here Since you have the same mobo, i hope it wont bother you too much if i will seek your advice by then again

Depends on the kit. I was able to set XMP (DOCP on ASUS) to on and everything worked great. Some folks have had not-so-great luck. Best to check if the memory is on QVL.

Regarding temps, Zen 4 is designed to target 90-95C and will boost as high as possible until either power limits or target temp is reached.

IMO it is better to adjust your fan curve than to mess with the target temp. If, for some odd reason, you really aren’t comfortable with the chip hitting 95C, there are BIOS options for targeting a lower temp. Just beware that you will lose more performance than if you simply changed your fan curve.

 

[CakeMonster]

Thanks. Does this mean i will have to set it up manually? Or will i be able pick XMP 3.0 on AMD system?
I am not looking to OC RAM beyond that 6000MHz value and regarding BIOS, if everything works out of the box, i wont probably even bother to update it initially - definitely not to some beta bios.

Yep, selecting DOCP worked just fine for me under all circumstances and after every reset, even on the first BIOS. I've tweaked a lot of the timings beyond that which also worked fine but was definitely a bit more hassle than mature Z3, and that's what is tricky with beta BIOS'es and probably not guaranteed on future BIOS'es.

I'd recommend starting out with the latest official BIOS still though, knowing the Z3 chipset history there probably is a lot of smaller bugs that affects all kinds of stuff and that trade off is probably worth it, especially early on in the chipset lifetime.

 

[In2Photos]

Did some really quick tuning on my daughter's PC today with pretty good results. I used Cinebech R23 to have some measurable performance values. I need to see how these compare with some of the review numbers to make sure everything is in line. 7600X with an ID Cooling SE-226-XT, single 120mm fan with a custom fan curve to try to keep noise down, same with the case fans.

Stock
Single core, 1944
Multi-core, 14,834, 5.167GHz, 93.5C @1.285V, fans hit 1640 RPM

PBO+CO (-30 all core)
Single core, 1957
Multi-core, 15,389, 5.360GHz, 80C @1.190V, fans hit 1200 RPM

Testing with some games now and seems to be running fine. In Fortnite she was at 60% CPU usage, 53C with high settings, 1080p, 144fps

 

[igor_kavinski]

PBO+CO (-30 all core)
Single core, 1957
Multi-core, 15,389, 5.360GHz, 80C @1.190V, fans hit 1200 RPM

That's amazing!

You make it sound so easy

Going AMD is rewarding when one takes the time to tinker. I guess that's why AMD users are so in love with their CPUs

Would you mind if I request you for one run of Geekbench 5, one run of Rapydmark High setting and MemMaxx2 for dessert?

 

[Det0x]

Think i have completed my daily memory profile now, mostly tighten tRFC settings from previous revision

All settings should be shown here:

https://imgur.com/a/19w7yUA