I don't know Yayo, many of the "marriage counselors" I have known or talked with are also PHD's and regular psychiatrists as well....I would much rather consult with someone who has a degree in psychology or at least a psychologist with a heavy background in family counselling than just someone who is not accredited(sp?)...
I don't know Yayo, many of the "marriage counselors" I have known or talked with are also PHD's and regular psychiatrists as well....I would much rather consult with someone who has a degree in psychology or at least a psychologist with a heavy background in family counselling than just someone who is not accredited(sp?)...
It's amazing how many people don't want to put the words "responsibility" in love relationships, but without responsibility and accountability there is no relationship. the feelings of love is really only the smallest part.
the romantics just don't want to accept the more practical aspects of relationships and they basically have mislead a whole segment of the population into believing that this so called "romatic" love is the most important.
it really angers me because it is probably why so many people get divorced.
"Love is an emotion, but people just get it confused sometimes. It's an emotion that takes active participation to maintain, and one that you won't be able to feel all the time. It'll still be there somewhere, just hiding for the moment, covered by all the other ish in your life."
I agree with you, Whisper. However, it would seem like just semantics. You can have people accept this definition, but it won't stop them from wanting the "lust" feeling. The lust feeling is still what they want to keep their relationships going. People divorce 'cuz the lust feeling no longer exists, so they can't be happy.
It isn't the definition that's the problem. It's the attitude and perception.
I agree with you, Whisper. However, it would seem like just semantics. You can have people accept this definition, but it won't stop them from wanting the "lust" feeling. The lust feeling is still what they want to keep their relationships going. People divorce 'cuz the lust feeling no longer exists, so they can't be happy.
It isn't the definition that's the problem. It's the attitude and perception.
Originally posted by: SagaLore
I'm torn between who should get the kids if they split. On one hand, she made the first move and admitted that her marital contract to him is void because her vows meant nothing, don't think it would be a good idea for her to have a kids because she is a horrible role model. On the other hand, this guy admits that he is prone to depression, so he might not be a good parental figure when his wife is gone.
...
This is why marriage needs to be a permanent contract NO MATTER WHAT, once there are kids involved (unless there is abuse involved). The only persons I can feel bad for in this circumstance are the kids.
If you'd like to get technical
read #2 on that list accroding to that dictionary and probablly a billion more. Love is a feeling, an emotion. Not an action. An act of love would be for you to buy your wife flowers out of love. It shows that you love her, you were thinking of her, you took her desire into consideration. His wofe is not a horrible role model, how can you judge someone you've never met, that's RETARDED.
And about your theory about love: If you only FEEL love because of admiration, closeness, enjoyment etc. Wouldn't that be taking your ACTION word and turn it into a FEELING?
Regardless of what you think Love is and what I think love is, individual people have their own take on it and you can argue till you choke and die, but you are not right. Even if you patent that crap, you are still not right.
IMO you have much to learn about love, and until you do, don't go telling others what you think it is.
BTW Dr. Laura suck ass, you more than likely to get a divorce sooner by reading any of her crap then you are to reconcile.
Well maybe that's your problem you need to keep those two separate.
You personally need a psychiatrist because of your own problems (depression) you feel comfortable with psychiatrists because that is what you've been working with most likely with your depression. What you Marriage needs is a family, preferable a Marriage Counselor. Not someone who wants to know you childhood background. You need someone who wants to know your relationship background. Relationship history etc. And definitely not someone who is going to prescribe medications, unless you need it for yourself, (depression) not for help saving your marriage.
I agree Platinum many people only want to focus on the romantic aspect of it, and this is further solidified by movies and media, very few outlets give an accurate portrayal of what true married life is and what I would consider true love to be...I tend to think that love is really appreciation, respect, devotion and commitment all rolled up along with many other feelings and view something like lust as totally seperate...heck I could be physically attracted to a woman on my train ride in by her appearance but I would never categorize that as love however I know many who would..pretty scary to me when I think that some would be willing to just drop a long term relationship because they have lost the feeling of "lust" towards their partner.
Luvly, I agree to a point but what boggles me is that people expect the "lust" feeling to always be there...sure it is a nice thought but in reality it rarely ever happens, lust over anything generally fades with time which is when a relationship will either mature or fail....I would rather have a woman who is a "life partner" that I can talk to openly all of the time, enjoy being with and have a solid foundation rather than having someone who I lust after...granted a combination of the two is the best but it is something I realize isn't possible all of the time....and like I said before I know many who have divorced because the "lust" feeling is no longer there only to discover that it was the worst mistake they ever made in their lives....just as I know many who might not have really liked one another at first (no "lust" at all) but grew closer to one another and love each other more than others and have very solid relationships....it is really IMHO about what you are willing to put into the relationship and how much work you want to devote...it isn't flowers, rosepetals and flighty happy feelings all of the time it is a commitment and if one isn't willing to commit and give it their all then you have a situation like this...
here's the thing. you have to understand what the point of love is in order to understand how to manifest it.
I love my children, but this love for my children means i have to drive them away from me. from the moment of birth the whole purpose of the parent is to separate that child from the parent.
i love my wife, but that love is never completely manifest until 30 or 40 yrs later when one or both of us pass away and we are still together till the end.
those differences in focus means that we should ACT differently.
I love my children, but this love for my children means i have to drive them away from me. from the moment of birth the whole purpose of the parent is to separate that child from the parent.
i love my wife, but that love is never completely manifest until 30 or 40 yrs later when one or both of us pass away and we are still together till the end.
those differences in focus means that we should ACT differently.
I am losing you yayo, keep what two seperate??
I disagree 100% with what you are saying re. psychiatrist/marriage councellor...like I said many PHD's/Psychiatrists/Psychologists spend their entire career and their education preparing and dealing with just family councelling and they specialize in marriage counselling however they also happen to handle standard individual cases as well....I don't know what you mean by "marriage councellors" that are not accredited...the only time I have heard of this is through some religious orginization or the church...personally I would trust a PHD or someone with a background in psychology alot more than someone like this.
Also with re. your response to Sagalore, honestly I wonder how old you are and what type of relationships you have been in, do yourself a favor and check out the forums and the articles on the site which I linked to...it is a real eye opener..."lust" is a feeling "love", "commitment" and turning this into a working marriage are alot more IMHO.
YaYo you and descartes seem to be soo tied into the "dictionary" definition.
Love as a word in Unique. a dictionary definition is NOT nearly sufficient to define this word.
there is a religious context to this word that cannot be dismissed. the word and concept of love is different from culture to culture, language to language and era to era.
to simply take a dictionary definition and use it as if it is ulimate truth is really naive.
Love as a word in Unique. a dictionary definition is NOT nearly sufficient to define this word.
there is a religious context to this word that cannot be dismissed. the word and concept of love is different from culture to culture, language to language and era to era.
to simply take a dictionary definition and use it as if it is ulimate truth is really naive.
I agree 100% platinum, it varies so much from person to person and relationship to relationship...to even attempt to define the word "love" IMHO is pointless and silly...who is to say they really know the true meaning of "love"...I know I am not, I know what love means to me but I also know that it is most likely the furthest thing to what Yayo and Descartes would think of as "love".
PlatinumGold - That's was precisely my point. I was trying to say in a technical sense that according to who ever decided to define it, defined it as a emotional feeling, not an action. I wouldn't label love as either. It to me, is just something inside.
So you are IMO 100% right.
bozack - I think you need to do some research. Psychiatrists and Psychologists are not the same.
They both may do the same number in schooling years but one practices medicine (psychiatrist) the other main study is on, like, human development (psychologist). They start on the same path but end up on different roads. Their professions are completely different.
Psychologists offer marital counseling (as in counseling) family therapy, they can asses you and refer you to a psychiatrist, but they can not prescribe you a medicine like psychiatrist.
So what I'm trying to say is, you need a psychiatrist because you have a history of depression. That is you individually. Your marriage however needs a psychologist = Marriage counselor. You relationship doesn't need to be medicated.
So you are IMO 100% right.
bozack - I think you need to do some research. Psychiatrists and Psychologists are not the same.
They both may do the same number in schooling years but one practices medicine (psychiatrist) the other main study is on, like, human development (psychologist). They start on the same path but end up on different roads. Their professions are completely different.
Psychologists offer marital counseling (as in counseling) family therapy, they can asses you and refer you to a psychiatrist, but they can not prescribe you a medicine like psychiatrist.
So what I'm trying to say is, you need a psychiatrist because you have a history of depression. That is you individually. Your marriage however needs a psychologist = Marriage counselor. You relationship doesn't need to be medicated.
Having had a wife cheat on me and leave, I can understand the pain. But our son was NEVER at risk of being taken away from me, so I have no concept of the FEAR you're feeling. Wow.
Feel free to rant at me if you need to (as others have also offered).
If I was in your situation, I'd first find those passports. Then contact an attorney. Those tickets overseas probably need to be destroyed/returned. Even if she had no intention of staying there, this is an order of magnitude more important than a family trip.
Feel free to rant at me if you need to (as others have also offered).
If I was in your situation, I'd first find those passports. Then contact an attorney. Those tickets overseas probably need to be destroyed/returned. Even if she had no intention of staying there, this is an order of magnitude more important than a family trip.
"it is really IMHO about what you are willing to put into the relationship and how much work you want to devote...it isn't flowers, rosepetals and flighty happy feelings all of the time it is a commitment and if one isn't willing to commit and give it their all then you have a situation like this..."
I so agree with you, Bozack. I wish we had more persons with your point of view. I hope to find someone someday who shares just that view. I always say: Love is arguably a necessary condition, but it's not a sufficient condition. The reason I said arguably a necessary condition was because of the definition understood by the layman/many. Love to many is simply a feeling on its own . . . abstract without any influence of character. You either have that feeling or you don't, in their view. However, in my view, love is indeed a feeling but it's stimulated and simulated by actions. Actions are visible, but actions and the feelings aren't mutually exclusive.
I'm just saying that sadly most think of love as just a feeling independent of actions. They want that type of love and leave when they can't get it. We need to change this perception as a society.
I so agree with you, Bozack. I wish we had more persons with your point of view. I hope to find someone someday who shares just that view. I always say: Love is arguably a necessary condition, but it's not a sufficient condition. The reason I said arguably a necessary condition was because of the definition understood by the layman/many. Love to many is simply a feeling on its own . . . abstract without any influence of character. You either have that feeling or you don't, in their view. However, in my view, love is indeed a feeling but it's stimulated and simulated by actions. Actions are visible, but actions and the feelings aren't mutually exclusive.
I'm just saying that sadly most think of love as just a feeling independent of actions. They want that type of love and leave when they can't get it. We need to change this perception as a society.
Did she never tell you what has made her question this. Did she ever tell you why she even married you if she never loved you. Did she ever tell you when this became apparent to her. Did she ever think about this when you guys decided to have kids. Did you ever ask?
I don't know how many people have said communication was the key to a relationship, but I would think it applies most here. She seems set in her ways to get rid of you and even went so far as to drop the bomb: "I don't think that I ever loved you". I would want to know why, why did she waste 7 years of her life if she thought she didn't love you.
These questions need answers, answers so that you can understand and move beyond this. Whether it means you strengthen your relationship or drift further apart, it means conclusion.
Goodluck to you, Armitage. If I had to list horrible realistic situations that could happen to me in my life, this would be near the top. Giving someone 7 years of my life so that they can turn around and tell me that they never wanted it. Make sure you come out of this stronger and not weaker.
I don't know how many people have said communication was the key to a relationship, but I would think it applies most here. She seems set in her ways to get rid of you and even went so far as to drop the bomb: "I don't think that I ever loved you". I would want to know why, why did she waste 7 years of her life if she thought she didn't love you.
These questions need answers, answers so that you can understand and move beyond this. Whether it means you strengthen your relationship or drift further apart, it means conclusion.
Goodluck to you, Armitage. If I had to list horrible realistic situations that could happen to me in my life, this would be near the top. Giving someone 7 years of my life so that they can turn around and tell me that they never wanted it. Make sure you come out of this stronger and not weaker.
Well, Armitage will not be posting under that name anymore, apparently.
But, he's offered an email address to those interested. PM me for info (and a 500-word essay, double-spaced, on why you're worthy )
Best of luck to ya, buddy!
But, he's offered an email address to those interested. PM me for info (and a 500-word essay, double-spaced, on why you're worthy
)Best of luck to ya, buddy!
"Well, Armitage will not be posting under that name anymore, apparently."
Uhmmmmm. . . .
Do you mean he'll completely stop posting at this forum? Or do you mean we'll be seeing his incognito? Uhmmm. . . . *Shrug!* All right. Best of luck, Armitage.
Uhmmmmm. . . .
Do you mean he'll completely stop posting at this forum? Or do you mean we'll be seeing his incognito? Uhmmm. . . . *Shrug!* All right. Best of luck, Armitage.
this was armitage's second account. he posted that earlier in the thread. he didn't want to associate this story with his original username.
the mods have banned this account as it is a second account.
i got an email also conjur.
Ooops! Thanks for correcting my impression, Platinum Gold. I didn't bother looking at his "joined" date. I presumed he was using his regular account and was a regular member under this nick. My bad! Thanks for the clarification. Maybe next time I'll look at newbies and give them a hard time! I'm just kidding!
Maybe next time I'll look at newbies and give them a hard time! I'm just kidding! Yayo I am fully aware of the differences between Psychiatrist and Psychologist and if you re-read my posts you will see that I suggest that the original poster seek either or as both IMHO can perform the job sufficiently, it just happens that you will not see as many psychiatrists doing family counselling as like you said there generally is no need to prescribe medication in these types of sessions..however that is not to say they don't do the work and do it well...I thought you were referring to someone who had no background in psychiatry who was generally someone who worked through a church or a social group which IMHO would not be a good place to start as I would rather deal with a professional.
Luvly, thanks....honestly I wish there were more people as well who were not always out for the "I" and the "Me" in life and those who were willing to put work into their relationships but alas so many are only concerned with how they feel in the immediate instant that they don't take the time out to consider their life, their relationship and also what the future might hold.....seems like a while ago this person had a feeling they lost, and instead of trying to find out where it went they decided that it wasn't worth the effort and now have given up hope in favor of something new and exciting.....did they fall out of love, were they ever in love...who really knows? I would guess that there had to be love there at one time for the relationship to have progressed as far as it did...oh well I seriously hope the best for the poster.
good luck my friend.. that's the only thing i have to say... never been in such a situation, i can imagine how awful it must be!
Stay strong my friend. I hope that this will work out fine and that you will find greater happiness in the future
Sounds like 7 year itch. That sucks. Contact a lawyer asap, don't let her take the kids out of the country, and consider yourself lucky that she didn't wait to bring this up while you were vacationing in South America.
Azraele
Elite Member
- Nov 5, 2000
- 16,524
- 29
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As much as it hurts to hear this, I think that you're right. She's already made her decision. Consider legal counseling. It may prove helpful. Try to keep the lines of communication as open as possible.
As for you, it's ok to hurt, and to not feel strong. You are facing numerous large changes in your life. Just do your best. No one can do any better than that.
As for you, it's ok to hurt, and to not feel strong. You are facing numerous large changes in your life. Just do your best. No one can do any better than that.
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