youth basketball (4th/5th grade)

[IHateMyJob2004]

This gets long so cliffs:
My son keeps telling me that he wants to focus on basketball.
I play basketball (age 39) and absolutely love the idea.
My son isn't great at basketball.
My son is in 4th grade.
My son is not athletic but loves running around.
My son wants to make the travel team next year (5th grade).

He said he will practice daily. I told him this means running also.
My plan:
1) couch25k program. I want him to get to a sub 10 minute mile and hopefully be able to do 3 miles in under 30. I'll be doing this at the local high school track.
2) Basketball drills 6 days a week. Focus is on dribbling and shooting. And in his case, he needs work on rebounding. 30 minutes of drills and then some fun time with dad.

I need any advice other here can give on doing drills on basketball and my plan in general.

I hope to start doing all this in the next few weeks as the winter hell hole disappears.

Long winded version:
My son has decided that he wants to focus on basketball. I am ecstatic over this. He is currently in 4th grade. He does the youth basketball league in town. When travel basketball was organizing we didn't even tell him. He is not the most coordinated kid and couldn't even hit the rim yet. He's a bit behind the curve. But now he can shoot at the basket and have a chance. He is a solid defensive player.

There are probably 200 kids in his grade level. He wants to get on the travel team in 5th grade. I'd guess that 20-30 will try out for travel and they are probably taking 12-15. Just guessing.

I told him that it is no problem to do if he works at it.

Thank goodness that most of what I find online says that you don't start running plays till 5th grade. Up to 5th it is fundamentals.

He just quit karate (which I am not happy about). And he said that he would rather do basketball than soccer.

My plan:
1) He ran the mile in 12 minutes in gym class. Not good. The athletic kids that live on soccer did it in 6 minutes and change.
so ... get him to go to the track 3 days a week and get him on the couch25k program (I did it and it is great) My goal is to get him to run the mile in under 10 minutes and/or get him to a 3 mile run in under 30 minutes.
2) Practice basketball 6 days a week. Do 30 minute practices and then play some 1-1 against me. I need to make this fun though. I want to focus on dribbling and shooting. He needs work on rebounding to.
3) I might start him on weights. Yes, I researched this. Nothing heavy. Just work weights to improve his CNS system

 

[blackdogdeek]

I would focus more on his sprint speed and footwork with something like suicides. That seems much more applicable to the types of running he'd be doing during a basketball game.

Here's some drills I found online:

http://www.stack.com/2012/08/24/basketball-conditioning-drills/

 

[Koing]

I would focus more on his sprint speed and footwork with something like suicides. That seems much more applicable to the types of running he'd be doing during a basketball game.

Here's some drills I found online:

http://www.stack.com/2012/08/24/basketball-conditioning-drills/

This.

Skills and game work will help him out a lot. Have him practice the fundamentals and footwork. You mention he isn't very coordinated so this will usually mean his footwork isn't going to be very good or his change of direction (agility) is going to be poor also.

Being able to shoot well and consistent is a HUGE bonus. That is something he can drill over and over again. Look at his shooting mechanics. Is he setting up properly? Following through with his fingers? Using his other hand to balance the ball? Using his legs and hips to power this shot through his arms and to his fingers?

Suicides are much more specific to the sort of short interval sprints he will need. You can also set up cones to get him to do agility runs. Or just have him chase and shadow after you in a half court to get him use to moving properly. Do this without a ball first and see how he does. When he gets better I'd have him do it with a basketball.

Good luck to your son!

Koing

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I plan on doing suicides once he gets his cardio ability up through long distance running. I think suicides from day 1 would demoralize him.

Definitely going to teach him shooting mechanics. I don't even car much about layups. I plan on working that in after a few weeks though.

Good thoughts on footwork. That will be incorporated.

I hope to start with 5 or so drills that we do daily for a few weeks. Then keep doing those but over less time. Then add drills due to the extra time we have.

I have some practice cones so I'll be bringing those along. I bought a cheap agility ladder a year ago to. Maybe I'll toss that in.

 

[blackdogdeek]

Regarding the long distance running (from my link):

Many players make two huge mistakes when choosing basketball conditioning drills and designing their programs. First, they over-emphasize steady state or slow aerobic cardio. When exactly do you ever walk or jog during a game? We're taught to hussle from day one. So unless you're recovering from an injury, focus on interval training—short bursts of intense work followed by brief rest periods. Intervals are more basketball-specific.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Regarding the long distance running (from my link):

It's hard to do suicides when you can't run for 2 minutes non stop. Suicides will exhaust him.

Yes, by the end of summer I'll have him doing them. Not at the start though.

 

[iluvdeal]

You need to utilize his limited practice time efficiently since you only have so much time per day to practice with him. So for endurance training, ditch the running program. Ditch the weights too as he doesn't need to train that now. He can do strength training later in high school and not miss a beat, getting those bball skills into him now at this early age is what's going to put him ahead later on. As an adult, I can tell whose played bball all their life and who picked it up later. Strength training though you can start in your 20s and still get good results.

So I would focus on skills training first, skill workouts will workout his cardio so you'll take care of that to some degree. For ball handling drills, remember he has 2 hands so don't limit yourself to just working on one hand at a time, that's not efficient. Imagine working out with one dumbbell at a time, why do that when you can work both arms at the same time by using 2 dumbbells? So have him try to bounce a ball in each hand at the same time. Ball handling is neural, the more he does this, the better. Given he's only in the 4th grade, that's a lot of time to develop some really good ball skills.

For cardio, I would just have him sprint the length of a court bouncing a basketball, one way with the right hand, the other way with the left hand, finishing with a layup attempt at each side, so you get 3 for 1 there: dribbling skills, layup, and cardio. I'd also advise lateral motion drills, a lot of stopping on a dime and changing direction, since basketball isn't just about running straight ahead fast.

My story: In grade school, I went from a kid who sucked at basketball and was picked towards the end to being one of the guys picked in the top 3 by just practicing over one single summer. Almost every day I dribbled and shot around at a playground bball court, I didn't have anyone to coach me, just a lot of repetition of dribbling the ball and shooting and pickup games. It's all about repetition. Who do you think is going to be better, the kid whose attempted 1000 shots or the one whose tried 5000 shots? Get your kid those reps in dribbling and shooting, a ball should always be in his hands, get those movements and proper form engrained into his brain, and it will last him a lifetime. I know I can go years without touching a bball, but as soon as I get a ball in my hand, dribbling and shooting is like second nature to me since I played so much as a kid.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

iluvdeal,

I'll incorporate a lot of what you said.

Thing with shooting though, 1000 shots with good form are better than 5000 shots of crap. I learned the crap way and eventually figured out "proper" form on my own. Stupid little things like elbows in and out screw things up. It's better to be taught that from the beginning. Same thing with squaring up properly.

Part of the reason for cardio is also because I am a runner on top of a baller. I'd love for my son to start doing runs with me. From what I have seen (from others his age) it wouldn't take long for him to start outpacing me over longer hauls.

When I was a young kid, I taught myself to juggle and I swear that till this day it has helped with basketball dribbling. It's a fun rainy day activity to do.

I started a plan in word. I have to streamline it because it's at 90 minutes right now. But that is 5 minute run to start. Then stretching. Then skills.

 

[smackababy]

You should really sit him and down explain to him that he has to practice the skills. This won't be fun most of the time. Shooting 1000 shots a day gets old, quick. But, that is what makes you better.

Good hustle will only get you so far. I played every sport in high school and always made the team because I could hustle, but I was only ever good at soccer. I would say I was decent as a DB, but not receiver material because I never worked on my catching.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

You should really sit him and down explain to him that he has to practice the skills. This won't be fun most of the time. Shooting 1000 shots a day gets old, quick. But, that is what makes you better.

Good hustle will only get you so far. I played every sport in high school and always made the team because I could hustle, but I was only ever good at soccer. I would say I was decent as a DB, but not receiver material because I never worked on my catching.

Anyone that is willing to put work in on the defensive end of the court will make a team because they can be impact players. That's what I did when I wasn't as good. I think people appreciated having someone 6'0" that could shut down a good 6'4" center.

Over time, my shot and hands improved. At 39, I have pretty good ball handling and shooting skills and can shutdown fairly well. The legs can't keep up with youth anymore though so covering the point can suck. I used to be able to have people beat me to the hole and I'd block their layups 50% of the time. That was college though.

I intend to sit him down. Already tried to tell him when we practice that my name is not dad, it is coach. But he didn't like the idea. I'm worried that this is going to be one of those things where he likes the idea of something but won't put work in. I have to bake in a reward system. Like Ice Cream once a week if he puts work in all week. But ya, maybe I have to write the practice plan down and sit with him. And tell him that we do them every day.

FWIW: One kid in my high school was uncoordinated as hell and couldn't shoot. But the kid was faster than hell. Top track athlete fast. He made the team mostly because he was good at D, but couldn't do much of anything else. Ugliest layup I have ever seen to this day and he missed layups a lot.

 

[iluvdeal]

I understand wanting to spend time with him running, is he into distance running though? You don't want to force him to do something he hates. Do you have any trails or anything like that you can run with him on? I know for me running around on a circle track bores me to death but running through a trail I get stimulated more by the surroundings.

For bball, I loved it so practicing shooting never got old for me. The only stuff I hated about practice was the suicide drills. I do agree that athleticism and defense can make up for lack of ball handling and shooting skills. I'm not surprised at all juggling improved your ball handling, you trained those neural connections in your brain involved with hand motor skills and ball tracking which dribbling uses.

BTW for ideas on bball drills, there's a wealth of knowledge on youtube, I don't think you'll ever run out of ideas on what to do. Examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCqrWRdgWp0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bvp7yg7gbk

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

For shooting, the best one I found was to stand 2 feet from the rim. And practice squaring yourself, knee bend and follow through. It is a simple drill that teaches form.

I plan on sticking to a set of drills for 2 weeks then swapping out maybe half of them. Actually, I read that you should keep doing them but just spend less time on them.

As for running, I was starting to think that it would be running and footwork at the track. Get the ladder out and do that for 5 minutes. Then 1 lap (1/4 mile). Then a break. And repeat 3 times. That would be half an hour of conditioning.

I still have to iron all this out. We might start tomorrow though. My initial plan was way to much. It was something like 90 minutes. I think I have to start at 60 at most. He is used to 60 minute practices. But I think it would be 40 minutes of drills then 20 minutes of 1 on 1 with me.

5 minute run
5 minute stretch
5 minutes dribbling drill 1 (left hand up, right hand back)
5 minutes dribbling drill 2 (crossovers up and back)
5 minutes shooting drill (above)
5 minutes layups?
Then 2 more drills.

need to start simple on day one.

I'll iron this out ASAP ... I have to. The courts are still snowy so Friday around here (CT) might be wishful thinking.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Ahh, here it is!

source:
http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/coaching/samplepractice2.html

Sample Youth Practice Schedule (Ages 11 to 14)
Here is a sample structure of a practice schedule for a youth team. Of course, this is just a sample and things would be different every day, but this is a basic structure of how a practice may look.

Dynamic Warm Up & Athletic Work - 10 to 15 minutes

This is probably the #1 thing missing from most youth practices. It helps prevent injury, improves performance, and improve athletic ability. What good is a basketball player who is injured or is not athletic enough to utilize the basketball skills developed? The better the player moves, the better the player performs. Why not spend time on it?

There are a lot of players who have tremendous SKILLS, but lacked the ATHLETIC ability to make it to the next level.

Because it is the game of basketball, I do try to include a basketball in the warm up as much as possible. I am going to present two different dynamic warm ups. If you are fortunate enough to have enough basketballs for everybody, we have a basketball-related warm up. For those of you who do not have very many basketballs, we include a warm up that does not require a basketball.

Teaching Skills and Using Fun Drills to Improve Skills - 30 to 45 minutes

The #1 reason kids quit sports is because it's not fun anymore. Youth coaches primary focus should be to teach skills and make it an enjoyable experience! This isn't high school, college, or even PRO basketball, so don't treat your practices like it.

Try the skill-fun drill technique. This means that you teach a skill, then follow up that skill with a fun game or drill to work on the skill. It helps break up the monotony of practice.

Drills & Games to Practice Offense and Defense - 15 to 25 minutes

End of Game Drill - 10 to 20 minutes

Cool down with Light Stretching - 5 minutes

I like the cooldown/strecth at the end

This is largely the same as the 7-10 year old schedual, jsut 20-30 minutes longer. Makes sense.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Watched the boys HS basketball team kill it tonight. Off to the CT state quarter finals on Wednesday (class S). The point guard we have is insane. He dribbles like you wouldn't believe, finds the open man and can shoot the 3 from NBA land. 6' tall. Smart player. One kid tonight overplayed him in the 4th quarter when it was close and he got the kid in foul trouble. Took the kid from 1 foul to 4 fouls in a matter of 2-3 minutes. It was comical. I say it is comical because it is not the first time I have seen him do this.

What's funny is the #2 PG would be a #1 on any other team in the group of local HS teams we typically play against.

I don't know how the #1 is not getting recruited.

Anyway, my kid is getting wicked into basketball. Even shot around for 45 minutes before the game outside. What sucks though. He has a friend in 4th grade that is the "good" basketball player. He is convinced that he will never be that good. Now I have to convince him that he can be better. He doesn't seem to grasp that the reason that the kid is good is because he practices.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Bought this for my son:
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=45280186&cp=4413887.4414024&fg=Size

It's a 27.5" ball and 15% lighter than the typical 27.5" ball.

I've been reading alot about teaching my 10 year old. And I read something astounding. At his age, we should be using a 27.5"ball, not a 28.5. 28.5" is to big for someone 10 years old except for above average size/strength kids). The problem is that they can not typically shoot with proper form at this age with such a ball. The smaller, lighter ball is better for learning proper shooting form. And that's what matters at age 10. The larger ball just reinforces bad habits.

So, I show it to him before bed and he is in love with it. He's psyched. It's easier to catch. Rebounding is going to be way easier. It's win win!

Oh, ages 11 and under should playing 3 on 3. More touches means more dribbling, passing and shooting per player. And at this age, skills are what are important. Also, shooting on a 9 foot rim is preferred for 9-11. The reason is that it is easier to shoot at and thus (drumroll please) it is easier to reinforce proper shooting form.

 

[iluvdeal]

Makes sense youth would be better served using youth size equipment. Do you know if they'll use such a ball and 9ft hoop in games? I'm sure the kids would appreciate it as well as the parents as watching 4th graders struggle with an adult sized ball and rim can't be that fun.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Makes sense youth would be better served using youth size equipment. Do you know if they'll use such a ball and 9ft hoop in games? I'm sure the kids would appreciate it as well as the parents as watching 4th graders struggle with an adult sized ball and rim can't be that fun.

Nope, they do 5 vs 5 and 10 foot rims. This is pretty standard (although wrong). The article I read said what should be done, not what is done. Oh, they do use 28.5" instead of 29.5" balls. They should use 27.5"though.

My son is excited to practice with friends.

Oh, learning to run plays should start in 5th or 6th grade. Anything before that is pure fundamentals.

 

[z1ggy]

Good luck to your son! I was never particularly good at sports until I hit my growth (and I guess coordination) spurt til about 7th grade. Well, I was always good at baseball because I did that from the time I could walk basically. But other stuff didn't really progress til I was like 11-12yo.

Just keep him practicing as much as he can. Now that the weather is getting nicer, he should be shooting hoops and dribbling around outside every day after school.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Just watched Valley Regional win in one of the most insane comebacks I have ever seen. Valley regional is "us".

This team was killing us and could not miss. End of quarter 1 had it at something like 30-8. No joke. This team was not missing. It was demoralizing. We had chances for lay ins that just would not fall.

We slowly chipped away at the lead. Literally, gaining back maybe 4 points per quarter.

We slowly chipped away till the 4th quarter. They were up by 16 or 18 coming into the quarter. In the 4th quarter, they started to do the kill the clock routine. These are 8 minute quarters. Maybe with 4 minutes left we got a 2 or 4 more points on them. So still down 12 or so. I know we were almost to single digits at the 4 minute mark but we just were not there. Now, we did the full court press and trap thing all of the 4th. But with 4 minutes left, we started learning how they were breaking the press and trap and the players adjusted. You could see the defense adjusting on a per player basis. And the winning team did not adjust. They tried the same press/trap breakers. And kept trying to kill the clock. They had chances to score and passed back out to the point.

What this team didn't realize is that we have a kid that I think has shot 75% from the 3 point line this year. He shoots and the expectation is a make, not a miss. This kid shot an NBA 3 from the point on them with maybe 3 minutes left. This was one of those tightly guarded in your face 3s from the triple threat position. And it was decently contested. It dropped. Down by 1 with a minute left he did it again during an inbounds play from the offensive baseline. Up by 2 now with 18 seconds left. Their top guy missed a turn around from 10 feet.

Now, their top guy dropped a turn around from 20 feet out and that was a holy crap this guy has game moment. We saw it in warm ups. 6'6" or so. Perfect shooting form. Great ball handling skills. But he is 6'6" and he can not penetrate. He can't. Big, skilled but has horrible acceleration. But 20 pounds of muscle on this kid and he will be a top D1 pick for college. I hope he knows that. I think he is a senior though. I can see why D1 schools would pass on him. 20 pounds of muscle extra and he would not be skipped.

Anyway. They rebound kicked to the 3 point line after this top player missed. It was at about the 4 second mark. My heart sank because these guys are good. This kid shot up a 3. And I figured it was a 50% make probability. He threw up an air ball. There was still 3 seconds left and they had a player in perfect position to grab the airball and lay it in to tie. This kid must have been demoralized. The last seconds ran off and he was just holding his head in disbelief. He didn't even seem to recognize that if his head were in the game he would have seen the air ballabout to occur when it was half way to the rim. he was oblivious. He quit playing.

Summary ....
At around the 4 minute mark, we had them rattled. I ma pretty sure that we were down by 12. I think the last second air ball was symbolic of this. And their coach tried to kill the clock way to early. If they kept playing their game we would have lost by 20. They changed their game in the 4th to their detriment. I was blown away that when we had them to within 8 and they called a timeout that they kept playing the same game after the timeout. They kept playing the kill the clock game till they were ultimately behind in score.

Back to our top guy. He can ball handle like no ones business. He has crazy stamina. And he has a killer shot. And if he wants to do a layup, you better block it. Because he won't often miss. He is 6'0" I think. We put him on their 6'6" guy after the half. I was happy. I think our coach realized that this phneom can't move side to side. Put a fast gaurd on him and he is F'd. And he was. This kid had no game in the second half. And when he did penetrate, our 6'4" PFs made him adjust his shot. His shot percentage dropped.

It didn't matter but we brought in our 7th man in the last minute. Down by 3 at this time. He is a 6'4" bigger kid. Plays well. Smart player. From the regular season, he doesn't commit turnovers. And when it is in his hands, no one is stealing it. He played center/PF. But no scouting in the world would have told the opposition that this kid can shoot the 3. He is a 7th man that got little time in playoffs. At this point, our guard that can kill the 3 would be tightly guarded. Their coach had to have told his players to contest anything he puts up. This kid was option #2 and I knew it. it didn't matter but I have to point out that our teams success is in large part due to coaching. It's easy to see that a 6'6" kid has good dribbling skills. And he can shoot from anywhere. It takes a coach to say, put the kid 6" shorter than him on him and have the PFs collapse if needed. They were doing a 4 out, 1 in offense. So this tall kid was actually not a center (he's not strong, just tall). Give him the ball 30 feet out all day. He is not getting by a 6' tall kid that is fast and not going to shoot and score from 30 feet. And it worked! (in hindsight I think this tall kid had no court vision. Pressure him and he gets rattled quickly and doesn't see the open man that exists due to the double team).

So, GOOD WORK COACHES! We won because of you.

Oh ,we were down by 3 near the end. We missed a 3. Got the rebound and lay in to take it to us down by 1. we got a 3 to take us up by 2 and that was the end of scoring.