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Zen 2 for Distributed Computing: Any interest?

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biodoc

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2005
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Here's a preview of threadripper 3 processors from hardware canucks. It looks like they'll be great for content creation but TDP is high so are they the best choice for DC?

 

StefanR5R

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2016
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It looks like they'll be great for content creation but TDP is high so are they the best choice for DC?
These two TR 3000 models are a little more than two 12C or 16C Ryzens put into a single socket: Somewhat more than twice the sustained power consumption, with exactly twice the core count, certainly also nets you a little more than twice the computation. At the same time, MSRP of the processors is more than twice that of the Ryzens. And according to rumors, TRX40 mainboards will cost considerably more than twice than AM4 mainboards. Lastly, there are many more cooling options for 105 W class CPUs on a mainstream socket than for 280 W ones on a server-derived socket.
 

StefanR5R

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2016
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Until then, does anybody know [...] whether it is possible to operate Ryzen 3000 (non -G) PCs as headless Linux nodes, i.e. without a graphics card installed?
So I guess BIOSes of consumer mainboards refuse to boot without PCIe GPU or IGP. There is however an AM4 server board from ASRock Rack which comes with a baseboard management controller (BMC), X470D4U. Naturally, it is more expensive than a standard AM4 board + small PCIe GPU. And judging from the manual, the BIOS lacks options such as cTDP. If so, this board can't be used to tune Ryzen to efficiency levels of high-end Epyc models.
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
48,807
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These two TR 3000 models are a little more than two 12C or 16C Ryzens put into a single socket: Somewhat more than twice the sustained power consumption, with exactly twice the core count, certainly also nets you a little more than twice the computation. At the same time, MSRP of the processors is more than twice that of the Ryzens. And according to rumors, TRX40 mainboards will cost considerably more than twice than AM4 mainboards. Lastly, there are many more cooling options for 105 W class CPUs on a mainstream socket than for 280 W ones on a server-derived socket.
That is precisely the reasoning that I used, in picking up / assembling multiple AM4 Ryzen R5 1600 rigs early-on, rather than TR4 rigs.
 

biodoc

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2005
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And judging from the manual, the BIOS lacks options such as cTDP.
On page 61 of the manual (AMD CBS) there are sub menu items of which the details are not presented. cTDP could be under NBIO Common options.

EDIT: Also that looks like a Zen/Zen+ bios.
 
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StefanR5R

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2016
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Prompted by the news of a Ryzen 3900 (without -X) in early October, somebody tried different package power targets on a 3900X and reported Cinebench 20 results along with at-the-wall power consumption in a German forum. The test system had a lower-end HD 7750 GPU, a 650 W titanium-rated PSU, and was of course supplied from 230 V. Firmware was AGESA 1.0.0.3 ABBA.

The user calculated CB-points-per-Watt for package power in his post. I am showing CB-points-per-Watt for at-the-wall power instead.

comment
TDP (W)
PPT (W)
TDC (A)
EDC (A)
CPU package power (W)
Cinebench 20 points
relative performance
system power (W)
relative system power
points/W of system power
relative efficiency
stock​
105​
142​
95​
140​
127.5​
7360​
1.00​
189​
1.00​
39​
1.00​
hard limit​
105​
105​
95​
140​
107.6​
7119​
0.97​
161​
0.85​
44​
1.14​
eco mode​
65​
88​
60​
90​
89.1​
6942​
0.94​
137​
0.72​
51​
1.30​
hard limit​
65​
65​
60​
90​
66.6​
6426​
0.87​
107​
0.57​
60​
1.54​
sweetspot​
58​
60​
90​
59.4​
6125​
0.83​
98​
0.52​
62​
1.60​

The performance degradation at lower power targets is rather moderate. Consequently, the lowest PPT tested is the optimum for performane-per-Watt not only when looking solely at CPU power consumption, but also when taking all of the platform power consumption overhead into account. I wonder how representative this image rendering workload may be for other computing scenarios.
 
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biodoc

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2005
5,633
897
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I checked my 3900X bios (gigabyte aorus master; 1.0.0.3 ABBA) and I can set cTDP and PPT manually. There's no mention of these options in the manual. Once the WCG challenge is over, I'll have to do some experiments. Any suggestions on a boinc project?
 

StefanR5R

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2016
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Once the WCG challenge is over, I'll have to do some experiments. Any suggestions on a boinc project?
Somehow I can't recall any CPU project with highly uniform work units. But there is always the option to re-run select tasks outside of boinc. (Except for certain wrapper projects, such as some of the LHC@home subprojects, which side-load the real task definitions within the boinc task.) So we can eliminate WU variability in almost any project, but none comes to my mind for now in which we wouldn't have to go through hoops to do so.

Further, the tasks selected for benchmarking should have either a moderate runtime, or a sufficiently fine-grained progress reporting. (In the latter case the benchmark run could stop at a given time or at a given progress percentage.) The runtime needs to be long enough to keep hardware/ firmware/ operating system/ userland in a steady state for most of the benchmark run.
 

Assimilator1

Elite Member
Nov 4, 1999
23,476
195
106
I agree!!

I'm umm er my friend trying to decide between a x470 OR x570. I quite honestly do not see me needing a 570 but I am concerned about cooling of the VRM on a 470 running a 3900x. I find nothing that says there would be any issue with my YouTube worm hole I have fallen in. I do have an x470 MOBO that I could swap out the CPU and see if I run in to any issues. OTOH I'd rather start from scratch with a new machine that is to replace my DD. Either way I have time to decide since there is nothing wrong with my current DD.
The MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC has a very well regarded VRM cooling & power delivery circuit (and a decent sound chip too, unlike the Tomahawk!), and it's Bios supports Zen2. I am primarily looking at running a 3600 on one of these, but IIRC it should comfortably run an 3900X too :), but check that!
Btw, what's DD?

But there is always the option to re-run select tasks outside of boinc.
Interesting, I've been thinking of needing something like that for benchmarking MW for a few years, and somewhere around 10yrs ago for SETI! How do you do that?
 

Howdy

Senior member
Nov 12, 2017
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464
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The MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC has a very well regarded VRM cooling & power delivery circuit (and a decent sound chip too, unlike the Tomahawk!), and it's Bios supports Zen2. I am primarily looking at running a 3600 on one of these, but IIRC it should comfortably run an 3900X too :), but check that!


Btw, what's DD?
Thanks for the board suggestion!

DD= Daily Driver, the one I use to connect to the world!!!!
 

Assimilator1

Elite Member
Nov 4, 1999
23,476
195
106
Ah, I knew that for cars, didn't know it was used for PCs ;).

On refreshing my memory it seems that this mbrd might not be suitable for 3900Xs after all, although I'm getting conflicting info between THG's & Techspot's article of this mbrd.
THG says it has 8*+2 Phases (*Doubled) VRM (which is what I recalled), whilst Techspot says 4+2 o_O , so I'm not sure now & I'm still reading into it atm (again!).......
Maybe this VRM Tier list will help?
It seems I was getting CPUs mixed up, so the MSI B450 Gaming Pro carbon AC should be fine for the 3700X & 3800X (8C) but likely not for the 3900X according to that list, that said MSI show CPU support upto the 3950X! So I'm still not sure!

Lane 42's post on the 1st page states you need at least 8+2 for 8c CPUs.....
 
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Howdy

Senior member
Nov 12, 2017
566
464
106
Ah, I knew that for cars, didn't know it was used for PCs ;).

On refreshing my memory it seems that this mbrd might not be suitable for 3900Xs after all, although I'm getting conflicting info between THG's & Techspot's article of this mbrd.
THG says it has 8*+2 Phases (*Doubled) VRM (which is what I recalled), whilst Techspot says 4+2 o_O , so I'm not sure now & I'm still reading into it atm (again!).......
Maybe this VRM Tier list will help?
It seems I was getting CPUs mixed up, so the MSI B450 Gaming Pro carbon AC should be fine for the 3700X & 3800X (8C) but likely not for the 3900X according to that list, that said MSI show CPU support upto the 3950X! So I'm still not sure!

Lane 42's post on the 1st page states you need at least 8+2 for 8c CPUs.....
Maybe someone here coined it that and I was trying to fit in and look :cool:? Then again I do come from the automotive world and figured it was easier to call it that? It is easier than saying "the one I use every day" :smiley:

I have time to research more now since the latest purchase, still pointing to a Gigabyte Master though. Then again I do not have any need for an X570 board vs a X470, so I am still searching for my best option. I do have a Gigabyte Aorus Gaming WiFi7 that I could use and find another board for the current CPU that's in it. I might go that route since it will save me quite a bit of $$$$
 

Assimilator1

Elite Member
Nov 4, 1999
23,476
195
106
Automotive world here too ;), I'm a car mechanic (inde & Suzuki with my current job).
Daily Rig might be best for PCs :).

B450s are cheaper still than the X470s, seems the MSI one will be plenty good enough for me, the X570s are silly money as far as I'm concerned.
 

Howdy

Senior member
Nov 12, 2017
566
464
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Automotive world here too ;), I'm a car mechanic (inde & Suzuki with my current job).
Daily Rig might be best for PCs :).

B450s are cheaper still than the X470s, seems the MSI one will be plenty good enough for me, the X570s are silly money as far as I'm concerned.
I graduated from working on automotive :p (25yrs of pain and suffering). I'm now on mining, construction, cranes and material handler equipment.(13yrs) (Well anything actually that the customer wants us to work on) It pays a whole lot better than flat rate and my "office" changes almost daily. Then again I'm outside most of the time in whatever mother nature wants to throw out there.

B450s are a cheaper option, but I believe X470 is the "best" of the cheaper option. I agree X570 is silly money, pretty much why I never pulled the trigger.
 
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StefanR5R

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2016
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Pretty much all of the mainboard makers claim compatibility with all of the Ryzen models up to 105 W TDP for pretty much all of their mainboard models. Some of these claims may not make all that much sense.

Still, if we are speaking of a dedicated DC node here, then the seasoned DCer would probably make sure that BIOS settings are proper (i.e., no overvolting, no insane CPU package power limits, etc.), and might then get away with a rather low-end board for a high-end CPU still, even under 24/7/365 all-core duty.

Igor Wallossek of ex Tom's Hardware Germany used to look at such things in motherboard reviews. I'll go look if I find something useful among it.

Meanwhile, look at this 1U server which is specified to be compatible with 105 W CPUs as well. This looks like a 3+2 phases VRM design, doesn't it? Entire system cooling by 3 high-speed 40 mm fans (certainly providing for better airflow than in most home computers), operation temperature up to 35 °C of the environment: ASRock Rack 1U2LW-X470 server barebone
 

crashtech

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2013
9,512
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1U's are so noisy! But it's got me thinking, a gutted old 1U case, inverted and placed on top would allow the use of 80mm fans.
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
20,570
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I can't wait to see what dual 7551 EPYC's with 128 gb of memory will do for DC. I will make a post when everything gets here and I get it up and running.
 

TennesseeTony

Elite Member
Aug 2, 2003
3,855
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www.google.com
Nope, I keep finding them for less than the 3700X...I guess the TDP has made them unpopular...

EDIT: Cheaper except that I don't get the game bundles (nor the tax)...
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
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Nope, I keep finding them for less than the 3700X...I guess the TDP has made them unpopular...

EDIT: Cheaper except that I don't get the game bundles (nor the tax)...
Curious as to where you find the 3800X cheaper than the 3700X at?
 

TennesseeTony

Elite Member
Aug 2, 2003
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www.google.com
Ain't nobody got time for dat!

I sincerely hope no one takes offense to this, but it is now part of our 'pop culture', being over 6 years old. The lady went on to make a fair amount of money doing commercials for local businesses, with the tag line "Ain't nobody got time for dat!" (Dentist office, for example, with a long wait for an appointment.)


@UsandThem , ebay of course! :) First one was actually $20 higher, 2nd one only $296, both listed as new. Patience, my young pad-wan, is the key.
 

Assimilator1

Elite Member
Nov 4, 1999
23,476
195
106
You've lost me Tony! Must be a US thing ;)

Btw, I've finally pulled the Trigger, I bought the MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC , 32GB Ballistix 3200 & a Ryzen 5 3600 :), £453 from Ebuyer & Aria (CPU only).

Oh crap, I've just thought, will my PSU be compatible?? Err, I can't remember what it is, a Corsair 650w? Where was I talking about that recently?........
 

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